[Cjattwood]

...From Windows to Ubuntu Linux (I've dabbled in it before but never full time). I've now got Ubuntu 6.06 up and running as the only OS on my harddrive, and it feels great. Everything works just great, including my MTP (grr) Zen MicroPhoto, after a little trouble. It feels great to finally kick Windows to the kerb and use a secure, free OS. I'm just finishing ripping the last of my CD's to FLAC and am loving AmaroK

 

[JaGWiRE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cjattwood ...From Windows to Ubuntu Linux (I've dabbled in it before but never full time). I've now got Ubuntu 6.06 up and running as the only OS on my harddrive, and it feels great. Everything works just great, including my MTP (grr) Zen MicroPhoto, after a little trouble. It feels great to finally kick Windows to the kerb and use a secure, free OS. I'm just finishing ripping the last of my CD's to FLAC and am loving AmaroK

You sound like a fanboy. Your statement "a secure, free os" is freaking hilarious

. I would recommend gentoo if you plan to be using Linux long-term, and compiling everything from scratch so you get the quickest install possible

.

 

[nomdeguerre]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaGWiRE You sound like a fanboy. Your statement "a secure, free os" is freaking hilarious . I would recommend gentoo if you plan to be using Linux long-term, and compiling everything from scratch so you get the quickest install possible .

Why is the statement "a secure, free os" freaking hilarious? Linux is, obviously, free and more secure than windows

 

[Cjattwood]

I sound like a Fanboy? what did I say that makes you think this? Linux is free, isnt it? (for the most part, excluding Linspire etc), and it's pretty damn secure as far as Operating Systems go, so I'll stick by my comments. I've been using Windows for about 8 years now, you have a pretty warped definition of a fanboy.

 

[Aman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by w1ned Why is the statement "a secure, free os" freaking hilarious? Linux is, obviously, free and more secure than windows

Not Ubuntu!

If you have access to a normal user account, the only thing you have to do in order to gain ROOT ACCESS is to type 'su' into the terminal. That's it. No password required. No special account required. There is no way to get around this idiocy; it's built into the installer. They've completely bastardized sudo for everything it is worth. Could you possibly tell me with a straight face that it's "secure" now?

I have been on the development team of Gentoo. I know what it takes to make a distribution secure. Linux, in its bare-bones "kernel and bootstrap" format, is just as insecure as Windows. That's because Linux is simply a kernel, and a bootstrap install is only a few bare essentials in allowing the computer to boot the kernel properly. Once you actually start adding extra x86 UNIX-compliant software, you start getting more and more secure. Gentoo has such incredible security features, it would make the most paranoid of users salivate. Ubuntu has royally screwed the safety of all their users up the ass by making sure that even a Windows-using script-kiddie could break into Ubuntu (I've tried breaking into an Ubuntu box on a Windows machine - success!

). Gentoo has only had two security faults (in the installer) in the last five or six years, right on par with OpenBSD. And those who know Gentoo know that the installer is simply a basic form of the installation, so a good Gentoo user can rest knowing that their system can only be MORE secure than the LiveCD was.

EDIT: Not to say that Jagwire's post was full of truth. He was incredibly wrong when he said that compiling from source would make the quickest install. It's actually the opposite. Compiling from source can take well over 24 hours on a normal system - but the speed increases and the scalability increases are well worth it. It's a Linux install personalized for your computer. Ubuntu simpy dumps all of its binary crap on your hard drive and then the user must pray that it will work.

 

[JaGWiRE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman Not Ubuntu! If you have access to a normal user account, the only thing you have to do in order to gain ROOT ACCESS is to type 'su' into the terminal. That's it. No password required. No special account required. There is no way to get around this idiocy; it's built into the installer. They've completely bastardized sudo for everything it is worth. Could you possibly tell me with a straight face that it's "secure" now? I have been on the development team of Gentoo. I know what it takes to make a distribution secure. Linux, in its bare-bones "kernel and bootstrap" format, is just as insecure as Windows. That's because Linux is simply a kernel, and a bootstrap install is only a few bare essentials in allowing the computer to boot the kernel properly. Once you actually start adding extra x86 UNIX-compliant software, you start getting more and more secure. Gentoo has such incredible security features, it would make the most paranoid of users salivate. Ubuntu has royally screwed the safety of all their users up the ass by making sure that even a Windows-using script-kiddie could break into Ubuntu (I've tried breaking into an Ubuntu box on a Windows machine - success! ). Gentoo has only had two security faults (in the installer) in the last five or six years, right on par with OpenBSD. And those who know Gentoo know that the installer is simply a basic form of the installation, so a good Gentoo user can rest knowing that their system can only be MORE secure than the LiveCD was.

Heh, thanks for responding for me, I was eating

. Gentoo has some new gui installer, yes? Can you still use the old text mode if it makes you feel leet and uber?

.
Oh, and Ubuntu is a distrubiton, not an OS. (Just making sure nobody mixes them up in the future, because that totally ticks me off.)

Aman : I did not mean the physical install itself will be the quickest, but it will create a quicker installation of Linux when all done.

 

[digitalmind]

Tried Ubuntu, didn't like the terminal and annoying software installs, so I'm back at XP and having no problems at all. Was nice to try it out, but I'll stick with Windows for now.

