Use OpenOffice? Micro$oft can sue you!

[wallijonn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gsferrari I have inside information that Longhorn will be pretty much unusable without 1GB of RAM (minimum). For me it has been settled :Windows for games, Linux for everything else.

Congratulations.

Anyone who is running less than 1G of ram is behind the curve. I'm thinking of going to 2G, since I have an i875 chipset. Anyone who has been playing Doom3 or FarCry has probably already found out that they really should have 1G of ram and the fastest possible vide card possible. Heck, I'm running 1G of ram on my W98SE, I just set aside 512MB for cache [vcache]. So when I go to 2G I'll just set aside 1.5G for cache.

The problem that will always plague Linux will be the drivers and utilities, since most are written for Windows. I try to stay as close to Intel standards as possible since I do not like surprises coming through things like built in sound built by VIA or disk controllers built by SIIG, HighPoint or Promise, etc. nVidia has their own problems with their chipsets, especially sound; some people had problems with the dual NICs when they installed WXP SP2, so it isn't just limited to Linux. WXP SP2 affected some 200 applications.

One can bemoan the fact that Creative cards don't work all that well under Linux. But when games like Halo and Tomb Raider: Angel of Darkness, (among a few, like Unreal II) fail to work properly under W9x, W2K or WXP, what's the difference? When you have to turn off hardware accleration to not have Halo crash to the desktop you might as well be using a cheapo sound card, not a $100 soundcard. A 'built in' chip will work just as well. Does everyone here play with EAX sound effects? I know I don't. Creative Recorder? I never use it. But then I don't use Kwaaza either. I don't have video capture or webcams, but I'm sure many others do. So for me linux is fine.

But if you tend to go off the beaten path for peripherals they may not work well under Linux. In such cases it is best to go with known manufactuers like HP (for printers), 3Com or Intel (for NICs), Sony (for cameras), Adaptec (for HD controllers), etc. Yes, there are hardware lists (HALs) for Linux just as there is for WXP. WinTel modems have been getting better with Linux, but who uses Winmodems? The cheap PCs because they bring the prices down. I've never used a Winmodem in my life; you can't give me one for free. And don't tell me that all broadband modems work well with Windows... because some do have problems.

See you guys in the hardware forums.

Getting back to this thread's main thrust - if MS does go throuugh with it I will be buying WordPerfect. Maybe Apple will write a new suite since their OS runs on top of Linux. Me, I paid $400 for my MSOffice2000 and I see no reason to pay for upgrades or new versions. When 64 bit computing comes of age I will be running a Linux 64 bit office suite not buying the new MSOffice64 for $400.

So tell me, if MS charged $100 for IE would you buy it?

 

[gsferrari]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallijonn So tell me, if MS charged $100 for IE would you buy it?

Considering the prevalence of Mozilla, Avant (?), opera and other browsers - this is a no brainer

LOL

Hell i'll use a shell script to browse the internet if I have to

but im not paying for no iexplorer.exe crap.

 

[amb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallijonn Maybe Apple will write a new suite since their OS runs on top of Linux.

Correction: MacOS X is based on a FreeBSD core, not Linux.

 

[kunwar]

if distros are needed

Gentoo, Suse or Slackware get my vote
Personally I am using Suse 9.1 professional
It rocks!
Gentoo is good too.
I just like Suse cos I used it first.

 

[Stephonovich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallijonn In a pinch you can disconnect the built in HD, install a new one as master, install Linux, change the jumper to slave and connect both HDs.

Built in HD? Eh? I built our computers from the ground up, nothing was 'built in'. In any case, yeah, I've considered using seperate HDs. Actually, right now, in our gaming box, I've got a 20GB drive that's doing nothing but acting as a swap partition and Photoshop scratch disk. I must say, it sped things up a fair bit, too. In any case, this is all up in the air. By the time I head off to college, a midrange computer can probably be built for somewheres in the reigon of $300, maybe less if I can scavenge parts from upgrades.

Quote:

I take it that you do not regularly upgrade your computer? With all my upgrades I have given away 5 PCs away in the past to family members.

