[Author]

Hi folks. I’ve been learning about the audiophile community and equipment over the past few months, and it’s been an enjoyable and interesting experience. I haven’t been able to figure out the use case for DAPs, however. Especially when I see players go for 1k and more, I know that I must be missing something. Can anyone elaborate?

Specifically:
Are they primarily designed for higher end IEMs?
Is there a noticeable (audible) difference between the use of an iPhone or iPod Touch and a DAP?
Can I use Tidal from a DAP?
Does, for example, a DAP work better as a noticeably higher quality source source to a DAC/AMP than a computer or iPhone? — reading this post over, this is probably the key question.
What makes DAP use different from using an iPhone connected to a smaller portable amp (other than the obvious — one less item to carry)?

Thanks for your help..

 

[baskingshark]

Hi folks. I’ve been learning about the audiophile community and equipment over the past few months, and it’s been an enjoyable and interesting experience. I haven’t been able to figure out the use case for DAPs, however. Especially when I see players go for 1k and more, I know that I must be missing something. Can anyone elaborate?

Specifically:
Are they primarily designed for higher end IEMs?
Is there a noticeable (audible) difference between the use of an iPhone or iPod Touch and a DAP?
Can I use Tidal from a DAP?
Does, for example, a DAP work better as a noticeably higher quality source source to a DAC/AMP than a computer or iPhone? — reading this post over, this is probably the key question.
What makes DAP use different from using an iPhone connected to a smaller portable amp (other than the obvious — one less item to carry)?

Thanks for your help..

I only use budget/midfi DAPs, but they do sound better than the standard non LGV type smartphones to me (in terms of dynamics, perhaps microdetails/soundstage/imaging/instrument separation). Less hiss too with highly sensitive IEMs. Also DAPs have an advantage over some smartphones in that it doesn't use the phone battery or phone memory (assuming you carry lossless files and do not have SD card support on the phone). Though u need to carry 2 devices.

I found that a cheaper option than DAPs is to use a dongle DAC/AMP connected to the smartphone, but this of course uses phone batter and memory, but is worth a consideration if you find DAPs too expensive.

 

[Garney]

I recently purchased my first DAP (a second hand Hiby R5). I too had a hard time justifying the use case but ultimately made the jump. It's early days with the R5 but so far below are my likes, annoyances and observations compared to my previous setup (iPhone 8 Plus with Apple dongle).

• I listen to music at work anywhere between 1 - 6 hours per day. I also take a majority of my work calls on my cellphone. Using the same device for both music listening and calls was crushing my iPhone battery, nearly depleted by the end of a 9 hour work day. Now the DAP does the music duty and the iPhone can just be a phone / email checker.
• I'm a Spotify premium subscriber and stream a lot of my music. I also download a lot of it for offline use (did this more so pre-COVID when traveling frequently for work). My phone was near full with 200 GB's of music (256GB storage). I also listen to A LOT of bands that do not host their music on streaming services and I have FLAC files purchased from Bandcamp that I could not take advantage of on my iPhone. Now, I have a 512GB micro SD in the Hiby and it's got both my Spotify offline library and all of my FLAC files in one place. This was the biggest selling point for me.
• You can use Tidal, Spotify, etc. on some DAPs. Many popular DAPs run full Android OS and allow the use of the Google Play Store where you can download 3rd party apps. This was an absolute must for me and the Hiby fits the bill fine. Fiio, iBasso, Sony and Hiby all have DAPs that run Android as far as I know. I'm not sure how other brands such as Shangling, Astell & Kern, etc. handle 3rd party apps / streaming services.
• Audibly, I really can't hear much of a difference between the DAP and my iPhone w/dongle. I'm using the 4.4mm balanced out and there's certainly more power / volume headroom, but that's not necessarily needed as I use relatively easy to drive IEMs (NM2+ are my daily drivers at the moment). I do like that I have a system wide EQ and that was something missing from the iPhone (Spotify's EQ is not great and obviously only works with Spotify).
• Negatives / annoyances:
  • My guess is that most DAPs won't be nearly as fluid or responsive in terms as UX as a late model smartphone. The R5 certainly isn't but it doesn't really need to be. The interface is completely usable, and I get along fine with Android, but it certainly lags compared to a new smartphone.
  • It's a second device you have to remember to bring with you and charge. And add new music to. Not a huge deal but more work than having just one device to do it all.

