[werdwerdus]

I have a Garrard 1211 semi-automatic turntable (a crappy turntable riding on the tails of what used to be a good brand), and a Grado Black p-mount cartridge. I'm using the phono stage built into my Sansui G-5500 stereo receiver, and listening through speakers or with the tape out to my HeadFive. When I'm listening to records, there is usually some very audible distortion. This is most apparent during the last ~third of each side of the record. An example is yesterday I was listening to Pink Floyd - "Animals", and the most obvious thing to me at the end of the sides was the vocals sounding really bad. What should I try doing to pinpoint the problem? I've cleaned the records and got the brand new Grado cartridge (I had a used AT T4P cart until Tuesday), but this distortion remains. My first thought was that the phono stage is distorting, or just the amplifier in the receiver, but it also distorts when I listen with my HeadFive on the tape out. Keep in mind that I can't adjust anything since this is a P-mount cartridge... I have a couple other stereo receivers that I could try the phono stages, but they are currently in used and would be a pain to swap out. That would be the last thing I would want to do if possible.

I'm thinking about just getting the Music Hall MMF-2.1 turntable and MMF Phono Pack. Is this a good turntable for the money? (I found it for $299 for the TT and $99 for the phono stage).

Thanks in advance. I've really been enjoying the sound of vinyl so far, despite the distortion. I really like the analog sound compared to the CD sound. I'm not claiming that it's better, just that's it's different and I like it. The Rush albums that I have just sound so good, mainly Permanent Waves! As well as the Alan Parsons, Pink Floyd, ELP, ...

 

[derekbmn]

Do a search (google) on "inner groove distortion". You will find the many causes.

 

[werdwerdus]

okay I tried searching but it was hard.

Thanks for the pointer.

I read that the specific cartridge/stylus can greatly affect how much inner groove distortion there is, as well as all the adjustments of the cartridge and tonearm. So basically I can't do anything about it with my turntable, since it has no adjustable parts and it has a non-adjustable P-mount cartridge.

Which brings me back to: Is the Music Hall MMF-2.1 a good table? Does it have all the adjustments and tweakable settings? I would probably get a Music Hall MMF Phono Pack stage as well. If there is something better or similar for around the same price, please help me out. Thanks again!

 

[eyeteeth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by werdwerdus /img/forum/go_quote.gif Which brings me back to: Is the Music Hall MMF-2.1 a good table?

I haven't had a Music Hall but I did have a Pro-Ject and the PRO-JECT DEBUT III is a sturdy option with the various adjustments you're looking for...I'm pretty sure. Anyway, it's an option in your price range. I believe the Music Halls and Pro-Jects are coming out of the same factory in Europe (but they depart through different doors?)

 

[Garbz]

The Music Hall is a Rega P2 clone. A very capable turntable. But if you're thinking of buying new, take a look into the second hand market as I found a Rega P3 for the same price as a new MMF2.1

 

[TheOnlyOne]

Quote:

Originally Posted by werdwerdus /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've really been enjoying the sound of vinyl so far, despite the distortion. I really like the analog sound compared to the CD sound. I'm not claiming that it's better, just that's it's different and I like it. The Rush albums that I have just sound so good, mainly Permanent Waves! As well as the Alan Parsons, Pink Floyd, ELP, ...

I glad to see you know what you are hearing, I for one don't have a problem with vinyl if one knows what it is doing to the sound. But for me I enjoy CD.

TheOnlyOne

 

[happyangryhappy]

I would look for a Rega over a Music Hall or Project. I have both a Music Hall MMF2.1 and a NAD 533 (which is a rega P2 clone) and the NAD is in my opinion a better sounding and basically alot more sturdy table - particularly the tonearm and counterbalance on the mmf2.1 is a little flimsy compared to the rb250 arm which come on the entry Rega tables. Also the Rega tables have a lot more readily available upgrades such as stainless/brass tonearm parts, glass/acrylic platters, rewire kits etc. which each in there own help bring the table up to even higher levels of performance. The mmf2.1 is a nice little table and sounds really good when you switch the cartridge, but I think you would be alot happier in the long run with a new Rega P2 or used P3 for the price of the Music Hall.

With a good cart/table combination and and the proper tools to clean your LP's it is pretty amazing how good vinyl can sound.

 

[HumanMedia]

Your problem is cartridge alighnment or anti skating. You imply there is no way of setting of your cartridge, but usually to get the best out of vinyl you must calibrate the alignment ('yaw') through its vertical axis to the record groove. An alignment tool or record is what you need for this. You must also make sure the cartridge is parallel to the playing surface ('pitch') by adjusting the height of the tonearm (sometimes by adding washers under the pivot). You must also adjust the tracking weight of the cartridge based on its recommended spec and importantly make sure the the stylus is matched to the tonarms effective mass. With the correct tracking weight the anti saking can be set correctly.

http://www.smartdev.com/LT/Align.htm
http://www.theanalogdept.com/cartrid...m_matching.htm
http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/ttadjust.html

 

[werdwerdus]

Well believe me, there isn't anything on this turntable that I can adjust (the only thing may be to raise the tone arm with washers as you suggested, but I haven't checked if that's feasible). Basically I think I'm stuck with this until I get a new turntable that uses a standard mount cartridge instead of a P-mount.

Now my main question is: Does inner-groove distortion damage the record? I'm getting a couple brand new records and I haven't listend to them yet because I'm afraid that the IGD is going to damage them. Should I be more worried about the distortion and its effects on the vinyl? Or is IGD just something that I hear because of the turntable/cart/stylus?

 

[JXBJXB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by werdwerdus /img/forum/go_quote.gif Now my main question is: Does inner-groove distortion damage the record? I'm getting a couple brand new records and I haven't listend to them yet because I'm afraid that the IGD is going to damage them. Should I be more worried about the distortion and its effects on the vinyl? Or is IGD just something that I hear because of the turntable/cart/stylus?

Assuming that your P-mount table is in good working order and applying the proper tracking force to the record, I wouldn't worry. The specs for the P-mount system top the tracking force out at 1.5g, which, assuming that the cartridge is reasonably aligned, shouldn't damage your records. And the P-mount system, while far from perfect, should reasonably align the stylus.

Careful alignment to avoid record damage becomes more important with styli that are more advanced than the basic elliptical your Grado Black has. For example, an Audio-Technica line contact, a Shure micro ridge, or an Ortofon fritz gyger all need to be carefully aligned - if they aren't, you risk groove damage especially at higher tracking forces.

Vinyl is more robust than you think and can take a lot of abuse. Even higher tracking forces aren't a problem unless the cartridge is woefully out of alignment and you've got an advanced stylus like the ones I mentioned above.

To reduce IGD, the major step is careful cartridge alignment, which you can't really do with a P-mount. You're probably stuck with some level of IGD until you upgrade your table to something non P-mount where you can really dial-in the alignment. An advanced stylus profile also helps. Another route would be to go with a linear-tracking table, which has an entirely different set of problems but excels at minimizing IGD.

Ironically, if your records are used, you might be hearing IGD on the inner 1/3rd of records because they are already damaged from the previous owner(s). If you're concerned about damaging your records but want to see how much IGD you really have, go buy a cheap, but sealed record and play the inner 1/3rd.

One other thing to consider, and sorry if it is obvious. As the stylus plays through a record, by the time it gets to the inner 1/3rd, it can often be pretty dirty - distortion on the inner grooves can simply be a dirty stylus. Keep your records and your stylus clean.