[Sonic Atrocity]

 
As of late I am doing some research on new headphones. AFAIK a flat frequency response will bring me the greatest fidelity (ie: hearing what the artist and producer want me to hear). I actually made a thread on this that got quite a few replies (http://www.head-fi.org/t/506000/headphones-flat-fr-low-sibilance-fidelity). My most important concern is what some of have said about pop music – that it is produced with the concept in mind that it will be listened to on bass heavy systems to bass is lessened to make up for it. But I am concerned mostly that this is also applied to other music (that I listen to more often) like metal, rock and industrial.
You see, I want flat frequency response headphones so that I can start listening to classical music. I am very intrigued by it. But I wonder if it would actually give me less fidelity regarding metal, rock and industrial. Though, I’d think one would be hard pressed to believe that considering so the great diversity in frequency response makeups from headphone to headphone. 
 
Now, if I do want to get a pair of flat headphones I also want to bear in mind my amp in source. I am currently running on a Sansa Clip+ (Rockboxed) and am very aware of its ruler flat frequency response. So, that is one check mark off the list. But I am most concerned about my PA2V2 and how it might affect my frequency response. I have read around that the PA2V2’s warm presentation is accompanied by a thick, punchy-bass and a mid-centric character. I’d think that I want to use an equalizer to make up for this. 
 
But I don’t want to go as far as buying different headphones to accommodate the PA2V2 but instead using an equalizer to accommodate the PA2V2 and (in time) upgrading to a better and flatter amp (I use a portable because I’m on the go. But I am not worried about using my headphones on the go nearly as much as I am concerned about using them while sitting at home). 
 
I am currently using the Pro 900 and have the highest and lowest frequencies attenuated by 7.5 decibels. I love the clarity and transparency of the Pro 900 but I know they heavily colour my sound. They are also really sibilant and listening is painful. I can at times solve it by further attenuating and rolling off my highs but then I actually lose a lot of detail (it seems). 
 
Right now I’m looking at the Denon AH-D5000 and AH-D7000. I’ve read that the D5000 (the one I am leaning towards a little more) is a bit too bassy and that the bass is a bit muddy. This of course concerns me (I care about the entire frequency range!!). But I’ve also read that they’re used as reference cans. Crazy contrast. 
 
Now, I’ve read that a lot of cans will have a mid/upper-bass hump and a bit of accentuation in the midrange to mimic that of reference monitors in a room designed with proper acoustics – is this a correct understanding? Futhermore, I read a critique from a fellow head-fier claiming that there experience with reference monitors and reference headphones has been greatly different regarding the bottom end. They said that reference monitors, while of course flat, have a very present bottom end while reference headphones do not. Hence, he felt that reference headphones did not accurately portray the bottom end of the frequency spectrum. What are your thoughts on this?
 
I look forward to your responses and love the discussions on this site! 

 

[DVDRey]

If you want a "flat headphone", don't buy a D5000/D7000, but rather lead you to an HD600. (also replace your amp).
 

 

[Sonic Atrocity]

Not sure I'm in much of a position to replace my amp right now. What do you know about the PA2V2? I'm just interested to know so then I can make up for it somehow.
 
Edit: Bear in mind that I want a good soundstage, lots of detail, and all the things that make a good headphone. Plus, I think I want closed headphones... but am not married to the idea.

 

[MalVeauX]

Heya,
 
Get the D5000. Yes, it's bassy, but it's not muddy to me, dunno where someone got that. I play some low tones in music and pure tones generated from audacity and it's a very tight clean sound, decay is good, recovery is good. It doesn't have the recessed mids of the D2000 and it's a very nice relatively flat response and isn't overly bright, it's a warmer more cozy sound than the D2000 too. Plus, it just looks nice (hey, it matters when you're dropping $$$ on something, with sweet polished mahogany woodback and a nylon cable). It will roll perfectly into place for you, completely replacing the PRO900 (it's what I did, which is why I'm even going on about the D5000, it's what the PRO900 would have liked to have been, at least to me). It doesn't need any more amplification than you can already provide it. It's closed. You can travel/walk with it. It's very comfortable. Going from the PRO900, you'll be quite surprised at what mids actually sound like. Is it completely flat? No, it's not. And you won't find that even in the high-ends. Pure ruler flat presentation is just not physical happening with a limited budget, even in the thousands. Everything has some color to it, to an extent. I would suggest you consider more of upgrading to a nice quality DAC before you worry about an amp if you plan on dropping some money on some very good headphones (regardless of which you get) and ensure your media you're playing is lossless and of the highest quality possible (and simply good recordings, a high sampled, lossless, but poorly recorded track sounds like crap no matter how high resolution it is).
 
Very best,

 

[Sonic Atrocity]

But like... if they're bassy shouldn't that be a concern? I mean, especially with my PA2V2 considering it has been said to have a "punch" in the bass and very "forward" mids. I don't want to have to EQ my sound a whole lot, ya know? 
 
All I do with my Pro 900 is EQ them. Hell, my low and high ends are taken down a solid 7 decibels! 

