[mammal]

I'm glad you're finally getting to try them. I also saw that you just tried the 009S and Sr1a as well? How was that? I might be able to tell you if you'll end up losing your wallet based on how that went lol

They both did one thing very well, but overall, did not feel like a headphone for me to be honest. I liked strings on 009S and SR1a presented music in a way I have never heard before - like a waterfall into which I put my head, the music was seemingly coming out of nowhere, I liked that, so it had this WOW factor, but after a while, I lacked meat on the bones, compared to 1266 TC. I think they both do resolution well, and their mids are in 009S > SR1a > 1266 TC order, BUT overall, I would not call either of them "my main pair", just complementary to 1266 TC. I am one of few head-fiers who do not wish to own a collection, and is instead looking for an upgrade path to an existing system (being one headphone, one amp, one dac). Right tubes for my Riviera AIC-10 make 1266 shine in mids, where as the rest is perfect to my ears already (for EDM that is). So curious what you think (your predictions) of Shangri-la Sr and how will that be perceived by little me based on this assessment, haha.

 

[number1sixerfan]

They both did one thing very well, but overall, did not feel like a headphone for me to be honest. I liked strings on 009S and SR1a presented music in a way I have never heard before - like a waterfall into which I put my head, the music was seemingly coming out of nowhere, I liked that, so it had this WOW factor, but after a while, I lacked meat on the bones, compared to 1266 TC. I think they both do resolution well, and their mids are in 009S > SR1a > 1266 TC order, BUT overall, I would not call either of them "my main pair", just complementary to 1266 TC. I am one of few head-fiers who do not wish to own a collection, and is instead looking for an upgrade path to an existing system (being one headphone, one amp, one dac). Right tubes for my Riviera AIC-10 make 1266 shine in mids, where as the rest is perfect to my ears already (for EDM that is). So curious what you think (your predictions) of Shangri-la Sr and how will that be perceived by little me based on this assessment, haha.

Agree with most of what you're saying here and totally understand. Agree on the point about the mids as well, in that order. I would actually expect that you'd really like the SGL. Mainly because it seems like we hear similarly or have similar preferences (not just from this post, but others), but also based on your reaction above.

The SGL has the TOTL detail, speed, sounstage and imaging, while actually having the "meat on the bones" so to speak, as mentioned.

I understand the desire to have one headphone and one headphone only, but I'm finding the TC to be a really good complement out of everything to the SGL. The SGL still has an additional layer of refinement, but the TC does so many things exceptionally and has more enjoyable sub-bass. It's the only headphone I have that has a clear upper hand on the SGL in a single given area imo. I mention that because you love the TC.

I would say two things, 1) don't expect to be wowed by the SGL immediately, it's wow factor is just how perfect it does everything (similar to the Susvara, just to a higher degree). 45min in I started to drop really big grins.. and 2) I'm not sure it would be a full stop replacement for the TC given its own wow factor/strengths and how much you love them.

That said, if I could only have one headphone, it would be a very very easy decision for me.

 

[mammal]

Agree with most of what you're saying here and totally understand. Agree on the point about the mids as well, in that order. I would actually expect that you'd really like the SGL. Mainly because it seems like we hear similarly or have similar preferences (not just from this post, but others), but also based on your reaction above.

The SGL has the TOTL detail, speed, sounstage and imaging, while actually having the "meat on the bones" so to speak, as mentioned.

I understand the desire to have one headphone and one headphone only, but I'm finding the TC to be a really good complement out of everything to the SGL. The SGL still has an additional layer of refinement, but the TC does so many things exceptionally and has more enjoyable sub-bass. It's the only headphone I have that has a clear upper hand on the SGL in a single given area imo. I mention that because you love the TC.

I would say two things, 1) don't expect to be wowed by the SGL immediately, it's wow factor is just how perfect it does everything (similar to the Susvara, just to a higher degree). 45min in I started to drop really big grins.. and 2) I'm not sure it would be a full stop replacement for the TC given its own wow factor/strengths and how much you love them.

That said, if I could only have one headphone, it would be a very very easy decision for me.

Thank you for posting your predictions, I will definitely make sure to update the thread once I listen to SGL. I will have like 4 hours at the demo room, so plan to spend as much as possible with familiar songs, so that I can judge for myself, even if the conditions are less than perfect. It is good to have you as the person who is going for the absolute top (being DIY T2), in case I end up purchasing SGL, I will have you as a reference of how to squeeze more out of it, if you know what I mean. The thing is that I am more than happy to replace 1266, or build around a different headphone, even if it has a bit less sub-bass. I guess what I want is "familiar" while being "refined", and if SGL offers the refinement, while being familiar, even if it has a bit less of XYZ, that does not mean it is a problem. Like with 1266, where I had to "fix" the mids, I think I got quite far in improving them with Riviera.

