[spongeworthy]

I got myself a pair of Q701s almost two weeks ago, and they have been burning in this whole time. I also have an x-fi titanium HD sound card, which from reading around has a decent DAC on it, so I figured i should skip getting an external DAC. Reading around further, suggests that the Q/K701s absolutely need an amp to get the most out of these headphones. From searching around I found 2 or 3 people with the titanium HD said that getting an m-stage made these headphones sound so much better and made them "come alive".
 
I received my m-stage with the OP627A class A biasing mod around a week ago, and I've been letting it burn in the entire time, only turning it off for an hour to let it cool down.
 
To my disappointment, the headphones didn't really benefit at all from the amp, it sounds almost exactly the same as when plugged straight into the sound card. The treble was still a bit harsh although more tamed, and the bass was still thin. Was the headphone out on the sound card already good enough to not warrant an amp? Don't get me wrong, these headphones sound great, although a bit fatiguing, but I didn't really hear any benefit from the amp. Or maybe is my source not good enough?

 

[EinZweiDrei]

which output is fed to the m stage?

 

[spongeworthy]

RCA out from my soundcard to the m-stage.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

I got myself a pair of Q701s almost two weeks ago, and they have been burning in this whole time. I also have an x-fi titanium HD sound card, which from reading around has a decent DAC on it, so I figured i should skip getting an external DAC. Reading around further, suggests that the Q/K701s absolutely need an amp to get the most out of these headphones. From searching around I found 2 or 3 people with the titanium HD said that getting an m-stage made these headphones sound so much better and made them "come alive".
 
I received my m-stage with the OP627A class A biasing mod around a week ago, and I've been letting it burn in the entire time, only turning it off for an hour to let it cool down.
 
To my disappointment, the headphones didn't really benefit at all from the amp, it sounds almost exactly the same as when plugged straight into the sound card. The treble was still a bit harsh although more tamed, and the bass was still thin. Was the headphone out on the sound card already good enough to not warrant an amp? Don't get me wrong, these headphones sound great, although a bit fatiguing, but I didn't really hear any benefit from the amp. Or maybe is my source not good enough?

Quote:

RCA out from my soundcard to the m-stage.

Possible reasons are:
1) The M-Stage doesn't color the sound, it merely "amplifies" what is fed into it, which is what an "amplifier" is supposed to do
2) As to making it sound more "alive," this can be complex. First, it's a broad stroke that many have an idea but cannot really go into the specifics, which means you might just not realize it. Second, maybe the Q701 is not benefitting from the amp's driving power, which happens when the amp is too weak or when the headphones/speakers are very easy to drive. Given the lower impedance and inefficiency of the AKGs, it might not be the second.
3) You probably need to just go for other headphones. For one, an amp cannot just take out those weaknesses that you describe unless you deliberately color the sound with an EQ, like the preference for Class A/B bass boost amps for AKGs. Same thing for the treble - with speakers this can be due to phase issues, with headphones it can be from relative distance to your eardrums, but given those are new I can't assume you just need new pads.

 

[bellsprout]

X-Fi titanium has a good DAC and amp stage and has enough power to drive 701s. I don't think you can do much better than what you have.

 

[spongeworthy]

Quote:

Quote:


Possible reasons are:
1) The M-Stage doesn't color the sound, it merely "amplifies" what is fed into it, which is what an "amplifier" is supposed to do
2) As to making it sound more "alive," this can be complex. First, it's a broad stroke that many have an idea but cannot really go into the specifics, which means you might just not realize it. Second, maybe the Q701 is not benefitting from the amp's driving power, which happens when the amp is too weak or when the headphones/speakers are very easy to drive. Given the lower impedance and inefficiency of the AKGs, it might not be the second.
3) You probably need to just go for other headphones. For one, an amp cannot just take out those weaknesses that you describe unless you deliberately color the sound with an EQ, like the preference for Class A/B bass boost amps for AKGs. Same thing for the treble - with speakers this can be due to phase issues, with headphones it can be from relative distance to your eardrums, but given those are new I can't assume you just need new pads.

 
 
Quote:

X-Fi titanium has a good DAC and amp stage and has enough power to drive 701s. I don't think you can do much better than what you have.

 
Hmm I thought I would hear a substantial difference with the amp, if its sounds about the same, should I consider selling the amp? It seems the headphone out outputs enough volume to satisy me.

 

[Chefguru]

In truth amplifiers do not in my experience typically make a huge difference in sound. There will be a difference if one is not powerful enough for the particular headphone, but outside of that, there shouldn't be much of a difference out of two powerful (enough) solid state amps.
 Tube amps will sometimes make the headphone actually sound different due to coloration (which may or may not actually be a good thing).
 
Having said that, I still believe that certain several thousand dollar amps have their place. Typically the highest end amplifiers are tube amps that have been well designed to allow for that coloration to improve upon a matching sound signature. The beta-22 is more or less considered the best solid state dynamic headphone amplifier, and the difference between it and the M-stage is more than less a function of how well it can power a headphone.
 
 
 
 

 

[megamagic]

Quote:

X-Fi titanium has a good DAC and amp stage and has enough power to drive 701s. I don't think you can do much better than what you have.

I think this is correct. In this case the M-Stage simply serves to modify the resulting sound signature rather than provide power to drive the cans.
 
 

 

[bellsprout]

Quote:

I think this is correct. In this case the M-Stage simply serves to modify the resulting sound signature rather than provide power to drive the cans.
 
 

 and AFAIK, M-Stage doesn't colour the sound very much.
 
The effect of amps is exaggerated quite a bit. Unlike headphones, a properly designed amp can have a ruler flat frequency response and very low amounts of distortion, so there's not much difference, if any, between amps if they are properly designed, aren't trying to colour sound (i.e., tube amps), and are properly level and impedance matched.
 
And audiophile sound cards like X-fi Titanium or Essence STX are imo one of the best purchases you can make for your PC. The fact that you get a DSP, DAC, amp, digital and analogue outputs and the whole she-bang at under $200 really puts other dedicated equipment to shame.

 

[megamagic]

Quote:

 and AFAIK, M-Stage doesn't colour the sound very much.
 
The effect of amps is exaggerated quite a bit. Unlike headphones, a properly designed amp can have a ruler flat frequency response and very low amounts of distortion, so there's not much difference, if any, between amps if they are properly designed, aren't trying to colour sound (i.e., tube amps), and are properly level and impedance matched.
 
And audiophile sound cards like X-fi Titanium or Essence STX are imo one of the best purchases you can make for your PC. The fact that you get a DSP, DAC, amp, digital and analogue outputs and the whole she-bang at under $200 really puts other dedicated equipment to shame.

Well I guess it depends what you compare it too. Mine did have dual OPA627 class a bias when I got it though, so I never did try the stock op amp. Maybe that made the difference.
 
But compared to my Yulong A100 or Audinst HUD-MX1 it definitely sounds slightly darker overall. Not saying that's a bad thing, it actually sounds quite good in certain setups.