donunus
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What do you mean the last version without these reclockers? the 2008 versions you mean?
Valab NOS DAC - subjective listening and modifications
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MikoLayer
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Quote:
Yep, I am quite interested myself, gonna have to let one of the two go after the showdown lol
| Originally Posted by PatOMalley /img/forum/go_quote.gif MikoLayer, I'd like to know what you think of it vs the Monica 2 when you get burn-in over and done with. |
Yep, I am quite interested myself, gonna have to let one of the two go after the showdown lol
r8833
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I like the concept of no moving parts and for 130.00 this would a good experiment. If we can tweak the QA-550 like we did the Valab, we can make a so so sounding product awesome..google QA-550..some good comments. Will try the I2s connection with valab
Bill Allen
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The 2008 Valab and early 2009 DAC's did not have built in reclocking post the DIR9001 Spdif receiver chip or CM108 USB receiver chip. All of the latest Valab Dac's now have this reclocking feature. If you see two of the silver rectangular clocks then you have a reclocker. On this forum it is mystery whether this reclocker feature creates more jitter than it repairs. Think of jitter like distortion, mixing different distortions into the mix is like randomly twisting a knob on a guitar amp. Who knows what kind of sound is going to come out.
Adding an outboard reclocker like an Empirical Audio Pace Car or precision Off Ramp USB receiver in front of the coax Spdif input drastically lowers the input jitter. I have found the lower the input jitter the lower the output jitter which translates to a larger more focused soundstage. Feed ultra low jitter I found almost all the NOS DAC's tend to "sound" the same. The major difference being the unique sonic signature of the analog output sections. Tube, Opamp, Discrete Transistors, and combinations there off all have a unique sonic signature. Remember each of these analog designs have a separate power supply that bring their own RF problems to the table. The net result, you guessed it, is like twisting a knob on a guitar amp.
With the Valab DAC there is no analog power supply to deal with and that is the true beauty of the design. The collective output of the 8 DAC chips provide the 2 VDC voltage via a single I/V resistor we strip the DC via a coupling cap and what's left is our AC audio signal. Simple you say. Well then why does all of our individual Valab DAC's still sound all over the map. Simple ... everything still matter's. (Now just imagine the difficulty a DAC designer faces when adding all the extra analog components). Ok let’s say we all have the cash and knowhow to install the DC-30, my new reference Texas Components naked TX2575 I/V resistors, and Dueland 4.7 uf coupling caps with pure silver wired in SSOM. Analog output section ... Done! How come our DAC's still sound all over the map. In one word ... Jitter! Jitter from god knows what "inside & outside" our transports or computers. Jitter in all shapes and sizes. (Unseen digital distortions if you dislike the word).
Ok let’s say you don't have the cash for a Pace Car/Off Ramp/Amarra so how do you go about lowering jitter? Simple, start with mechanical isolation of your transport and galvanic isolation of your digital signal by adding an input transformer. My friend Tony demonstrated several of his successful mechanical isolation techniques while I visited last week. Perhaps he will chime in. He is also working on adding an isolation transformer to his digital Coax input jack, together they should go a long way towards lowering his jitter component.
If you use USB digital input and have an Apple computer than I seriously suggest trying the Amarra “Mini” Music Player software. ($400) Unfortunately USB cables also have a huge impact on the sound and the good ones cost money. How you rip your music to a computer is also crucial, as is just about every other decision with computer audio. USB input to the Valab really is a can of worms compared to Coax input, if you go this route there is a lot of homework and trial an error.
Which input to use on your Valab DAC really depends on your situation and future upgrade plans. Choose wisely and don’t be afraid to experiment if you have the technology.
Adding an outboard reclocker like an Empirical Audio Pace Car or precision Off Ramp USB receiver in front of the coax Spdif input drastically lowers the input jitter. I have found the lower the input jitter the lower the output jitter which translates to a larger more focused soundstage. Feed ultra low jitter I found almost all the NOS DAC's tend to "sound" the same. The major difference being the unique sonic signature of the analog output sections. Tube, Opamp, Discrete Transistors, and combinations there off all have a unique sonic signature. Remember each of these analog designs have a separate power supply that bring their own RF problems to the table. The net result, you guessed it, is like twisting a knob on a guitar amp.
