[Digeeedad]

I have an iPhone 8 plus, connected to a Dragonfly Red, using Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 80 ohm headphones. I mostly listen to music streamed through Tidal. What I am finding is that often to get a decent volume level, I need to set the volume indicator at 3/4 or more. I am pleased with the audio quality that I am getting. I understand that the Dragonfly Red can be connected to a headphone amplifier. I still have a FiiO E11 amplifier and am wondering if getting a FiiO A5, for example, might be an ok addition? I really liked having the actual volume knob on the E11 and would prefer using a volume knob, as compared to either using the too steep stepped volume buttons, on the iPhone or changing volume with the slider on the Tidal app. Would using an A5 with a Dragonfly Red negatively affect the audio that I am getting using the DFR by itself? I have connected my E11 (that had been stored unused for years) to the Iphone and DFR but haven't done any serious listening comparisons, due to it's age. Hoping the above is understandable. Any replies would be greatly appreciated!

 

[Digeeedad]

Perhaps a Fiio A3?

 

[megabigeye]

Hey there,
Yeah, the DFR does well as a DAC connected to another amp. I've used it with the FiiO E12A (predecessor to the A5) to drive my HD 650 and DT 1990, as well as some IEMs. The DFR definitely struggles with my harder to drive cans, and the FiiO helps a lot on that front; when using IEMs I don't hear any difference, so I don't think I'm getting a degraded sound.

There are a couple problems with this setup, though: first is that to use the DFR in "DAC mode" you're supposed to max the volume to get 2.1V... this is going to drain your phone's battery faster than if it's not maxed. Of course, you don't have to turn the DFR's volume all the way up, but then you will have to turn the A5 up more. On the other hand, you might not notice much of a difference in battery performance, since you're already using the DFR at 75%.

Second, this setup is definitely a kludge and unwieldy. My opinion is that the DFR alone is only marginally pocketable when connected to a phone and headphones, adding another cable and a second device makes it even less so. If you're already planning on spending $130 on the A5, why not spend a little more and get an all-in-one unit? For $30 more, the Topping NX4 DSD comes to mind, but it doesn't do MQA; $70 more gets you the iFi nano iDSD, which does MQA.

 

[Digeeedad]

Hey there,
Yeah, the DFR does well as a DAC connected to another amp. I've used it with the FiiO E12A (predecessor to the A5) to drive my HD 650 and DT 1990, as well as some IEMs. The DFR definitely struggles with my harder to drive cans, and the FiiO helps a lot on that front; when using IEMs I don't hear any difference, so I don't think I'm getting a degraded sound.

There are a couple problems with this setup, though: first is that to use the DFR in "DAC mode" you're supposed to max the volume to get 2.1V... this is going to drain your phone's battery faster than if it's not maxed. Of course, you don't have to turn the DFR's volume all the way up, but then you will have to turn the A5 up more. On the other hand, you might not notice much of a difference in battery performance, since you're already using the DFR at 75%.

Second, this setup is definitely a kludge and unwieldy. My opinion is that the DFR alone is only marginally pocketable when connected to a phone and headphones, adding another cable and a second device makes it even less so. If you're already planning on spending $130 on the A5, why not spend a little more and get an all-in-one unit? For $30 more, the Topping NX4 DSD comes to mind, but it doesn't do MQA; $70 more gets you the iFi nano iDSD, which does MQA.

Thanks much for taking the time to reply... great info! One concern I have with going the A5 route is wondering if, since it is a pretty powerful amp as compared to my old E11, it might have too much volume, paired with the DFR, even on the low gain setting? Actually, even using the E11, with the DFR sounds pretty great! Decisions, decisions... lol

 

[megabigeye]

You're welcome!

Regarding whether or not it's too much power... Hmmm... Don't quote me on this since I don't have the A5, but I think you'll be fine. Here's a quote from Brooko's review of the A5:

with the MEE P1 which definitely need amping (50 ohm impedance and 96 dB sensitivity), and at just under 12 o'clock on the pot, the P1 was perfectly driven.

and another:

the Earsonics ES3 (32 ohm, 116 dB sensitivity). This time I have the pot right down to about 11 o'clock

I believe the DT 770 80Ω is ~96dB at 1mW, so it's slightly more demanding than the MEE P1.
And if you still want a little more wiggle room with the knob, just turn down the DFR via your iPhone. I really don't think you'll hear much difference between DFR maxed and DFR slightly below max.

The E11 was a fun little amp and I enjoyed it a lot with my iPod 5.5. The E12A is quite a bit better, with lower noise floor and overall more transparent sound. I'm honestly not convince that amps get much better than the E12A unless you want colorization or more power. I think the A5 will suit you well.*

*With the caveat that an all-in-one will be a neater solution.