I upgrade 'em as often as my parents will pay for

Once I get a job, I'll be making my own, which will be upgraded when I feel like it. Our current upgrade rate is on a per-need basis, basically. For instance, we're going to switch over to a Gigabit and 802.11b/g network fairly soon. I'll have to come up with reasoning to get the money, but shouldn't be hard. My mom already thinks Wi-Fi is a great thing, and my dad likes fast transfers. So they'll both be happy.

Quote:

Anyone who is running less than 1G of ram is behind the curve. I'm thinking of going to 2G, since I have an i875 chipset. Anyone who has been playing Doom3 or FarCry has probably already found out that they really should have 1G of ram and the fastest possible vide card possible. Heck, I'm running 1G of ram on my W98SE, I just set aside 512MB for cache [vcache]. So when I go to 2G I'll just set aside 1.5G for cache.

For those of us who aren't blessed with a steady supply of disposable income, we make do with what we have. The only reason I managed to get a 9800 Pro is due to my dad working at Gateway, and this points system they had. So that was free. Before that, it was running a Rage 128 32MB card that he 'rescued' from work. (hey, it was destined for the shredder... we gave it a home) And yes, I ran played modern games on it. Deus Ex, NFS: Porsche Unleashed, UT2004... I could usually wring about 30fps in most games, which was fine with me. Granted, UT2004 only managed 13fps, even at 640x480 with all visuals turned off, but you know what? I learned to compensate, and I was pretty decent. The same with Counter-Strike, when I used to play that. We had dial-up, and so my pings usually ranged from 200 (on a good day) to 500 (on a bad day). 300 was the usual. I can't tell you how many times I was taunted and told to "go get a better connection". Fools; we couldn't get one. It wasn't physically possible, as we were too far out. However, I learned to compensate for the lag, and claimed the #1 spot quite a few times. Some of my best memories are from CS... single handedly saving the CT team by taking out 4 seperate Ts and defusing the bomb... and my favorite, getting taunted by a l33t d00d about my ping and how sucky I was, and then next round, deliberately hunting him down and getting a beautiful headshot in with my Scout. He disconnected after that round, oddly enough

Anyway, bottom line, I do just fine with my setup. 512MB RAM is nothing to sneeze at. I can get 50fps on average in UT2004 at 1024x768 with all the eye candy on, including AA/AF. 60 on smaller maps. Granted, the video card's flash modded and OC'd way past even XT levels, but hey, it works. Also of note, I've played UT2004 on top of the line systems. P4 3.4GHz, 2GB RAM, 9800 XT 256MB, Audigy 2 ZS Platinum, the works. Yeah, it was a bit smoother, since it was running waaay past 60fps (never benched it, but it was up there), but the load times weren't any better. That's what suprised me; that my system loads levels just as fast as these. Quite frankly, I can live with 50fps, and do quite well.

Oh, and as for 2GB RAM on a W98 machine... why? First Edition doesn't handle more than 256MB, moreover, will run slower with it. Second Edition (what I assume you're running) doesn't handle more than 512MB very well at all. The fixes and registry tweaks can help some, but still, it just wasn't designed to handle that. Why waste those resources when upgrading to 2K/XP (or Linux...) would make such better use of them?

Quote:

Does everyone here play with EAX sound effects?

Yup; as many as my SB Live! X-Gamer can handle. I fondly remember being awed at the effects Thief (the original) had as you walked on different surfaces, and the echoes and whatnot of voices. I dunno why everyone badmouths EAX; it can add quite a bit to games if you take the time to listen.

 

[wallijonn]

AMB,

Okay, the Mac OS is based on a derevitive of Unix...

What Office Suite does it use? Is it open to the same ligitation which MS proposes against Open Office? Or is it a matter of paying some sort of licensing fee to MS to be able to exchange .doc, etc. with MSO? Was this capability reversed engineered?

For that matter does Acrobat pay a licensing fee to MS for being able to convert a MSO document into a .pdf since their AcrobatWriter is a plugin for MSWord?


Stephonovich,

I use W98SE because I can. I also use W2KP and WXPP in caddies. W98Se is a completely stripped down W98 without all the bells and whistles - it is just for single player gaming, without an internet connection (you can't get more secure than that), media players, accessories, etc. It's just W98 with DX9.

No, Halo was still slow on it even with 1G of ram; it ran much better on WXPP.

