V-MODA Crossfade 2 Wireless - We Discuss It With Val Kolton - Head-Fi TV

[skyejack]

Absolutely, and I would no doubt be an early adopter. Would be nice to have 'official closure'. Not thats it's needed but would instill more trust, at least for me.

I think it is definitely needed. I've gone from being someone that was a fan of the company to the point of recommending them to friends and family in real life, and to strangers online on gaming/movie/headphone forums. Now I do neither. Their support people, as well as Val, read this thread, and yet still they've provided absolutely no guidance on what they support. I'm done with them as a company.

 

[MICHAELSD]

I think it is definitely needed. I've gone from being someone that was a fan of the company to the point of recommending them to friends and family in real life, and to strangers online on gaming/movie/headphone forums. Now I do neither. Their support people, as well as Val, read this thread, and yet still they've provided absolutely no guidance on what they support. I'm done with them as a company.

While I'm not totally done with them as a company as you are, I did go from wanting to buy CFW2 and Forza for months on end to buying neither.

My speculation on why they've been avoiding specific questions about CFW2 is because CFW1 advertised support for various codecs for months that it turned out to not actually support in actual consumer testing. I think they're doing what they can to avoid false advertising claims on CFW1 by now avoiding discussing codecs on CFW2 so as to not implicate themselves. While I think it was an honest mistake, a false advertising suit over CFW1 would cost the company millions and potentially bankrupt them.

 

[MICHAELSD]

AAC Plus vs APTX
320kbps is the pipeline to fit BT sound, so it is best to not recompress if possible. AAC+ is the most widely used algorithm in streaming apps, so therefore by not converting from LOSSLESS to AAC+ to APTX is superior. Apple does not support APTX because of this, I spoke to their engineering team when making this decision.

Our Bluetooth DOES supports AAC+ and many headphones do not, also if the source file is AAC or MP3 up to 320kbps, our headphones will not recompress the file. Headphones that dont support AAC plus will have to convert to MP3, etc...

If you happen to own the only notebook,

Samsung ATIV Book 9 Plus​

or computer

Samsung ATIV One 7​

that supports APTX and use music that isnt MP3 AAC PLUS, etc. than you may be able to use APTX. However, APTX is still fitting in a 320kpbs pipe, so I am sure the AAC PLus and APTX algorithm engineers could argue forever on which is best... they are both compressed...

Here is a list of the 2 APTX PCS AND NOTEBOOKS http://www.aptx.com/category/pc

UK
They are rolling out slowly to UK and EU, etc... For now buy from V-MODA.com and they will be at Selfridges and others within weeks except for gunmetal black.

Last of all, our headphones are flash upgradable, so in the future we could extra features, apps or algorithms if I decide to... but I think that is best done in the core OS or app and NOT by the headphone manufacturer. For instance, my Galaxy S6 Edge has a new system that changes the sound based on a hearing test!!!

Cheers,

V

 

[winslord]

While I'm not totally done with them as a company as you are, I did go from wanting to buy CFW2 and Forza for months on end to buying neither.

My speculation on why they've been avoiding specific questions about CFW2 is because CFW1 advertised support for various codecs for months that it turned out to not actually support in actual consumer testing. I think they're doing what they can to avoid false advertising claims on CFW1 by now avoiding discussing codecs on CFW2 so as to not implicate themselves.

ROFL, whatever their codec (or lack thereof), they're each one of the best in their own segments. At least as Bluetooth headphones. I chose my BeoPlay H9 over the CF2W. Why? Because of the sound adjustability. What'd I do with them? TUNE THEM TO THE PERFECTION OF CF2W AND FMW through ToneTouch in the BeoPlay app. LOL. True story; just 10 minutes ago I was at my 5th song on the H9 default sound signature and my ears literally couldn't hold them anymore, as it was too sharp and I changed it back to the CF2W tuning! I feel like getting rid of AAC helped them naturally remove some "too-sharp" frequency. With the H9, no matter how much I reduced the treble, I found it hard to not "hiss" unlike the FMW, which sounds perfect to my ear. Super clear on the high side, yet not painfully sharp. Or it could be the large drivers, because CF2W has that little bit of a "hiss" too.

I find the clarity of my H9 AAC and CF2W SBC not that different to be honest. CF2W does sound more relaxed (some people might call it cloudy), but it could just be the tuning. I was able to achieve that similar vocal on the H9 through extensive tuning. Therefore, it might just be how Val preferred the sound signature to be. For example, my girlfriend preferred the "cloudier" sound of her Sony earphones over my FMW.