With the Valab DAC there is no analog power supply to deal with and that is the true beauty of the design. The collective output of the 8 DAC chips provide the 2 VDC voltage via a single I/V resistor we strip the DC via a coupling cap and what's left is our AC audio signal. Simple you say. Well then why does all of our individual Valab DAC's still sound all over the map. Simple ... everything still matter's. (Now just imagine the difficulty a DAC designer faces when adding all the extra analog components). Ok let’s say we all have the cash and knowhow to install the DC-30, my new reference Texas Components naked TX2575 I/V resistors, and Dueland 4.7 uf coupling caps with pure silver wired in SSOM. Analog output section ... Done! How come our DAC's still sound all over the map. In one word ... Jitter! Jitter from god knows what "inside & outside" our transports or computers. Jitter in all shapes and sizes. (Unseen digital distortions if you dislike the word).
Ok let’s say you don't have the cash for a Pace Car/Off Ramp/Amarra so how do you go about lowering jitter? Simple, start with mechanical isolation of your transport and galvanic isolation of your digital signal by adding an input transformer. My friend Tony demonstrated several of his successful mechanical isolation techniques while I visited last week. Perhaps he will chime in. He is also working on adding an isolation transformer to his digital Coax input jack, together they should go a long way towards lowering his jitter component.
If you use USB digital input and have an Apple computer than I seriously suggest trying the Amarra “Mini” Music Player software. ($400) Unfortunately USB cables also have a huge impact on the sound and the good ones cost money. How you rip your music to a computer is also crucial, as is just about every other decision with computer audio. USB input to the Valab really is a can of worms compared to Coax input, if you go this route there is a lot of homework and trial an error.
Which input to use on your Valab DAC really depends on your situation and future upgrade plans. Choose wisely and don’t be afraid to experiment if you have the technology.
PatOMalley
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Instead of the VALAB silver I copped a Belden 1694A from BlueJeans cable. In reading the site the choice made sense. My vdH carbon was kind of gray, the DIY silver clad stranded copper was lean but detailed and now this Belden is rich and deep. Bit is just bits, but you have to get them all and they need to be in the right pace ... I suppose.
My thinking re clocks is to not reclock at all being that any reclocking is a re-confabulation. My 2008 does not have the reclocker. Getting the signal as fast and clean as you can right to the receiver seems to have worked out in my case. Reducing jitter has had a profound effect, more than I ever thought it would.
Like Bill says, and I suppose it's the truth, the path in and out is so short and simple that any change is heard.
This has been a nice ride modding this thing. I have a set of Caddock resistors for the output that go in tonight and then I might be moving on to cleaning the motors on my idler to get it off it's blocks.
My thinking re clocks is to not reclock at all being that any reclocking is a re-confabulation. My 2008 does not have the reclocker. Getting the signal as fast and clean as you can right to the receiver seems to have worked out in my case. Reducing jitter has had a profound effect, more than I ever thought it would.
Like Bill says, and I suppose it's the truth, the path in and out is so short and simple that any change is heard.
This has been a nice ride modding this thing. I have a set of Caddock resistors for the output that go in tonight and then I might be moving on to cleaning the motors on my idler to get it off it's blocks.
donunus
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does someone here have two versions, the one with the extra reclocker and without for comparison? Maybe the new one might sound better when just connected directly from a pcs usb port?
Bill Allen
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I took another trip last weekend to visit my friend Jon in Columbus OH and gave him a present in the form of a late 2008 Valab DAC. FS mod, full Cryo, SSOM with Audyn 1uf MKP-QS 630V couplers soldered directly to the stock I/V resistors and silver wire to the RCA jacks. (The Audyn QS are my favorite ultra low cost film caps, $3 each. Just make sure you get the 630V versions.)
Jon has a pair of Bastanis Prometheus speakers, Ladyday 91 SET 300B monoblocks, SUC-3000 v.3 Technics battery Preamp and Reference Audio modded Oppo CD player. Also a Mac Book laptop with all his music ripped to .wav files at my suggestion. First thing first we stopped at the Apple store to pick up the latest copy of Snow Leopard. $30
My friend Jon is a true music lover and doesn't like complicated technology or to much futzing around, so in went the Valab DAC via USB and his Mac Book laptop. Bang, just like that his modded Oppo CD player was dust. His system was singing like he never heard it before, we listened till 4AM. Color him blown away!