It's basically my test bed for gaming. Basically it saves me the trouble of having to turn off all services, in W2KP or WXPP, to get max performance. The W98 caddie also serves as my Linux caddie since I will not put a dual boot onto W2K or WXP.

As to Creative EAX - those features are inside the game. What I was referring to was listening to music with Hall or Stadium effects, etc.

When I said "built-in" HD, I mean the single HD inside your computer. All I am saying is to add another HD, but to install the new OS as if it is the only HD in the system. If you connect a new HD in series with the old HD and then install the OS onto the new OS you will create a dual-boot loader. For example, if you have W98 on HD0 and then add an HD1 and install WXP, you will install a multi OS boot loader onto HD0. If HD0 craps out, for whatever reason, you may not be able to boot from HD1 since the boot loader is on HD0. If however you install both OSes discretely and use the BIOS to select the boot loader you should never have any loader type problems.

Now why would you want to? Because certain Linux distros, like FreeBSD (at least the last time I tried it) change the HD format type to CHS in the BIOS. I had this problem with Red Hat 9 when I wiped FreeBSD. A 20G drive magically changed to 10G. What? Besides changing over to LBA after doing a low level format, I had to low level format the drive to W98, WME, NT and WXP before the 10G magically came back. Now that was a learning experience!

Likewise, have you ever wiped Linux and then tried to use it for Windows? It is not just a matter of doing a quick format since a quick format will not rewrite the Master Boot Record. You have to go into Linux's fdisk and undo all partitions manually. I had problems doing a low level format on a Linux HD. (It was all connected with CHS being set in the BIOS, automatically. You may have the same time of problems when going from ext2 to ext3, or formatting it in ext3 and then installing an ext2 OS, like Red Hat). Typical problem: http://www.ozzu.com/ftopic21500.html (It's typical for me since I have messed around with FreeBSD, OpenBSD, Slackware, SUSE, Red Hat, Fedora, Gentoo, IPCOP, Mandrake, Debian, Bit-Defender and Immunix).

These type of problems I refuse to get anywhere near NTFS4 or 5. (But I would use GRUB). I can't imagine what may happen if you install WXP and after installing Linux the drive type is changed over to CHS in the BIOS. Grub may be better than LILO in this respect; but you can still screw up SUSE depending on whether you use GRUB commands for a LILO boot loader. I prefer GRUB so I choose to stick with Red Hat / Mandrake, et. al. I believe SUSE and Slackware use LILO while Gentoo, Fedora, Mandrake use GRUB.

If you don't know what a "magic number" is... you will soon if you use LILO. Ever hear of disk managers, like "ON-Track" and "EZDrive"? You may have problems if you use Western Digital's On-Track utility ("Data LifeGuard" in conjunction with "S.M.A.R.T.") which offsets HD addresses. I've never used it again after experimenting with it in WME.

From http://www.freepgs.com/smart/ :
Quote:

... The latest SMART III technology not only monitors hard drive activities but adds failure prevention by attempting to detect and repair sector errors.

I take no chances and turn off S.M.A.R.T. in the BIOS. If my disk drive dies, it dies. And before you condemn me, how many of you regulary look at your WXP error logs? I thought so.

see http://www.linux.org/docs/ldp/howto/...k-HOWTO-9.html and http://gnu.signal42.com/software/par.../parted_3.html

So, what anti-virus programs fool around with the MBR?

 

[Stephonovich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallijonn I use W98SE because I can. I also use W2KP and WXPP in caddies. W98Se is a completely stripped down W98 without all the bells and whistles - it is just for single player gaming, without an internet connection (you can't get more secure than that), media players, accessories, etc. It's just W98 with DX9.

Well, if it works for you, bravo. I personally like XP more than 98SE, but then, I've never had one solely for single player gaming. They've always been multi-use, as such, they have word processors, Photoshop, various internet utlilities, and everything else that goes along with that. As for services in XP, after using BlackViper's Service 411 a few times, I figured out what I wanted and what I didn't. I've never considered the 20MB of RAM I may save by disabling everything worthwhile just to get 1fps more in games

Quote:

As to Creative EAX - those features are inside the game. What I was referring to was listening to music with Hall or Stadium effects, etc.

Ah, right then. No, I've never used the effects for music. They absolutely suck. Only useful if you're extremely bored and want to see what a band sounds like as chipmunks.