 

[MICHAELSD]

ROFL, whatever their codec (or lack thereof), they're each one of the best in their own segments. At least as Bluetooth headphones. I chose my BeoPlay H9 over the CF2W. Why? Because of the sound adjustability. What'd I do with them? TUNE THEM TO THE PERFECTION OF CF2W AND FMW through ToneTouch in the BeoPlay app. LOL. True story; just 10 minutes ago I was at my 5th song on the H9 default sound signature and my ears literally couldn't hold them anymore, as it was too sharp and I changed it back to the CF2W tuning! I feel like getting rid of AAC helped them naturally remove some "too-sharp" frequency. With the H9, no matter how much I reduced the treble, I found it hard to not "hiss" unlike the FMW, which sounds perfect to my ear. Super clear on the high side, yet not painfully sharp. Or it could be the large drivers, because CF2W has that little bit of a "hiss" too.

I find the clarity of my H9 AAC and CF2W SBC not that different to be honest. CF2W does sound more relaxed (some people might call it cloudy), but it could just be the tuning. I was able to achieve that similar vocal on the H9 through extensive tuning. Therefore, it might just be how Val preferred the sound signature to be. For example, my girlfriend preferred the "cloudier" sound of her Sony earphones over my FMW.

I have no doubt that CF2W sounds great, but I think you're just describing the phenomenon where the listener gets used to one sound signature. You got used to the compressed sound of SBC, which is fine, but it's objectively inferior to AAC. I do get what you mean as SBC seems to cut out the highest frequencies and is an easier listening experience, but it's still just an okay codec.

 

[skyejack]

While I'm not totally done with them as a company as you are, I did go from wanting to buy CFW2 and Forza for months on end to buying neither.

My speculation on why they've been avoiding specific questions about CFW2 is because CFW1 advertised support for various codecs for months that it turned out to not actually support in actual consumer testing. I think they're doing what they can to avoid false advertising claims on CFW1 by now avoiding discussing codecs on CFW2 so as to not implicate themselves. While I think it was an honest mistake, a false advertising suit over CFW1 would cost the company millions and potentially bankrupt them.

Wouldn't they be able to avoid stating misinformation by actually knowing what it is they built/designed? How do they not know what it is that their own headphones are capable of? Val says he spent days just picking over hundreds of ear pads. Did he not apply the same dedication to choosing codecs?

What I find funny is that on Amazon they still advertise this on the CFW1: Bluetooth: Low-Power CSR Blue Core featuring Hi-Fi ACC+, ACC, MP3, SBC codecs

 

[MICHAELSD]

Wouldn't they be able to avoid stating misinformation by actually knowing what it is they built/designed? How do they not know what it is that their own headphones are capable of? Val says he spent days just picking over hundreds of ear pads. Did he not apply the same dedication to choosing codecs?

What I find funny is that on Amazon they still advertise this on the CFW1: Bluetooth: Low-Power CSR Blue Core featuring Hi-Fi ACC+, ACC, MP3, SBC codecs

He did seem to put time into choosing codecs as is evident from older quotes from the CFW1 thread, but there must be a disconnect between the engineering team and the rest of V-MODA because CFW1 in consumer testing doesn't support AAC+ or AAC, and probably doesn't support the MP3 codec either. Now I think they're just trying to sweep this under the rug to avoid a false advertising suit.

 

[winslord]

I have no doubt that CF2W sounds great, but I think you're just describing the phenomenon where the listener gets used to one sound signature. You got used to the compressed sound of SBC, which is fine, but it's objectively inferior to AAC. I do get what you mean as SBC seems to cut out the highest frequencies and is an easier listening experience, but it's still just an okay codec.

Hahaha maybe but if so, I should be more used to the sound of AAC then. Before I had wireless V-MODA all I had were AAC earphones and headphones from Beoplay. My most frequently listened sound signature is B&O, not V-MODA. I have 5 speakers of B&O and only one regularly used V-MODA, the FMW. I use my Beoplay H9 as my CF2W. I believe that non-critical listeners will not be able to differentiate between AAC and SBC except for those sibilants. I'm saying if Val wanted the current sound signature, he definitely didn't need AAC and omitting it away reduces manufacturing costs anyway.

