[Doc Sarvis]

I just came from a matinee of this movie with my family, and I loved it. While the movie will certainly create polarized opinions, I'm in the "love it" camp (but I also loved Thin Red Line).

Anyway, my post here is about the use of the opening arpeggio from Das Rheingold at several points during the film, including the opening in which we see the initial landing of the Jamestown colonists. It was incredibly effective; Wagner knew what he was doing when he created his mythical dawn of time with that music. The scene even features swimming Rhinemaidens! It's also featured at the end, in a poignant manner that left me in tears.

It's good to hear Wagner's music, free of its bad associations with the man and the misuse of his music, being used to convey its universal theme.

 

[antiant]

although i have no knowledge of this type of music (i know who wagner is tho...more so on discussing this type of music), from i guess a "laymen's" point of view i definitely agree...i saw the movie...the cinematography as well as the music is amazing, it all fused together so perfectly to me...i'm guessing your not liking that misuse of his music in the "college atmosphere" and "pop culture"

 

[redshifter]

i'm a malick fan too, and can't wait to see this.

john boorman's film "excalibur" also makes very good use of wagner. i believe "sigfreid's rhine journey" is played complete at the end of the film. prepare to get goosebumps.

 

[PSmith08]

It appears that I am going to have to go see this movie.

 

[Doc Sarvis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by antiant i'm guessing your not liking that misuse of his music in the "college atmosphere" and "pop culture"

No, I was talking about the fact that Wagner the man was a very unpleasant guy on many levels, and that his music was used by the Nazis for propaganda purposes (long after Wagner had died). It's good to see his stuff (which is some of the greatest music ever written) used in a setting like The New World, entirely free of those associations.

It's a great movie - I can't get it out of my mind. The vision of pre-Jamestown Virginia as a metaphor for Wagner's Rhine (complete with underwater shots) is just one of the extremely powerful statements the movie makes. Having said this, Malick is not for everybody - I remember seeing "Thin Red Line" in 1998 - people sitting behind me kept talking about how un-like "Saving Private Ryan" it was. Malick's movies are like extended visual poems.

 

[antiant]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc Sarvis No, I was talking about the fact that Wagner the man was a very unpleasant guy on many levels, and that his music was used by the Nazis for propaganda purposes (long after Wagner had died). It's good to see his stuff (which is some of the greatest music ever written) used in a setting like The New World, entirely free of those associations.

oh ok...yes i've heard of this...completely slipped my mind

 

[Riordan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc Sarvis No, I was talking about the fact that Wagner the man was a very unpleasant guy on many levels, and that his music was used by the Nazis for propaganda purposes (long after Wagner had died). It's good to see his stuff (which is some of the greatest music ever written) used in a setting like The New World, entirely free of those associations.

doc,
are you sure? entirely free of those associations? even on a subtle malick-level?
i'm not doubting your perception, just bringing my own prejudices in - haven't seen the movie yet, but i'm very much looking forward to it.

redshifter,
is that really wagner in 'excalibur'? i only remember 'o fortuna' out of carl orff's carmina burana (another great composer with mixed associations because of his standing in nazi germany).

 

[Doc Sarvis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riordan doc, are you sure? entirely free of those associations? even on a subtle malick-level? i'm not doubting your perception, just bringing my own prejudices in - haven't seen the movie yet, but i'm very much looking forward to it. redshifter, is that really wagner in 'excalibur'? i only remember 'o fortuna' out of carl orff's carmina burana (another great composer with mixed associations because of his standing in nazi germany).

Open to interpretation I suppose, but I detected no irony at all - it's the opening Das Rheingold arpeggio, used to portray a "new world". The visual of native americans swimming like Rhinemaidens underscores the point.

Excalibur features Siegfried's funeral march from Gotterdamerung.

 

[vcoheda]

I've already posted about this in the lounge, but it bears repeating that The New World is one of the greatest films I have ever seen. No other movie presents such an amazing montage of colors, sights, and sounds. It is an emotional and visual epic. And the use of Wagner's prelude from das Rheingold (to signify the new world motif) and the adagio from Mozart's piano concerto No. 23 (for love) is very effective. Both are favorite pieces of mine.

An extraordinary movie. A must see.