As for all the HD stuff... I see what you're meaning now. Sounds like a bit of a pain, but I can see your point. Still, methinks I'll probably end up just building seperate computers. More fun anyway. Besides, for word processing, internet, and the like in Linux, the only thing I really need heavy processor power for is compiling (I'll likely be using Gentoo), and that's what distcc is for.

Quote:

I take no chances and turn off S.M.A.R.T. in the BIOS. If my disk drive dies, it dies. And before you condemn me, how many of you regulary look at your WXP error logs? I thought so.

I for one am a big fan of S.M.A.R.T. And yes, I check logs fairly regularly, either with a quick check in the BIOS, or a very detailed rundown of all the parameters using one of WD's utilities. That being said, I've found they aren't always that great. My mom's computer is running on two tiny drives (a 6GB and 3GB, IIRC) that are both on their deathbeds. Making a terrible racket when accessed. By all rights, they should have quit years ago. But they keep ticking. I'll replace 'em with a 20GB next time I format it, which will probably be soon.

 

[wallijonn]

Stephonovich,

Thanks for that link. Man, that brings back old memories of when I first got WXPP.

I have gotten used to working with caddies since the days when I need W98SE with DX7 and another with DX8. Some games just didn't play nice.

I like WXPP but I still prefer W2KP. Maybe it's just Luna. My WXPP basically is set up to look and work like W2KP. When people call me for support it throws me off for awhile - then I tell them to switch over to Classic View so that they can get to the services admin icons.

There are other little things that bug me, like Media Player 9 and 10. I still prefer ACDSee over the viewer in WXP, for example.

But mainly I don't like installing a ton of stuff onto one disk. So I'll use another disk to check out functionality and compatibility. Things like FireFox PR is now running on WXP but I am thinking of going back to 0.93 because when I go to a site and a mini bar pops up saying that a plug-in can be installed... well after a thousand times it gets to be a pain. I've never have been able to set my desktop picture with FireFox; I have to open the picture with IE or ACDSee to set it as my background.

My internet caddie is still using FF0.93 even though today I am working through WXPP. I now find a spyware that SpyWareBlaster can't protect against. SWShredder is fine though. http://www.javacoolsoftware.com/spywareblaster.html
Of course it's in IE.

But at least I have SpywareGuard running in my system tray. http://www.javacoolsoftware.com/products.html

P.S.: I have found out that this is a false positive. Someone said that InfraView did 4 of his machines in.

And when a game won't work correctly in WXP you know there's something wrong. W9x I can understand... So for a lot of my older FPS games I prefer W9x. Those games which are written explicitly for WXP (they save their games to the 'My Documents' folder) I will install on WXPP or W2KP. But since I use restricted accounts a lot I sometimes come across a game which I have to run using admin privs (right click, run as Admin). These I relegate to W9x.

The problem with some games is the way they save. Halo was a pain to save as was Unreal II. It took me awhile but I was finally able to save my game unto CDR, rebuild a system, and restore the game. This is what you go through when you move your WXP license from one machine to another. Or you have problems imaging a new drive from an old one and must do a clean install onto a new drive. Or you install SP2, for example, and it fubars. Or something really strange happens and you have to reuild your user accounts. Now that's a pain!

As far as religiously reading error logs I find most people never bother reading them. Is the Event Log viewable if WXP isn't in Classic mode? (It's been too long... )

Now if OpenOffice could only be better integrated into GNOME....

So, who's installed OpenOffice on their Windows machines? Anyone running GIMP on the Win32 machines?

Now if only Ximian Evolution would port their app. over to Windows...

 

[Stephonovich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallijonn I like WXPP but I still prefer W2KP. Maybe it's just Luna. My WXPP basically is set up to look and work like W2KP.

I've used 2K and don't mind it a bit. However, with other family members that aren't as technically literate, XP is a bit easier for them. However, I do insist on setting it to Classic view. Luna is just ugly, you're right. And wastes system resources. Besides, they've used 9x, so it's nothing new to them.

Quote:

Or you install SP2, for example, and it fubars.

