[afphreak]

recently, my father passed down his old turn table setup to me, and even though its not audiophile quality, i've really been enjoying it

its a Kenwood direct drive KD-40R with an Audio Technica 70L cartridge(from what i can tell, theres no number on it, and it looks like this), plugged in through the phono-in on a Pioneer SX-880 receiver, then usually to my Grado SR-60s

after playing around with this setup for a couple of months, re-buying my favorite albums on vinyl and re-listening to them, i've decided i want to move further down the vinyl trail

but i'm lost at where i should start... get a true phono pre-amp? upgrade the table or cart? lose the pioneer and go with a tube amp?

 

[afphreak]

i should add, on the pioneer receiver, the FM signal is starting to bleed across the board, if i turn up the volume enough while its on the phono-in or aux-in, i can make out what the DJ is talking about or lyrics to songs, so i'll definitely be switching out the receiver eventually

 

[Herandu]

Everyone has their own idea on where to start. Mine would be along the lines of a moving coil cartridge and a MC pre-amp. Everything else being equal, you'll hear instant improvements, guaranteed.
Don't mess about with the SX-880. It;s bigger brother, the SX-1250 is still THE most fearful receiver I have ever heard. Dynamic range, slew rate, load handling: it has it all. The SX-880 is the same, just smaller. Leave that till last. i am not sure if it has a dedicated MC phono input, but if it does, don't rush out to buy a MC pre-amp. Just try it with a MC cartridge 1st.
Granted, the KD-40R is a starter pack kind of TT on the DD front. Decide if you want direct drive or belt drive 1st. Many (all?) on head-fi preach belt drive. I use both, and for good reasons. After having owned more than 50 odd pieces of audio equipment over the last 3 decades, I learnt not to rush into buying something until I had personally found the faults and shortcomings of what I already owned.

 

[Herandu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by afphreak /img/forum/go_quote.gif i should add, on the pioneer receiver, the FM signal is starting to bleed across the board, if i turn up the volume enough while its on the phono-in or aux-in, i can make out what the DJ is talking about or lyrics to songs,

That is not unusual with even stand alone phono pre-amps, especually when you live close to a radio station. There are a number of solutions for this problem. I have to ask a radio amateur friend of mine about it again. He has done some experiments on this.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by afphreak /img/forum/go_quote.gif its a Kenwood direct drive KD-40R with an Audio Technica 70L cartridge(from what i can tell, theres no number on it, and it looks like this), plugged in through the phono-in on a Pioneer SX-880 receiver, then usually to my Grado SR-60s after playing around with this setup for a couple of months, re-buying my favorite albums on vinyl and re-listening to them, i've decided i want to move further down the vinyl trail but i'm lost at where i should start... get a true phono pre-amp? upgrade the table or cart? lose the pioneer and go with a tube amp?

I wouldn't think the arm on this table is really upto an MC cart. I'd tend to go for something like the new Ortofon 2M which is about 99USD from needledoctor.com as a good modern state of the art MM which should be a revelation compared to your old AT.

There are plenty of tweaks you can do also, like mounting the table on a decent wall shelf if you have wooden floorboards or a proper stand with spike feet if it's on a concrete floor. KABUSA also sell some special isolation feet which will improve the soundstage further. They also sell the heavy Technics rubber matt which may be better than the one it comes with, giving superior damping to reduce the ringing of the platter.

Changing the headshell if possible for a magnesium one like an ADC off ebay or one of the modern Stanton HS-4 ones is also worth trying.

But really this is a fairly standard 70s direct drive table so beyond this you are really looking at upgrading to either a better vintage deck like a Thorens TD150/160 belt drive or a better direct drive which allows for tonearm upgrades like the Technics SL120/150. Or you could go for a modern belt drive deck from the likes of Rega or Pro-Ject, or else upgrade a new Technics SL1200 with a Rega tonearm.

The reciever you have is pretty high-end as Herandu says so perhaps you should look into getting it serviced for a few hundred bucks as finding something better today will cost quite a bit more.