I don't feel you need high end or TOTL IEM's to justify a DAP. I was also considering just buying a portable DAC/AMP to use with my iPhone but that seemed too clunky. DAPs are generally pretty small in form factor and are easily pocketable which is nice for on the go listening.

All in all, I feel like the DAP was a worthwhile purchase and I don't think I'll ever not have one moving forward. Sorry this rambled a bit and I didn't directly answer your specific questions, but hopefully it was somewhat helpful.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

I haven’t been able to figure out the use case for DAPs, however.

1. You're not allowed a smartphone with a camera and mobile internet at work.

2. You like a certain earphone. You hate charging two earpieces in a case. You like a certain phone as a phone. Certain phone's manufacturer ditched 3.5mm jacks. You also hate dongles, much less one with a chip in it.

3. You also use it as a music server at home, ex HiFiMans and Fiio X-series with docks that keep them upright; or Fiio M-series where your smartphone can serve as a remote so you need to set it upright on the desk. (vs a phone that now you can't get custom docks for and will also require a DAC)

4. You have a rather high sensitivity headphone in a transportable system that you use at other locations and the DAP is nearly as powerful as the average portable amp you might as well just bring a powerbank than have a DAC-HPamp hooked up to your phone.

5. You also prefer drag and drop for file management for the audio player.

Are they primarily designed for higher end IEMs?

Depends.

If you mean "lower sensitivity, multiple driver custom in-ear monitors," then most of them are.

If you mean "kinda expensive but still very high sensitivity in-ear monitor," then some can still have low noise. Some might have been geared more for lower sensitivity IEMs or headphones (lower relative to IEMs, high relative to headphones in general), and may have a lot of audible noise when you put a low impedance, high sensitivity IEM on it.

Is there a noticeable (audible) difference between the use of an iPhone or iPod Touch and a DAP?

Depends.

Are your IEMs too low impedance that you're causing the damping factor on the iDevice to drop? Or are they too high and not too high sensitivity either that you're cranking it up to the point where the THD+N is noticeably higher? Is the sensitivity too low that you have to crank them up that you're getting higher THD+N?

Can I use Tidal from a DAP?

Some running modified Android can run Tidal I think but if you mean "seamless like my iDevice" stop reading now and never, ever, look at a DAP ever again the same way I tore my hair out figuring out why iTunes wants to load everything when everything doesn't fit and I can't figure out how to choose only what goes in. If you're baffled by all that, walk away. Just walk away. That's a perfect reason for why you're not the target market for DAPs.

Does, for example, a DAP work better as a noticeably higher quality source source to a DAC/AMP than a computer or iPhone? — reading this post over, this is probably the key question.

Depends.

Are you cranking it up high enough to start hearing distortion that is easily audible (for whatever reason, like you hate good hearing or the sensitivity is too low/impedance is too high) or you just prefer a slightly cleaner (or in some cases deliberately warmer) sound?

Are you tired of charging two separate pieces in a small case and prefer dealing with cables? Or are you tired of dongles and just want normal analogue cables?

What makes DAP use different from using an iPhone connected to a smaller portable amp (other than the obvious — one less item to carry)?

DAP : You might not hear or feel the iPhone when a call comes in

iPhone with DAC-HPamp : No mic contact on the DAC-HPamp, so now you have to put that strapped together brick up to your lips; you might be able to run a more powerful DAC-HPamp (vs whatever amp circuit is in many DAPs, which in many cases now, is still an integrated audio chip comparable to some smartphones' audio chips but without the battery-sipping, battery-benchmark reviewer acing limits that phone manufacturers put in there; see Fiio M-series vs X-series)

 

[Deolum]

"Are they primarily designed for higher end IEMs?"