 

[Digeeedad]

You're welcome!

Regarding whether or not it's too much power... Hmmm... Don't quote me on this since I don't have the A5, but I think you'll be fine. Here's a quote from Brooko's review of the A5:

and another:

I believe the DT 770 80Ω is ~96dB at 1mW, so it's slightly more demanding than the MEE P1.
And if you still want a little more wiggle room with the knob, just turn down the DFR via your iPhone. I really don't think you'll hear much difference between DFR maxed and DFR slightly below max.

The E11 was a fun little amp and I enjoyed it a lot with my iPod 5.5. The E12A is quite a bit better, with lower noise floor and overall more transparent sound. I'm honestly not convince that amps get much better than the E12A unless you want colorization or more power. I think the A5 will suit you well.*

*With the caveat that an all-in-one will be a neater solution.

Thanks again! I think I'm going to stick with the DFR and try the A5. At this point, having been using the E11, I really don't mind having the separate pieces. After having been a pretty obsessive "audiophile" years ago, I've told myself that I'd never get audio equipment obsessed again but, on a much smaller scale, it seems, here I go again! lol Oh well, it's fun and the cost is pretty reasonable compared to my stereo equipment days! lol

 

[audiobomber]

Hey there,
Yeah, the DFR does well as a DAC connected to another amp. I've used it with the FiiO E12A (predecessor to the A5) to drive my HD 650 and DT 1990, as well as some IEMs. The DFR definitely struggles with my harder to drive cans, and the FiiO helps a lot on that front; when using IEMs I don't hear any difference, so I don't think I'm getting a degraded sound.

There are a couple problems with this setup, though: first is that to use the DFR in "DAC mode" you're supposed to max the volume to get 2.1V... this is going to drain your phone's battery faster than if it's not maxed.

Actually power drain on the phone will be minimal. The external headphone amp is doing the heavy lifting. All the phone has to do is supply power to the DFR. SInce the DFR is driving an amp input with very high input impedance (e.g. 47kOhms), there's only a very small current flow, thus low power requirement.

 

[Digeeedad]

Actually power drain on the phone will be minimal. The external headphone amp is doing the heavy lifting. All the phone has to do is supply power to the DFR. SInce the DFR is driving an amp input with very high input impedance (e.g. 47kOhms), there's only a very small current flow, thus low power requirement.

Interesting... Thanks for the reply!

 

[Digeeedad]

I received my new FiiO A5 yesterday afternoon. After its first charging, connected it to my Dragonfly Red and Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro 80 ohm headphones. Bass boost off and gain switch set to low. Listening primarily to Tidal streaming with Master quality, everything sounded great but truthfully, I was a bit underwhelmed. On some songs, it was necessary to turn up the volume considerably. I don't listen at really high volumes and was surprised at needing to increase it so much with the A5. I had been using my old E11 for several days and it seemed that detail and impact on the A5 was less than what I had experienced with the E11. I then tried listening to the A5, switching to high gain, thinking that was going to overwhelm my headphones, which was not the case. The impact and detail etc that had seemed missing was now very apparent, as was a more transparent and holographic feeling soundstage, now besting the E11. Comparing songs, matching volume levels, listening to both high and low gain settings, I very much prefer the switch set to high. Not sure why this is but I'm happy with the sound and purchase! Thanks again for the replies!

 

[megabigeye]

Glad you're liking it!
I'm not too surprised that you have to set the A5 to high gain, since your Beyers have pretty low sensitivity.

Just a fraction of a decibel louder volume can make things sound clearer and overall preferable. This is why it's hard to do listening tests without rigorously volume matching-- the louder one always sounds better (up to a point, of course).

Also, it's sometimes hard to hear much difference going from lesser gear to better, but it's often easier to hear the difference going from better gear to lesser. Let your ears and brain get used to the A5 for a few days, then listen to the E11 again and I'll bet you'll be able to discern more of a difference.

Enjoy!

 

[Digeeedad]

Glad you're liking it!
I'm not too surprised that you have to set the A5 to high gain, since your Beyers have pretty low sensitivity.

Just a fraction of a decibel louder volume can make things sound clearer and overall preferable. This is why it's hard to do listening tests without rigorously volume matching-- the louder one always sounds better (up to a point, of course).

Also, it's sometimes hard to hear much difference going from lesser gear to better, but it's often easier to hear the difference going from better gear to lesser. Let your ears and brain get used to the A5 for a few days, then listen to the E11 again and I'll bet you'll be able to discern more of a difference.

Enjoy!

Thanks much for the reply and good info! Very satisfied with this set-up! Now all I need to do is convince myself to just enjoy listening instead of thinking of new ways to improve it! Lol