 

[Lrasanen]

Hahaha maybe but if so, I should be more used to the sound of AAC then. Before I had wireless V-MODA all I had were AAC earphones and headphones from Beoplay. My most frequently listened sound signature is B&O, not V-MODA. I have 5 speakers of B&O and only one regularly used V-MODA, the FMW. I use my Beoplay H9 as my CF2W. I believe that non-critical listeners will not be able to differentiate between AAC and SBC except for those sibilants. I'm saying if Val wanted the current sound signature, he definitely didn't need AAC and omitting it away reduces manufacturing costs anyway.

Perhaps I'm getting a little off topic here, but I've been looking for a more "fun" sounding alternative to my Momentum 2 Wireless. I kind of like the sound of the M2Ws, but overall I found them to be a bit dull. I appreciate a punchy bass (and more bass quantity than that of the M2Ws, but less than e.g. the Beoplay H4). At the moment, the alternatives I've been looking at are the CF2W and Beoplay H7. How do they compare in terms of sound?

 

[winslord]

Perhaps I'm getting a little off topic here, but I've been looking for a more "fun" sounding alternative to my Momentum 2 Wireless. I kind of like the sound of the M2Ws, but overall I found them to be a bit dull. I appreciate a punchy bass (and more bass quantity than that of the M2Ws, but less than e.g. the Beoplay H4). At the moment, the alternatives I've been looking at are the CF2W and Beoplay H7. How do they compare in terms of sound?

Unless you're down for finding the right tuning and opening the app every time you turn on the headphones, don't get the H7 or H9. Check out my opinions at the differences between them at the H9 thread.

The CF2W has a way better sound out of the box but I don't think it's that much fun of a sound. It's pretty freaking balanced. Way more balanced than an H9 or even an H7. Look, it's not completely flat, but it's really balanced. Bass is heavy when the track demands it to be, but at other times bass is not that dominant.

Many would find the first Crossfade Wireless to be a fun sound, but really, I can't sacrifice the clarity of the CF2W for that.

 

[Lrasanen]

Unless you're down for finding the right tuning and opening the app every time you turn on the headphones, don't get the H7 or H9. Check out my opinions at the differences between them at the H9 thread.

The CF2W has a way better sound out of the box but I don't think it's that much fun of a sound. It's pretty freaking balanced. Way more balanced than an H9 or even an H7. Look, it's not completely flat, but it's really balanced. Bass is heavy when the track demands it to be, but at other times bass is not that dominant.

Many would find the first Crossfade Wireless to be a fun sound, but really, I can't sacrifice the clarity of the CF2W for that.

Thank you!

I actually did have the original CFW a while back and compared them against the Momentums. I'm absolutely with you on prefering clarity... I ended up keeping the Momentums basically because I found the CFW to be a tad too muddy and the mids to be perhaps a little recessed. I'm really not into using EQ or apps to tune the sound either.

Considering this, I'm thinking that the CF2W might be a good option bringing some clarity to the mix when compared to the original CFW.

 

[Yaroslav]

Perhaps I'm getting a little off topic here, but I've been looking for a more "fun" sounding alternative to my Momentum 2 Wireless. I kind of like the sound of the M2Ws, but overall I found them to be a bit dull. I appreciate a punchy bass (and more bass quantity than that of the M2Ws, but less than e.g. the Beoplay H4). At the moment, the alternatives I've been looking at are the CF2W and Beoplay H7. How do they compare in terms of sound?

P7. P7. Did I mention P7? I think I did. It fits your description like a glove.

 

[Lrasanen]

P7. P7. Did I mention P7? I think I did. It fits your description like a glove.

I know! I'd love to give the P7s a go, but those are nearly impossible to come by here in Finland. ...and they cost about 100€ more than the other options mentioned here. From what I've read, the P7 have a bit more sculpted sound than the CF2W?

 

[Yaroslav]

I know! I'd love to give the P7s a go, but those are nearly impossible to come by here in Finland. ...and they cost about 100€ more than the other options mentioned here. From what I've read, the P7 have a bit more sculpted sound than the CF2W?

Hm strange, I would understand if it's hard to get a hold of them in US, but in Europe..

Basically, they have great sub-bass, are v-shaped but not as extreme as M-100/CFW—they have a lot of punch, but at the same time, they sound reasonably good to listen to instrumental music.
Not at all netural, unfortunately, but still very good.
I would definitely recommend them to anybody in this thread.

 

[stuck limo]

So I guess the question is now: has V-Moda's reputation taken a serious enough hit for it to matter in the long term? Will anyone ever trust anything they have to say on their products ever again? Or is this just a non-issue, basically.