VOX: Mac OSX Music Player

[cleg]

Well I have everything turned off and it's running in 'hog-mode' but the sound is noticeably darker and less airy than JRiver in hog-mode.

looks like "set to zero" doesn't mean "turned off" for Vox, unfortunately. they are making some refactoring in sound-related code, so I hope we'll get better sound in future

 

[Kane Williams]

All music playback systems should offer a direct, unprocessed output. Not happy to hear Vox has internal processing that can't be defeated.

 

[kimvictor]

All music playback systems should offer a direct, unprocessed output. Not happy to hear Vox has internal processing that can't be defeated.

Well, it's not officially confirmed. It could be that JRiver is messing with the output. Who knows. Let's see if Coppertino has anything to say about this.

 

[Solrighal]

I have everything off in JRiver. Bit-perfect mode. Still, it could be JRiver but I think it's unlikely.

 

[Kane Williams]

Coppertino are usually very helpful and responsive. However, one guy I was speaking to was not aware that DoP was native DSD over PCM frames until I told him. This is not a dig or anything, just pointing out that the person who answers your emails MAY not know all the technical details of Vox and may say no processing takes place when in fact it does?

 

[Kane Williams]

Wonder if Onkyo HF player will ever be available for OSX.

 

[DarthFader]

I'm curios in what circumstances you chose to playback something with Vox and in what circumstances you chose something else?

Usually, I tend toward Vox for aesthetic reasons. For example: if I'm on my laptop and don't want a music player cluttering up my screen while I work on other material. But it falls behind for me on organization—if I really want to dig in to my music library, that's where programs like JRiver shine.

 

[Kane Williams]

I asked my contact at Coppertino about the technical details of Vox and here is the relevant part of his response:
 
Your question - does VOX introduce EFX/EQ. The answer is it does, but only if You enable it. Otherwise than this, it tries to keep audio path as clean and processing - free as possible. There's no hidden EQ or enhancing, we just decode file to 32-bit floating - point data and send it to system's device. If re-sampling required - we do it very gently, using 32-point sinc interpolation, and that may be avoided by Sample Rate Sync option. That'd be bit-perfect playback up to 24 bits.
When data are sent to device which does not support 32-bit float sample format internally, these data will have to be converted to a supported sample format (typically, 24 -bit integer), and that's where bad things may come into play, however, that's only my assumption, for I am unable to hear the difference. And I am a sound engineer with 12 years of experience in live sound/studio.

So as for technical information - the system is playing audio for us. Files are decoded by their native decoders and Core Audio (Mac OS X audio engine) is used for playback. In case of mp3, m4a, ALAC, AAC, WAV, AIFF, CA formats, files are decoded also by Core Audio. Currently we use BASS audio library to help manage data flow and control between player and Core Audio. BASS is known to be fast, clean and byte - transparent audio library. BASS handles file reading and decoding and sends it to Core Audio. Using BASS we are able to control where the processing takes place and how helpful / harmful it is. 

Typically those good guys who blame the sound are using players that use so called "integer mode" which allows to bypass almost all links of system audio chain, as You correctly wrote,  to decode file and send it straight to the device without conversion involved, effectively bypassing most of the goodies of Core Audio. But integer mode inherently excludes all of this stuff our users wanted us to add: effects, eq, crossfade / smooth fades, software volume control. IM is for expensive DACs, so usual listeners won't really benefit from it. I will tell You more - built-in soundcards in today's macs support float 32-bit mode natively so may even sound better than some DACs that mostly do not support it.
 
Integer mode also requires to load a file fully into memory before playing, to minimise the RF and power voltage impact of a working hard disc. That's also a problem with large files and small memory footprints - I would keep reading file from HD even if some virtual (unnoticed to me) RF of power pulses are having place. That' good enough for me but might not be enough for You. But I will tell You more - one day they will tell that reading from memory also makes voltage fluctuate, we need to read files from CPU's cache directly. That'd be fun to make real!

Integer mode fans will never listen mp3's, however, we think VOX should play them.
 
So that's really serious question wether VOX should support Integer Mode - which hopefully makes VOX jump from "very good sound" to "absolutely good sound" for the price of having to spend lots of time adding and supporting it and making useless  lots of stuff we did previously. However VOX has some Integer Mode attributes - Sample Rate sync that allows to bypass re-sampling and Hog Mode which makes device solely available for the app, effectively bypassing system mixer.
 
Regarding the sound quality, I think You should always rely on what You hear personally.
 
Regarding DoP - there's issue with this on mac since BASS currently requires ASIO in order to do this, however, we continue searching for solution.

 

[Solrighal]

That's an interesting response right there. I use integer mode in JRMC but only because I've read it's the way to go. I'll have a play around with that later & see what difference it makes.

 

[Kane Williams]

Coppertino say IM is expensive to implement but may be added (or separate app for it developed) if they start to make some money to fund it from upcoming projects!

 

[Solrighal]

I've tried integer mode back & forth this afternoon and I'm not sure I hear any difference at all. I may be deaf.

 

[Kane Williams]

Well, Coppertino say the same thing that you'd be hard pushed to hear any difference.

 

[Solrighal]

Yeah, it's strange. There's a definite difference in sound between Vox & JRMC but perhaps it's something that's happening in JRiver that makes the difference. When I get home tonight I'll install Vox again and try to test things more rigorously.

 

[Kane Williams]

Well JRiver will have Integra Mode and Vox doesn't. Try to use the Sync sample rate option on Vox and try without and see which sounds best. Suez your DAC support 32 bit floating point processing, if not, then Vox will convert to a 24 bit version, so there is an extra stage if conversion I think.

 

[Solrighal]

I'm using an ODAC but I don't know what that's capable of.