 

[buzzlulu]

I will have you as a reference of how to squeeze more out of it, if you know what I mean.

At least you have a good foundation for your headfi system by using the Bartok. I am primarily 2 channel (gear in my signature) and the fundamental rule to system building is SOURCE FIRST. It is useless to have a T2 and other totl amplifiers - and cans for that matter - and run them off of a Chord Qutest, RME and the like. Unfortunately this does not compute for many on headfi.

 

[mammal]

At least you have a good foundation for your headfi system by using the Bartok. I am primarily 2 channel (gear in my signature) and the fundamental rule to system building is SOURCE FIRST. It is useless to have a T2 and other totl amplifiers - and cans for that matter - and run them off of a Chord Qutest, RME and the like. Unfortunately this does not compute for many on headfi.

I have to agree. To be honest, when I was new into this I thought the only thing which matters is transducer (headphone or speaker) but when I compared TT2 and Bartok side by side, the difference was huge. Made me realize that headphones currently aren't yet at their peak and one shouldn't be saying "my headphones cost 5k, so I shouldn't be spending more than 5k on accompanying electronics "

 

[buzzlulu]

Actually the transducers (headphones or speakers) are simply the end point.
The most famous turntable in the world, the Linn LP12 introduced in 1973, turned the hifi industry upside down by preaching the concept of source first.
Their logic, in simplistic terms, was all of the music is contained within the grooves of the record. The most important thing is to get as much of that music OUT OF THE GROOVES as possible. Any music which remains is music lost - and as a result your speakers (or headphones) are not reproducing ALL of the music.

In order to extract the most music out of the grooves one needs to system build with the best record player possible.
The same can now be applied to digital - the best DAC one can afford - and start system building from that point.

Now - for those who say all DAC's are the same.....time for me to leave.

 

[BassicScience]

Actually the transducers (headphones or speakers) are simply the end point.
The most famous turntable in the world, the Linn LP12 introduced in 1973, turned the hifi industry upside down by preaching the concept of source first.
Their logic, in simplistic terms, was all of the music is contained within the grooves of the record. The most important thing is to get as much of that music OUT OF THE GROOVES as possible. Any music which remains is music lost - and as a result your speakers (or headphones) are not reproducing ALL of the music.

In order to extract the most music out of the grooves one needs to system build with the best record player possible.
The same can now be applied to digital - the best DAC one can afford - and start system building from that point.

Now - for those who say all DAC's are the same.....time for me to leave.

I owned an LP12 turntable for many years, and am familiar with Linn's philosophy, which is partly marketing. Quite a decent turntable... in its day. The difference, though, between competent and state-of-the-art DACs is nowhere near the magnitude of difference between competent and state-of-the-art turntables (or headphones). As I stated in another thread recently, with a budget of $10K and a goal to get the best overall sound, the lion's share should be going into the headphones. YMMV, I guess.

 

[buzzlulu]

Do not agree however as you said…YMMV

RE the Linn - today’s LP12 is not your daddy’s LP12 from yesteryear. There have been so many upgrades over the past 50 years (with more to come) that a CURRENT SPEC Linn remains one of the best TT’s available today.

As for all DAC’s sounding the same I will take most Headfi’ers preferred DAC du jour, Chord, and say that the majority will find the differences between the entry Mojo at $499 and then working up through the Qutest, Hugo2, TT2, DAVE, and MScaler add on to be quite different. So in dollar terms that is $499 all the way up through $16k. I don’t think many DAVE/MScaler users think their DAC sounds the same as a Qutest or Hugo2

 

[BassicScience]

Do not agree however as you said…YMMV

RE the Linn - today’s LP12 is not your daddy’s LP12 from yesteryear. There have been so many upgrades over the past 50 years (with more to come) that a CURRENT SPEC Linn remains one of the best TT’s available today.

As for all DAC’s sounding the same I will take most Headfi’ers preferred DAC du jour, Chord, and say that the majority will find the differences between the entry Mojo at $499 and then working up through the Qutest, Hugo2, TT2, DAVE, and MScaler add on to be quite different. So in dollar terms that is $499 all the way up through $16k. I don’t think many DAVE/MScaler users think their DAC sounds the same as a Qutest or Hugo2

Um, where did I say that all DACs sound the same? If I thought that, I probably wouldn't own the one I do. That said, I can swap in my old DAC (which cost about 1/10 as much) and still get a very good approximation of the sound I currently enjoy. Personally, I find the differences between DACs are much more apparent when listening with high quality speakers as opposed to headphones. Again, your mileage may vary. Cheers.