The next day after a great lunch he decided that USB and iTunes was his avenue of choice so I went ahead and installed Snow Leopard on his Mac Book, 30 minutes. Next we played with generic USB cables he had laying around. He couldn't believe how different these USB cables sounded. We picked our favorite from the pile and decided on a pair of LAT IC-200 I/C’s. Done! Even better sound ... he couldn't believe it! Next just for fun, and because I could, I installed a Demo copy of Amarra and pressed play in iTunes. A/B proved to be difficult but after listening for 30 minutes I shut it off and it was clear that something special was going on with Amarra on. That sums up Amarra, you get Amarra when you Get Amarra!
Sunday we ate fresh corn and tomato’s from the garden and cooked Brats from the German Village, listened to music and drank beer till midnight. Tony called at one point and Jon and he rambled about Audio in General and how good the Valab DAC sounded. Perfect weather, great food, great tunes, and great friends. What more could a man ask for.
Thanks Jon … it one hell of a ride.
What I brought away from this experience is just how important it is to use cabling to tune the Valab DAC to a system. There are no rules, try everything you have on hand, there will be a combo that clearly sounds the best. However the really cool thing about the Valab DAC is that no matter what I do the rabbit hole continues. Where it leads you may be different but our own personel choices blaze the trail.
What a blast!
Jon has a pair of Bastanis Prometheus speakers, Ladyday 91 SET 300B monoblocks, SUC-3000 v.3 Technics battery Preamp and Reference Audio modded Oppo CD player. Also a Mac Book laptop with all his music ripped to .wav files at my suggestion. First thing first we stopped at the Apple store to pick up the latest copy of Snow Leopard. $30
My friend Jon is a true music lover and doesn't like complicated technology or to much futzing around, so in went the Valab DAC via USB and his Mac Book laptop. Bang, just like that his modded Oppo CD player was dust. His system was singing like he never heard it before, we listened till 4AM. Color him blown away!
The next day after a great lunch he decided that USB and iTunes was his avenue of choice so I went ahead and installed Snow Leopard on his Mac Book, 30 minutes. Next we played with generic USB cables he had laying around. He couldn't believe how different these USB cables sounded. We picked our favorite from the pile and decided on a pair of LAT IC-200 I/C’s. Done! Even better sound ... he couldn't believe it! Next just for fun, and because I could, I installed a Demo copy of Amarra and pressed play in iTunes. A/B proved to be difficult but after listening for 30 minutes I shut it off and it was clear that something special was going on with Amarra on. That sums up Amarra, you get Amarra when you Get Amarra!
Sunday we ate fresh corn and tomato’s from the garden and cooked Brats from the German Village, listened to music and drank beer till midnight. Tony called at one point and Jon and he rambled about Audio in General and how good the Valab DAC sounded. Perfect weather, great food, great tunes, and great friends. What more could a man ask for.
Thanks Jon … it one hell of a ride.
What I brought away from this experience is just how important it is to use cabling to tune the Valab DAC to a system. There are no rules, try everything you have on hand, there will be a combo that clearly sounds the best. However the really cool thing about the Valab DAC is that no matter what I do the rabbit hole continues. Where it leads you may be different but our own personel choices blaze the trail.
What a blast!
PatOMalley
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I replaced the PRP resistors at output and it made a change. So the PRP that I had in there were globbed onto the previous resistors leads with blobs of leftover solder. Ugly but effective. The sound was tending to lush in comparison the Carrocks which are fast and very revealing.
You can hear a few more things with the Caddocks but I am missing the phat sound of the PRP. There were phat but clean at the same time.
No way to go back. The way the PRPs were in there was too individual. Can't replace the globs of solder the way they were or the original crapass leftover original leads from some vintage Vishay resistors.
That was a very particular lush - who knew it was coming from the resistors? I thought the new cable was doing that. Ah well.
I chose the MK132 as someone wrote that it was the warmest of the several of the precision resistors they had tried in another application. They are not brutal or etched and are probably most preferable except for rare case like the slop I had going for me. Sometimes it's good to quit while your ahead. But at this point it is like losing $100 after winning $5000.
Another trick I saw in the internet was to add pipe couplers to the nonshielded IECs and I also added a ferrite to the DC in cable. This made a shade of a difference that I could not swear I could really point out in an ABX. Since I perceived a difference and I now own those weird pipe couplers it stays.
You can hear a few more things with the Caddocks but I am missing the phat sound of the PRP. There were phat but clean at the same time.
No way to go back. The way the PRPs were in there was too individual. Can't replace the globs of solder the way they were or the original crapass leftover original leads from some vintage Vishay resistors.