Precisely why I've held off on installing it. When it first was released, I thought "cool, it'll finally patch a few things up". Then when the first reports of 4 out of 5 computers crashing (later lowered to 3 out of 10, or something, I believe) after it being installed, I decided to wait. Besides, being on dial-up, it'd take quite awhile anyway. Then when I started reading about people having to completely format and reload just to get SP2 to work properly... um, no. I'll re-evaluate in a month.

Quote:

As far as religiously reading error logs I find most people never bother reading them. Is the Event Log viewable if WXP isn't in Classic mode? (It's been too long... )

No, but I'm, not most people. Whenever anything goes wrong, acts weird, or even if a program takes an abnormal time to launch, I check errors logs, run BootVis, see if anything's hanging... I like knowing what's going on in the computer. As for your other question, no idea. I don't run Enhanced, or whatever M$ calls default XP.

Quote:

So, who's installed OpenOffice on their Windows machines? Anyone running GIMP on the Win32 machines?

Raises hand. I dumped Office2K almost 2 years ago. Got fed up with giant installs that took forever and completely messed up the system if you accidentally rebooted during the middle (guilty...) of the process. Also the crashing. I believe the first version of OO I had was 1.01. Never looked back since. I always try to educate people about it, too. For instance, a friend and I gave a presentation about designing and presenting effective presentations for a 4-H thing this year. (also got paid mucho $$$ from UNL for 'travel expenses'. Hehe. They even bought us lunch) We used OpenOffice to design it (actually, we got it from another 4-Her who's at a boarding school who got it from a friend who made a very similar presentation, but I digress), and pointed this out to the people. Also made mention of the fact that it's free and legal, as they'd be needing presentation software, obviously. Granted, most people have a copy of Office sitting around somewhere, or access to a library that has one, but you'd be suprised at the number who didn't.

As for GIMP, I've had it, yes. A couple of friends of mine swear by it and use it almost exclusively. I'm a photographer, and so it just doesn't quite cut it. Photoshop just does things a little better. But for a free product, it's certainly amazing.

 

[gsferrari]

I use open office too. I found a plugin for native Latex format recognition and ive cut down my conversion time from textbook to pdf format by more than half.

Open Office RULES!!

 

[wallijonn]

Stephonovich,

You're a pisser.

LOL! I laughed all through that missive. thanks.

I ordered the SP2 CD from MS. I had absolutely no troubles with it. But, then I'm running an Intel D875PBZ mobo, so that helped.

OO install how-to / FAQ:
http://www.math.umd.edu/~dcarrera/op...stallation.pdf

On WinGIMP: http://www.wingimp.org/download.php

gsferrari,

I can feel your joy.

 

[Stephonovich]

Well, I've got a fresh installation of Windows XP coming up, as my replacement mobo will be arriving tomorrow. And you know how Windows feels about you adding hardware, much less a completely new motherboard. I'll snag some image capturing software and take some screenshots. I can host images on a shared site I'm currently helping run, Digital Crack. </end shameless plug> No, mods, it has nothing to do with drugs. Actually, there's not much content up there right now. We're currently battling with various blog software. The forums are starting to get entertaining, though. But I digress... I'll either host the pictures there, or TinyPic. TinyPic, in case no one's heard of it, is like TinyURL. Free Linux-based image hosting, with pictures that last for either 10,000 hits, or 30 days of no hits, whatever comes first. Maximum size of 250KB, JPG, GIF, PNG, and BMP accepted. No offensive pictures, but for stuff like auctions and the like, it's awesome. But yeah, I can write up an FAQ.

As for M$ vs. Sun Java... To be quiet honest, I never understood why this was necessary, or a good thing, but I did it anyways, seeing's how M$ has managed things in the past. I always tried to keep it up to date, and was also thrilled that AutoPatcher included Sun's Java in the install. But anyways, can anyone provide a link or quick reasoning why Sun's is superior, other than the legal reasons?

And yes, you running that Intel mobo is likely why you aren't having any problems. They're extremely stable. I myself am an AMD guy, but to each their own. Intel definitely isn't slow; I know someone who has 5 screaming machines, all based on that mobo. I just don't like paying a couple extra hundred for the privilege of owning the Intel name

 

[Welly Wu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wallijonn Now if OpenOffice could only be better integrated into GNOME.... So, who's installed OpenOffice on their Windows machines? Anyone running GIMP on the Win32 machines? Now if only Ximian Evolution would port their app. over to Windows...

