Using an impedance adapter to reduce hiss and get deeper bass???

[seanwee]

Im now using a CKR-9 with my FiiO X1.
 
Due to the 2ohm output impedance of the X1 and the low impedance + high-ish sensitivity of the CKR-9s im hearing hiss on all my tracks which was not present before i got the CKR-9s.
 
I looked into a number of treads but couldnt get a direct answer whether using an impedance adapter would reduce the hissing.
I also read that higher impedance would result in deeper bass..... is this true?
 
Any advice would be appreciated . THX!!!

 

[MindsMirror]

It depends where the hiss is coming from, and if it is affected by the volume or not. I would guess that it will help in your situation since you didn't hear a hiss in other headphones.
 
The impedance adapter would change the frequency response of your earphone in the shape of its impedance curve. Many dynamic driver headphones have an impedance peak around 100Hz which would result in a boosted frequency response around there if you use higher output impedance. I don't see a measurement of the CKR-9 on innerfidelity so I don't know what its impedance curve looks like. The ATH-CKM500 and ATH-CKX5iS both have flat impedance curves. They are closest in name to the CKR-9 to maybe yours is flat too. You'll need that information about your specific model, or ask someone who's used an impedance adapter on it to know for sure.

 

[EagleWings]

By the rule of thumb, in order to have a fairly clean background (no perceivable hiss), the output impedance of the player should be <= 1/8th of the headphone's impedance. CKR9's impedance rating is 12 Ohm, so 12/8 is 1.5 Ohm. So if you want CKR9 not to hiss you need to get a player with the output impedance less than 1.5 Ohm.
 
Like the previous member mentioned ^^, adding the impedance adapter will change the sound signature of your headphone as its frequency response is affected. 
 
Now if adding an impedance adapter changes the frequency response in such a way that the bass frequencies are enhanced, then yes you will experience a bass boost. But that will not guarantee a clean tight bass. There is a chance that the bass will sound loose and boomy. Because it is not the inherent bass characteristic of your IEM's driver. So the bass's quantity will be increased but it won't go deep. For the bass to go deep, it must be present in the nature of the IEM's driver.

 

[tomb]

Sorry, but output impedance (and lowering it) really has nothing to do with hiss.
 
In fact, increasing resistance on the output of an amp is sometimes used to control hiss.  It does this by providing further attenuation of the overall amplifier gain by adding voltage drop through the resistor.  Less gain usually means less noise and hiss.
 
It's true that if you increase the resistance, you may significantly increase the output impedance of the amplifier.  If that happens, more effects will accrue than just removing the hiss.  So, it's definitely a good idea to stay aware of both goals.
 
Here's a pretty good guide on using resistors on the output for attenuating amplifiers:
https://robrobinette.com/HeadphoneResistorNetworkCalculator.htm

 

[obobskivich]

Sorry, but output impedance (and lowering it) really has nothing to do with hiss.

In fact, increasing resistance on the output of an amp is sometimes used to control hiss.  It does this by providing further attenuation of the overall amplifier gain by adding voltage drop through the resistor.  Less gain usually means less noise and hiss.

It's true that if you increase the resistance, you may significantly increase the output impedance of the amplifier.  If that happens, more effects will accrue than just removing the hiss.  So, it's definitely a good idea to stay aware of both goals.

Here's a pretty good guide on using resistors on the output for attenuating amplifiers:
https://robrobinette.com/HeadphoneResistorNetworkCalculator.htm

Agreed. Just want to add another link:
http://en.goldenears.net/index.php?mid=KB_Columns&document_srl=1389

BA IEMs tend to have a different impedance curve than dynamic cans, just something to keep in mind when thinking about portable devices. As far as putting an impedance adapter in to kill hiss, I've done it with mixing consoles and other rack gear with my IEMs, and had no complaints - made my life quieter. It may impact battery life on your portable player.

 

[seanwee]

BA IEMs tend to have a different impedance curve than dynamic cans, just something to keep in mind when thinking about portable devices. As far as putting an impedance adapter in to kill hiss, I've done it with mixing consoles and other rack gear with my IEMs, and had no complaints - made my life quieter. It may impact battery life on your portable player.

A little more clarification please . I lost you at the mixing consoles.

 

[seanwee]

Here's a link to some CKR-9 measurements http://clarityfidelity.blogspot.my/2015/09/audio-technica-ath-ckr9-iem.html
 
Im not really sure what to make of it

 

[obobskivich]

A little more clarification please . I lost you at the mixing consoles.