 

[MalVeauX]

Quote:

But like... if they're bassy shouldn't that be a concern? I mean, especially with my PA2V2 considering it has been said to have a "punch" in the bass and very "forward" mids. I don't want to have to EQ my sound a whole lot, ya know? 
 
All I do with my Pro 900 is EQ them. Hell, my low and high ends are taken down a solid 7 decibels! 

Heya,
 
I would be less concerned with an amp having a miniscule amount of color added to a signal, and more worried about simply getting a good headphone. The reason you have to EQ your PRO900's bass down is because the mids are so low and recessed. If they were up around where the bass was, and the treble is, they'd be flat actually. But it's nice to have a headphone that can actually hit and hold 30hz without it being an issue.
 
If you want to start as neutral/flat as you can in the mid-tier (and not counting high-end and IEM options), some suggestions: look into the Fischer Audio FA-003 (and FA-002), Beyer DT880, Sennheiser HD600, Hifiman HE-300, Shure SRH840, AKG Q701 and K272 HD, Audio Technica AD900. Some have some variation in bass coloring (as in, lack it), but are otherwise a relatively neutral bunch. The rest is details and preference.
 
Very best,
 

 

[colmustard]

I'm with Malveaux in that I recently sold my pro 900's for the d5000's. My impressions match his pretty much exactly. Certainly the 900s are much "funner" to listen to, they have a very aggressive in your face type of sound. But the d5000 has the natural tonality that was just flatout missing from the 900s. Also something I've noticed is that the d5000's mid bass isn't very exageratted like in the 900s, but rather it's the sub bass that is really out there. Even still these are the first closed headphone's I've heard that actually sound natural when listening to accoustic tracks.
 
I'm not endorsing the d5000s as your next purchase but am certainly letting you know that they are a step up from the 900s if your looking for something that doesn't sound as electronic.

 

[EYEdROP]

I can tell you metal and rock sound great on the DT48. They taught me that fidelity and uncolored means portraying the good and ugly in recordings. Colored headphones sometimes sound more pleasing and can be more satisfying but in a different way then uncolored. Uncolored phones are good for listening work. Colored is good for listening fun. There is high end on both sides, both unique in presentation. And there is also a middle ground, adding just enough color to sound nice but remain relatively transparent.  
 
The DT 48 are uncolored in the sense that they sound like a raw uncolored headphone, not a headphone that sounds like flat refrence speakers. So technically, for a headphone, they are portraying the bass in recording accurately down to 65hz. You ever heard a loudspeaker with tweeters that can hit 30hz? The engineers and beyer didn't bother. It dosent portray the bass correctly if you expect loudspeaker emulation. You simply get accustomed to it.
 
Why try to emulate speakers when the design and sound advantages of headphones has to be compromised? People aren't used to hearing 2 speakers strapped to the head. I can't really recommend the DT48 unless you are ready to force yourself to like them. Once it clicks, theres nothing like the DT48.  
 
On a side note, I would not mind a pair of headphones that emulate a nice flat pair of reference speakers in a perfect room. But the DT48 are not that.

 

[Sonic Atrocity]

Yeah, I'm definitely looking to get a pair of cans that emulate loudspeakers. I was at one point interested in the DT48 but if it is bass shy, meaning; it isn't a true flat response then I'm not interested in it. Or am I not understanding something???
 
Another thing about the DT 48E that worries me is that I've heard it has a very, very narrow sound stage and poor instrument separation. I consider these to be integral components in the listening experience. 
 
Right now I am quite set on the Fisher Audio FA-003. From what I've read these are very flat, have a great sound stage likened to that of open cans and that they aren't bass shy. Again, I want to emphasize that I don't see "flat" cans like the K701 as being entirely flat being that the bass response is so attenuated. I've never heard them but they seem to me like a cheap shot at higher register detail from what I've read. 
 
I'm also in the market for a portable amp that is also flat/neutral. Apparently the Porta Corda MKIII (or 2?) is fairly flat. Any suggestions in this arena? Oh, I know that a desktop amp will give me better bang for my buck but I really want a portable setup. It's a lot more conducive to my lifestyle.

 

[rezel]

Anything you particularly dislike about the Senn HD600? They appear to be a perfect fit for you and many companies still use this headphone for their benchmark neutral headphone.

 

[Sonic Atrocity]

They are open cans and that wouldn't be suitable for me on the go. Even though I do most of my listening at home I do live in a student residence. I have a private room but I still worry that people will be able to hear the sonic presence of my open cans which will be perceived as tinny and thus annoying. Otherwise those cans would be great. I have read nothing but good things about them. 
 
I wouldn't be surprised if I got those in the future. I really have developed a philosophical disposition to that of coloured gear. 

 

[Sonic Atrocity]

What do you guys think of the Fischer Audio 003? It'd cost me about $208 (excluding shipping and duty). From what I've read they're flat. Any opinions?
 
PS: Would wooden cups add to or take away from fidelity?

 

[Sonic Atrocity]

And what about a flat FR portable amp???