 

[afphreak]

wow, thanks for the info, i was looking into getting a thorens off ebay before i posted this thread, only thing keeping me from biting the bullet is how its shipped... i've heard horror stories of mis-packed TTs getting destroyed in shipping.

i'll look into the cartridge, and i never realized that you could switch out headshells, pretty cool

as far as positioning goes, i'm pretty sure i have my TT in the worst possible place right now.... on top of a glass L-shaped computer desk(with the computer on the other side at least) on carpet, mainly for the reason as i use the receiver to pick up the audio-out on my PC as well, because i got tired of going behind the PC to switch out between headphones and speakers.

though, i do have some shelf space on an old book shelf on the opposite side of the room that i could move everything to...

 

[hciman77]

Quote:

Originally Posted by afphreak /img/forum/go_quote.gif wow, thanks for the info, i was looking into getting a thorens off ebay before i posted this thread, only thing keeping me from biting the bullet is how its shipped... i've heard horror stories of mis-packed TTs getting destroyed in shipping.

Indeed, and turntables like the Thorens do need very careful and intelligent packing, many ebay sellers say they will pack stuff carefully but when my
2nd TT arrived this very careful packing included wrapping it in a thin blanket and shipping inside a box just big enough for it with Platter and counterweight and headshell still attached

. If you do get a TT shipped you might want to offer the seller a few bucks more to either have it professionally packed or spell out how you want it packed. Note if you properly double-box a TT you are probably into the oversize box category which makes shipping expensive. When I recently shipped a toy Dalek (5lbs weight) double-boxed UPS were going to charge me $56

Quote:

as far as positioning goes, i'm pretty sure i have my TT in the worst possible place right now.... on top of a glass L-shaped computer desk(with the computer on the other side at least) on carpet,

I have the same issue. While suspended subchassis designs are a bit better for isolation some extra isolation may be a good idea. I have been eperimenting with Sorbothane balls but even with these a slight tap on the table is quite definitely feedback back through the cart.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by afphreak /img/forum/go_quote.gif wow, thanks for the info, i was looking into getting a thorens off ebay before i posted this thread, only thing keeping me from biting the bullet is how its shipped... i've heard horror stories of mis-packed TTs getting destroyed in shipping. ...

http://www.vinylnirvana.com/ar_gallery_damage.shtml indeed

this is the basic method http://www.audio-services.com/turntable_shipping.htm


Quote:

Originally Posted by afphreak /img/forum/go_quote.gif i'll look into the cartridge, and i never realized that you could switch out headshells, pretty cool ...

so you can have a different cart for playing mono records for instance. Generally a magnesium headshell is lower mass and more rigid so it can improve the sound slightly or allow matching to different types of carts. Also changing the lead out wires to new gold plated ones and cleaning the pins with de-oxit or something similar will improve the signal quality a bit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by afphreak /img/forum/go_quote.gif as far as positioning goes, i'm pretty sure i have my TT in the worst possible place right now.... on top of a glass L-shaped computer desk(with the computer on the other side at least) on carpet, mainly for the reason as i use the receiver to pick up the audio-out on my PC as well, because i got tired of going behind the PC to switch out between headphones and speakers. though, i do have some shelf space on an old book shelf on the opposite side of the room that i could move everything to...

Computers vibrate a lot so this is making life very hard for your turntable alright. Remember what it's trying to do is pick up tiny vibrations on your vinyl so by feeding it loads of background vibrations in effect you are muddying up the sound. If you put an upside down glass on your desk and put your ear against it to listen to the sound coming from it you will probably hear your hard drives!

The single biggest upgrade you can probably make therefore is a better support for the turntable. I'd do this before you spend any money on anything else.

If your floor is concrete under the carpet then putting it on piece of furntiture preferably with spiked feet I (you can buy these separately) is fine. If you have floorboards then a wall mounted shelf is the way to go. There are special Hi-Fi ones http://www.audioadvisor.com/products.asp?dept=123 but a bookshelf is ok so long as it's not picking up footfalls etc from the floor.

 

[nickrobotron]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Herandu /img/forum/go_quote.gif Don't mess about with the SX-880. It;s bigger brother, the SX-1250 is still THE most fearful receiver I have ever heard. Dynamic range, slew rate, load handling: it has it all. The SX-880 is the same, just smaller. Leave that till last. i am not sure if it has a dedicated MC phono input, but if it does, don't rush out to buy a MC pre-amp.