By "rack gear" I meant things like CD recorders, tape decks, patchbays, etc - a lot of that stuff really epitomizes "the headphone jack is an afterthought" (some of those things don't even have volume controls h34r, and adding an impedance adapter would knock out hiss with my IEMs (and some sensitive full-size cans). I wouldn't be surprised if an impedance adapter had an impact on portable player battery life either, since you will be dissipating some power over those resistors; how much of an impact is hard to say (I wouldn't expect it to be dramatic though). The impedance #s from that link look fairly flat though, so any FR shift due to higher output impedance should be minimal (if you even hear it) - looks like a good candidate honestly.

 

[seanwee]

After looking at some more threads about output impedance i got tangled in 2 different views.
 
Would the impedance add to the output - Player (2ohm) + Adapter (100ohm) =total 102 ohm output impedance 
 
OR
 
Would the imeadnce add to the iem/headphones - IEM (12 ohm) + Adapter (100ohm) = total 112 ohm input impedance
 
OR 
                                                                                            (100ohm) adapter 
Does it split between the two? Example : Player (2ohm) +(10ohm)
                                                                                           (90ohm) + (12 ohm) IEM 

 

[obobskivich]

Depends on perspective. The headphones would see the first one; the player would see the second one (e.g. the headphones would see 102 ohm output impedance, the player would see a 112 ohm load).

 

[seanwee]

Depends on perspective. The headphones would see the first one; the player would see the second one (e.g. the headphones would see 102 ohm output impedance, the player would see a 112 ohm load).

SO ........... wouldnt it make things worse?

 

[seanwee]

Eg : More hiss cuz of massively increased output impedance?
 
102/112 is a LOT more than 1/8

 

[obobskivich]

SO ........... wouldnt it make things worse?

Worse relative to what? It will probably/likely reduce the hiss, which is your goal, and since the headphones have a fairly flat impedance response it shouldn't have any dramatic impact on their frequency response (e.g. massively change the sound).

Eg : More hiss cuz of massively increased output impedance?

102/112 is a LOT more than 1/8

There's an "Edit" feature - the little pencil icon (you will only see this on your posts; its next to the red flag you will see on all posts) - to simplify this kind of posting.

Anyways, no, it shouldn't produce more hiss, and the "1/8 rule" has nothing to do with hiss or noise (it barely stands up for frequency response because it makes assumptions that aren't always true (e.g. that a "zero ohm frequency response" is the target conditional for all headphone/speaker designs)). The biggest potential "cost" I'm envisioning is that it will reduce battery life, which may or may not even be a problem for your specific usage (e.g. if you don't need every last second between charges it probably doesn't matter).

 

[seanwee]

Worse relative to what? It will probably/likely reduce the hiss, which is your goal, and since the headphones have a fairly flat impedance response it shouldn't have any dramatic impact on their frequency response (e.g. massively change the sound).
There's an "Edit" feature - the little pencil icon (you will only see this on your posts; its next to the red flag you will see on all posts) - to simplify this kind of posting.

Anyways, no, it shouldn't produce more hiss, and the "1/8 rule" has nothing to do with hiss or noise (it barely stands up for frequency response because it makes assumptions that aren't always true (e.g. that a "zero ohm frequency response" is the target conditional for all headphone/speaker designs)). The biggest potential "cost" I'm envisioning is that it will reduce battery life, which may or may not even be a problem for your specific usage (e.g. if you don't need every last second between charges it probably doesn't matter).

THX ! That greatly clarifies things 

 

[dhruvmeena96]

Flat impedance iem - no change to quality
Uprising impedance with higher frequency - gets brighter and tighter
Resonant peak at bass - boomy frequented there


Why

Because see the impedance curve

Adding resistor may linearize resistance but it also increase voltage swing at higher impedance point, causing a boost..


For source

The amp will see Driver + resistor as 1 unit

Driver doesnt see backward


So its high resisted driver


Second


Having high impedance through resistor does 1 thing .

It generate heat and its quieter than the same equivalent of high impedance stock driver, as resistor change energy to heat.

But , when amp sees a load that big, the power drops and distortion drops significantly (opamp and power curve with clipping topic)

Plus , resistor emits out even more signal energy as heat

Which causes actual very low distortion to driver itself

So its worth it

But... Do check the impedance curve of iem