That was a very particular lush - who knew it was coming from the resistors? I thought the new cable was doing that. Ah well.
I chose the MK132 as someone wrote that it was the warmest of the several of the precision resistors they had tried in another application. They are not brutal or etched and are probably most preferable except for rare case like the slop I had going for me. Sometimes it's good to quit while your ahead. But at this point it is like losing $100 after winning $5000.
Another trick I saw in the internet was to add pipe couplers to the nonshielded IECs and I also added a ferrite to the DC in cable. This made a shade of a difference that I could not swear I could really point out in an ABX. Since I perceived a difference and I now own those weird pipe couplers it stays.
PatOMalley
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The NAD C541i
This thing has damping pads on the top chassis lid, EMI papaer over that, blu tac on the bottom and on the seams, also on the transports vibraty bits.
It has ferrite on the power coming off the transformer ...
This thing has a 75ohm output pulse transformer.
I use a Herbies thick CD mat. I had to raise the transport thing that holds the CD down a bit to allow for the CD+mat to slide it without the mat curling back. The Herbie's mat went a ways to add some weight and depth and detail.
There are nice thick rubber feet.
In the middle of putting together another rack and I will try to find a way to mass load the top chassis.
This thing has damping pads on the top chassis lid, EMI papaer over that, blu tac on the bottom and on the seams, also on the transports vibraty bits.
It has ferrite on the power coming off the transformer ...
This thing has a 75ohm output pulse transformer.
I use a Herbies thick CD mat. I had to raise the transport thing that holds the CD down a bit to allow for the CD+mat to slide it without the mat curling back. The Herbie's mat went a ways to add some weight and depth and detail.
There are nice thick rubber feet.
In the middle of putting together another rack and I will try to find a way to mass load the top chassis.
Erastejutrarf
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Erastejutrarf
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Beendteen
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Where to buy Cipro - {squad;} Where to buy Ilosone - {squad;} Propecia Buy Online - CLR/H Where to buy Actos - {squad;} He caressed link breasts and stomach.
MikoLayer
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The VALAB is here. I just don't have enough time right now to do serious ABing. I will probably just listen to it for a couple of minutes and let it burn in for a while
That, the left driver on my HD650 is broken, awaiting the replacement to arrive sometime mid next week. I will have to reserve my full judgement until I get to listen to it to full length on my main headphones.
MikeW
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I just bought the Luxery version to compare to my jan 09 model. I will test them head to head, one with and without reclockers. though all my sources are probably high jitter. I don't really understand spending 1200 for a reclocker on a 200 dac.. lol i'd rather get a 1500$ dac to start with if I had that kind of money, but to each their own. Hard to imagine this dac in the same league with DA11, Northstar 192, GD-Audio Ref 1, etc. And that's exactly the price range you put it into when you have a freakin pace car lol.
edit: im not big into modding, but adding a pulse transformer to the coax seems easy and worthwhile, can anyone point me to a part# and source for a good one?
edit: im not big into modding, but adding a pulse transformer to the coax seems easy and worthwhile, can anyone point me to a part# and source for a good one?
Bill Allen
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Thanks Mike keep us posted.
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I suggest you buy:
STTC- 136 Small Chisel Tip (700 degree's)
STTC- 125 Small Point Tip (For example STTC- 025 is a 600 degree tip which is also fine for most home soldering).
Any Wonder Solder (easist to learn with)
Finally a roll of Solder Wick to desolder with and you are on your way.
For those about to solder ... WE SALUTE YOU!
Here is your chance to order one of the finest soldering stations on the planet for only $99. (New they retail at $800, 3 available, don't delay).
METCAL SOLDERING STATION PS2E-01 IRON POWER SUPPLY 115V - eBay (item 390092686443 end time Oct-10-09 18:29:53 PDT)
Contrary to popular belief ... the better the soldering iron ... the easier it is to learn! I have one of these Metcal units and you will learn to solder like a pro in no time. The tip will heat in less than 2 seconds and hold a steady temperture no matter what you lay it on. This is important for a fast clean joint. It will shut itself off after 30 minutes. Great feature. Great Iron!
I suggest you buy:
STTC- 136 Small Chisel Tip (700 degree's)
STTC- 125 Small Point Tip (For example STTC- 025 is a 600 degree tip which is also fine for most home soldering).
Any Wonder Solder (easist to learn with)
Finally a roll of Solder Wick to desolder with and you are on your way.
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