The SX-880 is not the little brother to the SX-1250. The SX-880 is the little brother to the SX-980, 1080, 1280, and 1980. It's a couple years newer than the 50 series (SX-850, 950, 1050, and 1250). The 80 series Pioneers are still very great machines. It has a wonderful phono input. Leave it! 60 wpc is a nice sized receiver for what you're using it for!

Please do not rush out and by a MC pre-amp. Moving Coil cartridges are not your next step! If the table, cartridge, and amp all work properly, just focus on getting it set up properly. After that, consider a new cartridge (if you really like the table). All kinds of cartridges can be found at www.needledoctor.com

With a great amp and speakers (don't know what you're using for speakers, but your Grados will work), you seriously just need to focus on a nicer turntable, or working with what you have. Go sign up at AudioKarma.org and ask those guys. It's the most helpful forum. Great, GREAT guys.

 

[nickrobotron]

Quote:

Originally Posted by afphreak /img/forum/go_quote.gif i should add, on the pioneer receiver, the FM signal is starting to bleed across the board, if i turn up the volume enough while its on the phono-in or aux-in, i can make out what the DJ is talking about or lyrics to songs, so i'll definitely be switching out the receiver eventually

Very common when using headphones! I bet the problem wouldn't exist through your speakers. You can fix this problem two ways. Move your tuning needle all the way to one side so no stations are being picked up, or plug a headphone amp into your Tape Monitor 1 OUT.

You might be disappointed when your new amp does the same thing. If you do decide to get another amplifier, you should stick with vintage. I suggest the larger Kenwood receivers. They are a real steal right now. Again, AK would be really helpful to you.

 

[lini]

afphreak: Your problem is the AT-70L. I'd suggest to mount at least something in the class of an AT-120E (which, btw, can be further upgraded by better needles (ATN-125LC, ATN-130E...).

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini

 

[nickrobotron]

There's a Dual expert in Texas. If I lived anywhere near him, I'd buy a turntable without even giving it a second though.

 

[afphreak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by memepool /img/forum/go_quote.gif The single biggest upgrade you can probably make therefore is a better support for the turntable. I'd do this before you spend any money on anything else. If your floor is concrete under the carpet then putting it on piece of furntiture preferably with spiked feet I (you can buy these separately) is fine. If you have floorboards then a wall mounted shelf is the way to go. There are special Hi-Fi ones http://www.audioadvisor.com/products.asp?dept=123 but a bookshelf is ok so long as it's not picking up footfalls etc from the floor.

yep, carpet over concrete floors, i happen to have a little coffee table in the garage somewhere with spike posts, i'll have to dig that thing out this week

 

[afphreak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickrobotron /img/forum/go_quote.gif The SX-880 is not the little brother to the SX-1250. The SX-880 is the little brother to the SX-980, 1080, 1280, and 1980. It's a couple years newer than the 50 series (SX-850, 950, 1050, and 1250). The 80 series Pioneers are still very great machines. It has a wonderful phono input. Leave it! 60 wpc is a nice sized receiver for what you're using it for! Please do not rush out and by a MC pre-amp. Moving Coil cartridges are not your next step! If the table, cartridge, and amp all work properly, just focus on getting it set up properly. After that, consider a new cartridge (if you really like the table). All kinds of cartridges can be found at www.needledoctor.com With a great amp and speakers (don't know what you're using for speakers, but your Grados will work), you seriously just need to focus on a nicer turntable, or working with what you have. Go sign up at AudioKarma.org and ask those guys. It's the most helpful forum. Great, GREAT guys.

i dont like rushing out and getting anything with out research first, hence this post

, i'm not losing the pioneer anytime soon, family would kill me, that thing's got history lol...

i mainly use grados with this set up, basicly because the speakers i got plugged into the receiver are a couple of junk audiovox speakers i found at a garage sell(hey, i needed some at the time

), and i just dont like the sound of i get out of the system with my beyers for some reason, dunno why...

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by afphreak /img/forum/go_quote.gif yep, carpet over concrete floors, i happen to have a little coffee table in the garage somewhere with spike posts, i'll have to dig that thing out this week

That should work fine. You're lucky to have concrete floors as they are the best platform for a turntable apart from perhaps marble

The spikes are just to go through the carpet so the table is sitting straight on the concrete.