No, Windows is not safe. Even if I put on a windows password and a bios password, it's too easy to break into it. Bios passwords are easily resetted and so are windows passwords from a bootable cd/disk. I don't care, there's nothing all that important on this pc anyways. If there was, I'd be looking into hardware security rather than software.

 

[Aman]

The new GUI installer is nice, but I always loved Gentoo because of the manual installation it required. You could literally LEARN linux by merely installing Gentoo. Many of my Linux-using friends learned Linux this way. It "prepared" you for using their OS. Too many Linux distributions hold your hand the entire way, and users suffer because of this - it becomes increasingly difficult to take advantage of what Linux has to offer when frontends and hand-holding applications do all of the work.

And now stage 2 and 1 installs are not even supported - makes me think that they had trouble getting donation money. I am no longer on the development team, since I am too busy now, but I have the feeling that they want to be able to satisfy more users by getting rid of some of the options that we once used to have. Stage 1 does not even work in the course of a normal manual Gentoo install.

Sigh.

 

[J-Pak]

Gentoo
http://funroll-loops.org/

 

[JaGWiRE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman The new GUI installer is nice, but I always loved Gentoo because of the manual installation it required. You could literally LEARN linux by merely installing Gentoo. Many of my Linux-using friends learned Linux this way. It "prepared" you for using their OS. Too many Linux distributions hold your hand the entire way, and users suffer because of this - it becomes increasingly difficult to take advantage of what Linux has to offer when frontends and hand-holding applications do all of the work. And now stage 2 and 1 installs are not even supported - makes me think that they had trouble getting donation money. I am no longer on the development team, since I am too busy now, but I have the feeling that they want to be able to satisfy more users by getting rid of some of the options that we once used to have. Stage 1 does not even work in the course of a normal manual Gentoo install. Sigh.

Ah, but can you still use the old installer? No stage 1 and stage 2 will suck

.

 

[jnev]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman Not Ubuntu! If you have access to a normal user account, the only thing you have to do in order to gain ROOT ACCESS is to type 'su' into the terminal. That's it. No password required. No special account required. There is no way to get around this idiocy; it's built into the installer. They've completely bastardized sudo for everything it is worth. Could you possibly tell me with a straight face that it's "secure" now?

that's just not true.. if you type su into the terminal it asks for a password, though because it's not set you can't log in as root. now you can do sudo su and enter your user password, and that will make it so you can stay root without having to use sudo for every command.

I've been using ubuntu for over a year now. it is the only linux distro that just worked for me. it recognized all of my hardware and set everything up the way I like it. I'll admit that yes it is quite slow compared to most distro's, which is why I've been trying new distro's a lot lately, namely gentoo (first tried installing from ubuntu via chroot, messed that install up, then tried the live cd, also messed up install. I'm gonna try it from ubuntu again as soon as I get the time), arch (really nice, but a bit too barebones for me, takes a lot of work to set up the way you want), and debian (horrible hardware detection, but once you get it working it works well).

 

[Aman]

Yes, you have corrected me.

But what you obviously don't realize is that it's the same problem, regardless. The fact remains that if you are in a normal user account, you can gain root access without ever having to enter a root password. That is STUPID! You _NEVER_ do that if you want a secure operating system! EVER!

And, hate to say it, but Debian has one of the BEST hardware detection scripts out there. You must have some strange/foreign/outlandish hardware if this is the case for you. And the Gentoo install isn't hard. The manual tells you to type a bunch of things - if you can type, you can install it. Arch linux is just plain awful.

 

[AlanY]

Just an observation: it seems like the Linux community is very hostile to people just getting into it. This kind of thing seems to happen a lot... a newbie is excited and enthusiastic about their new system, and then people tell him his system is stupid and he should be using another distribution, or a different window manager, or a different filesystem, or whatever. It just seems negative. Why not be happy for the guy? Maybe later he'll explore and use whatever distribution/piece of software you find most appealing. It's not as if there will ever be agreement on which distribution to use anyway. Also, a lot of times the negative comments are inaccurate... the major fight about Ubuntu "sudo" in this thread is a non-issue, since it's based on a misconception that it doesn't require a password. There is decent documentation on how it works:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo
Also, I've found the Linux community to be pretty hostile when asking support questions. People should try to mellow out a bit and try to help newbies rather than aggressively questioning everything they do. The Ubuntu community seems to be better than most in this respect.

 

[rsabo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aman EDIT: Not to say that Jagwire's post was full of truth. He was incredibly wrong when he said that compiling from source would make the quickest install. It's actually the opposite. Compiling from source can take well over 24 hours on a normal system - but the speed increases and the scalability increases are well worth it. It's a Linux install personalized for your computer. Ubuntu simpy dumps all of its binary crap on your hard drive and then the user must pray that it will work.

I have to say, having used both binary distros (ubuntu, slackware), and gentoo on at least two computers (one desktop, one laptop), the speed difference I'm supposed to be getting after compiling all of my packages from scratch is not noticeable by me.
I use gentoo on my desktop, but mostly because of gentoo's other nice features - emerge mostly - rather than some fractional speed increase. Plus stage1 installs are fun

.


AlanY: We're not all like that.

 

[the_villain]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaGWiRE I would recommend gentoo if you plan to be using Linux long-term, and compiling everything from scratch so you get the quickest install possible .

I don't feel, that compiling mozilla for several hours will be faster than installing it from whatever package the distro uses)