 

[number1sixerfan]

On the above topic, I think it just depends on the scenario and budget in question. I (still) have the Hugo 2, have used it alone, and with the Mscaler, and have the Dave/Mscaler now. I absolutely would stick with the Hugo 2 longer if the decision were between upgrading the DAC or for example being able to afford a headphone at a higher level such as the TC/Susvara vs. something at a lower level. Taking the VC for example, which has a lower performance floor.. no matter the front end upgrades made, it will never perform at the level of the former. So my reasoning is to always start there and work your way backwards.. but that mindset isn't equivalent of thinking that "DAC's aren't important", which gets misconstrued on here a bit.

 

[number1sixerfan]

I’ve been doing a lot of extensive listening to the SGL Sr., TC, and Raal Sr1a the past few weeks. About a 50/50 between just long individual sessions and direct A/B comparisons. All of which have confirmed the initial impressions I shared earlier: the SGL is just a clear step ahead of both. I hate to sound like a broken record, but the refinement of the sound provides a different and elevated experience. With that said, this exercise confirmed for me that the TC is my preferred complement to the SGL at this moment. That’s even over the 009, which as I’ve said many many times have been my favorite headphones. A few details listed below:

TC vs. SGL

1. SGL is more detailed and has better separation of the music. Imaging is noticeably better as well.
2. SGL mids are much better. More forward, more body and vocals especially stand out. When combined with point #1, overall it makes for a more cohesive and refined sound
3. Although the SGL has great bass, the TC has more enjoyable bass, no question imo. The perceived amount and impact stand out, while still being very tight and articulate.. and most importantly not overpowering the rest of the spectrum like most cans with similar bass do.
4. TC has a slightly more open sound and wider soundstage from left to right.. but the SGL overall soundstage and presentation gets the nod by far. To my ears it has the 3rd widest soundstage after the Raal and TC and comes close to both, but beats the two of them entirely from a ‘top to bottom’ (depth) and ‘front to back’ perspective. There’s a greater overall holographic nature w/the SGL Sr.

Sr1a vs. SGL

1. Raal closes the gap with separation in the music in comparison to the TC, although still lags behind the SGL noticeably
2. Detail wise, the SGL gets the nod, as the slightly better separation, the significant extra body and realism makes details of the music more identifiable and apparent
3. Sr1a is more open. The actual headphones feel like they disappear in comparison to anything. The music just floats around your ears so to speak. Very majestic, huge part of its wow factor
4. The SGL sounds considerably more life-like with slightly better placed and weightier vocals, more accurate weight of instruments. In direct (extended) comparison, the Raal sounds very thin—and that’s my biggest gripe, which wasn’t much of a problem before acquiring the SGL Sr.
5. Soundstage among the two is surprisingly close, again Raal wins from left to right, but overall I find the SGL quite a bit more cohesive and holographic overall
6. Bass. No comparison. SGL has much, much better bass than the Sr1a, both quality and quantity wise, and in the mid and sub-bass regions both.

 

[number1sixerfan]

To wrap up, I do want to mention that I don’t think it’s really fair to compare the SGL to either of these. Price gap is huge and again, like much of Hifiman's lineup, I honestly think they're quite overpriced. But with that said, there’s a clear step above difference. I’ve been really enjoying the TC and I’m definitely keeping them, as it’s the ONLY headphone I have that has an aspect of the sound it clearly does better than the SGL (and everything else)—bass. That coupled with how great it is technically and it’s tonal contrast, they've been a welcomed counterpart to at least give some time eagerly. I think they can be a really good combo to keep long term.

With the Raal I’m honestly struggling. For specific genres they really shine, but the overall performance gap between it and the SGL is rather large imho. I’m just not picking them up often at all. But if I give it a day in between comparing or listening to the SGL, I can still really enjoy it in its own right. I’d like to keep them until their circumaural headphones come out, but will likely sale them after that.

And as excellent as the Susvaras are, I’m pretty sure I’ll offload them as well. They are excellent, and the SGL has actually made me appreciate them even more. But the SGL is like its bigger brother, as they are essentially the electrostatic version of the Susvara, on steroids. But with the overlap, I just don’t grab for them much either anymore. Verdict is still not out on the 009, as they seem like a solid addition contrast wise as well, but it's been hard to give them time as well. Lastly, very eager to receive and hear the CRBN.

 

[HugoFreire]

Welp. Ended up going the DIY T2 route via Kerry at Head-case.

Congrats, way to go!! That's the best of the best, true state of the art. You will definitely not be disappointed.
I've listened to the SGL with its companion amp and IMO they are the only cans that may come close to the HE90s, which are the best I've ever heard (especially paired with the T2). I've been wondering how the SGL would sound out of the T2 ever since, so I can't wait for your impressions!

 

[Jon L]

Disappointingly, Shangri-La Sr build quality appears even worse than Hifiman stock photos, not even considering the $18K ('phone-only) price IMHO...

 

[DJJEZ]

Disappointingly, Shangri-La Sr build quality appears even worse than Hifiman stock photos, not even considering the $18K ('phone-only) price IMHO...

Looks similar in build quality to susvara to me but with same pads as arya