Yes, IEM + Dap is the classic portable solution. There are some IEMs that respond more sensitive to the source and others that can easily be driven by a phone (like 64 Audio). However Daps have become pretty powerful in the meantime and can now substitute a whole desktop setup. One example for that would be the Hiby R8.

"Can I use Tidal from a DAP"

Most modern Daps support streaming services. This doesn't apply to all though. Some Daps are only usable for stored files. You have to look it up for each Dap.

"Does, for example, a DAP work better as a noticeably higher quality source source to a DAC/AMP than a computer or iPhone."

That is the question. Its maybe not better than a computer but in my experience a phones usb out is the worst source for a system. I never used a Daps usb out. I think a Dap only is way better than phone + dac/amp but there may be people who disagree.

 

[jmwant]

Daps are not necessarily designed for high end iems. It's designed to provide better sq and convenience than listening to the music with phone. Even a $100 dap should sound better than a phone,unless the phone is lg v or g series and the dap is worse than average.
Many non android daps now offer Tidal and Qobuz streaming.
When used as transport, it only works as a user interface and nothing else. Yeah if you use a usb powered dac, a dap might not be a able to provide enough power to reach the dacs best potential performance

 

[Taz777]

My DAP (a Cayin N6ii) is a dual-purpose DAP. It’s main purpose is to provide a single source of music for my local files and streamed songs for portable use - e.g. when going for walks or (once the lockdown is over) travelling. For that purpose is provides better sound quality than my phones, although whether or not I can hear that improvement on a noisy plane is debatable. In a quiet, still environment I can hear better quality audio.

The second purpose is to act as a digital transport to my home audio systems where it provides the music in digital form and my audio systems convert the music into analogue. This saves me having to have dedicated streamers. A phone could perform this duty too but it ties up the phone.

A side effect of these use cases is that the battery on my phone lasts longer.

 

[Deferenz]

Hi folks. I’ve been learning about the audiophile community and equipment over the past few months, and it’s been an enjoyable and interesting experience.

There has been a good few explanations on this thread regarding Daps. I just wanted to mention sanity and your wallet

I don’t know how far you are along on your audiophile journey but be warned, in a nice way, that the pursuit of perfect sound never ends. It starts off buying a reasonably priced Dap and IEMs and all is well for a short time. Then you start to think, ‘I wonder if there is something better out there?’ To cut a long journey short, you will end up with a £3,500 Dap, £4,000 IEMs and a cable costing north of £2,000. And even with all that I guarantee that at some point you will again say, ‘I wonder if there is something better out there?’

But on the good side it is a fantastic journey to be on if you love getting to that next level every time.

To go back to Daps, I think someone mention DAC/dongles. These are a relatively cheaper way of getting into this region of sound quality. There are a few around at the cheaper level but there are two particular ones I would suggest. The first is the Lotoo PAW S1 and the other is the Luxury & Precision W2. Both are reasonably priced and are of a very high quality. I have the S1 and it costs around $145. I run this out of my MacBook Pro and the sound is excellent. Is it as good as a high end Dap? I don’t think so, but in all honesty it is not a huge way off.

 

[shaitan667]

I don't drive, so I spend alot of time walking and riding on public transport. I pretty much don't leave the house without something to listen to music with.
Historically I'd just been using mobile phones. Then I got a set of headphones that my phone couldn't drive properly - it was a Galaxy Nexus, and they were the first gen Sennheiser Momentum Over Ears.

I ended up getting the HTC One (M7) due to it's better audio output.

Then I found out about Fiio.

I just really like having a dedicated player that does one thing really well, and not have to worry about battery drain on my phone, or notifications or phonecalls or whatever.
I've also got alot of FLAC files, and streaming isn't always viable.