Wallijonn:

I just installed OpenOffice 1.1.3RC and Mozilla FireFox 1.0PR and ThunderBird 0.8 (can't wait until 1.0) and GIMP 2.0.4 and DVDShrink 3.2.0.4 and IRfanView 3.92 and GAIM 1.0 and FileZilla 2.2.8b and StarDownloader 1.43 and KeyNote 1.6.5 and PlexTools Professional 2.16 and SpyBot 1.3 and xPlorer2 Lite 1.0.3 and X-Setup Professional 6.6 and IAmNotAGeek Paranoid.

I guess you can say that I'm a prime candidate for Open Source Initiative and Linux!

PS: I will be studying for my GRE exams throughout the next few months. It is the only thing standing in my way before my Masters of Fine Arts in English Creative Writing degree. I'll be looking into Rutgers, Rowan University, and Farleigh Dickinson University for MFA English Creative Writing programs. So, I'll be busy. My point is that I'll need a new computer.

I'm seriously thinking about building my own high end dual boot Micro$oft Windows XP Professional SP2 and Fedora Code 2 Linux machine. Desktop only. At Barnes & Noble, there is a periodical called Build Your Own PC. It's got "recipes" for building your own PC complete with specific tailor made PCs in mind (entertainment, Linux, servers, Windows, etc.) along with a spec sheet of parts and different budgets. It's high time I learned how to build my own PC. The knowledge and experience I'll gain building my own desktop dual boot PC will be eye opening.

Currently, I have a Toshiba Satellite 1405-S171 notebook PC with a 1.5GHz Celeron processor, 256MB of RAM, and a 30GB 4200RPM HDD along with a 16X DVD-ROM/CD-RW drive and USB 1.1 ports. It is too old. When I am ready for graduate studies, I don't think it will cut the mustard. I think it is time to upgrade.

So, I'm thinking that I will start saving up carefully. Working real hard (as I do always at B&N) and saving carefully. I've got $200 USD Direct Student Loan bills each month but that's taken care of within 4 days of work per month (my bill is 180.54 + 10% "bill buster" to speed up the time it takes to pay off my debt and lower accrued interest charges on the principal. That is is ~ $198.50). I think my budget for such a "high end" PC is about $2500 USD or less.

So, I will have to rely on the PC geeks. No Grado PS-1 for me. Building my first PC is a must for 2005. My deadline is by September 2005 which is when I will begin graduate studies.

I'll probably give away my existing notebook PC and my external Plextor drives along with my Belkin USB2 CardBus first to a family member or relatives (doubt that anyone needs all that since most of my family and relatives are very well off) or I'll give it to a Head-Fi member. Who?

 

[Stephonovich]

How's Linux coming along for you, Welly? Any problems installing/configuring, if you've gotten there yet?

Oh yes, once you have it all set up the way you like it, and you've learned you way around it, your first Linux Techie task is to configure and compile your kernel

On a sidenote, how's Thunderbird? I convinced my mom to use it, citing it's spam filtering, but we moved shortly after, so she never got much of a chance to try it out. I was very impessed with it's importing of Eudora contacts and emails, though.

 

[Welly Wu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephonovich How's Linux coming along for you, Welly? Any problems installing/configuring, if you've gotten there yet? Oh yes, once you have it all set up the way you like it, and you've learned you way around it, your first Linux Techie task is to configure and compile your kernel On a sidenote, how's Thunderbird? I convinced my mom to use it, citing it's spam filtering, but we moved shortly after, so she never got much of a chance to try it out. I was very impessed with it's importing of Eudora contacts and emails, though.

Steponovich:

I just edited my reply! ThunderBird is killer. You must try it out on whichever operating system you use...or all of them! It's so frickin' easy to install, configure, and use that it's a no brainer. The anti-SPAM filtering is very powerful and it just saved me a good $60 USD from having to buy a 3rd party anti-SPAM filtering program or some cheap Baynesian hack job. ThunderBird is brilliant for its' effective simplicity. I urge you to try it. Mozilla is onto something here with ThunderBird. I got rid of M$ Office XP Professional and that dreaded Outlook 2002 program because it was a hunking pile of horse doo-doo. Too much bloat. Too slow. Resource hog. Too inefficient and idiosyncratic.