[GnuB]

Symptom: Gritty sound when scrolling similar to the snap, crackle, pop of Rice Krispies.  It is particularly annoying because I like to create and listen to playlists on the fly and scrolling / navigating in the players or in a separate browser window causes the noise.
 
Other Head-Fi articles discussing the problem
http://www.head-fi.org/t/289455/usb-noise/15
http://www.head-fi.org/t/802866/usb-sound-card-noise
http://www.head-fi.org/t/498441/firewire-usb-noise-reduction
 
My experience 
Windows XP and Windows 10 PC USB 
16 / 44.1 Lossless WMA, VBR WMA, FLAC and MP3
 
Media Players:
Windows Media Player
Groove (directsound or whatever Windows uses behind the scenes)
Kodi - WASAPI driver
Winyl - ASIO driver
 
Audio Chain:
USB -> SMSL M8 (or Aune T1) -> Little Dot MK III -> Headphones (DT880, HD580, SHP9500)
USB -> Aune T1 -> Gustard H10 -> Headphones (T50RP III, ATH-M50s, DT880, HD580, SHP9500)
 
Possible Solutions:
 
1. USB Conditioners
Audioquest Jitterbug - http://www.head-fi.org/t/777003/review-of-audioquest-jitterbug-usb-data-power-noise-filter
For sale here: http://www.amazon.com/Audioquest-ADQ002-AudioQuest-Jitterbug-Filter/dp/B00YTA78FW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1459954245&sr=8-1&keywords=audioquest+jitterbug
 
Schitt Wyrd USB Decrapifier - http://www.head-fi.org/t/724519/schiit-decrapifier-released-usb-power-isolator
For sale here: http://www.amazon.com/Schiit-SCH-16-Wyrd-USB-Decrapifier/dp/B00LFVMC9U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1460154867&sr=8-1&keywords=schiit+decrapifier
 
iFi iPurifier 2 - http://www.head-fi.org/t/784983/ifi-ipurifier-2-reviews-impressions-and-discussion-thread
For sale here: http://www.musicdirect.com/p-364758-ifi-ipurifier-2-inline-usb-audio-conditioner.aspx
May not work for my problem: http://www.head-fi.org/t/784983/ifi-ipurifier-2-reviews-impressions-and-discussion-thread/165#post_12274845
 
2. Internal Sound Card w/ SPDIF out
Creative Sound Blaster Z - http://www.head-fi.org/t/623079/creative-sound-blaster-new-series-z-zx-zxr
For sale here: http://www.amazon.com/Blaster-Performance-Headphone-Forming-Microphone/dp/B009ISU33E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1459954785&sr=8-1&keywords=creative+sound+blaster+Z
 
3. External USB / SPDIF converter
Gustard U12 - http://www.head-fi.org/t/736294/gustard-u12-usb-interface-8-core-xmos-chip
For sale here: http://www.amazon.com/GUSTARD-384KHz-Digital-Interface-silver/dp/B00PU4IXA0/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1459953895&sr=1-1&keywords=GUSTARD+u12
 
SMSL X-USB XMOS USB to Spdif Converter
For sale here: http://www.amazon.com/SMSL-Audio-x-USB-Silver-DAC/dp/B017VXS212/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1459954174&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=SMSL+X-USB+XMOS+USB+to+Spdif+Converter

4. HDMI Audio De-embedder (SPDIF out)
LUX-11 HDMI Audio Extractor, Decoder, Converter -
For sale here: http://www.amazon.com/Extractor-Digital-Converter-De-Embedder-Decoder/dp/B005COKXCO
 
Kanex Pro HDMI Audio De-Embedder -
For sale here: http://www.amazon.com/Kanex-Pro--Embedder-2-Channel-HAECOAX/dp/B009KAU0WO/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1460150984&sr=1-2&keywords=kanex+pro

Comments
The Aune T1 is USB only so a USB conditioner would be preferable where it is used.  The M8 is both USB and SPDIF so any of the above solutions would work with it.  
 
I would be perfectly happy with USB as a source if it was noise free.  
 
The Gustard or SMSL converters would fit cosmetically with my gear. But USB to SPDIF converters may have an impact on sound quality same as DACs and other equipment in the audio chain.  See this article -
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/15-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-spdif-converters-shootout-15327/
 
A HDMI de-embeder may have the additional benefit of being able to play DVD audio. (I also have an Oppo bluray player)
 
(Note: "For sale here" is for reference only not a recommendation as there are obviously other places to purchase the products than the links shown)
 
Questions
Has anyone experienced the same problem and, if so, what solution did you implement and what were your results both good and bad?

 

[V1001]

There are a myriad of threads already on here on about every product, and in each thread pretty much everyone lists all the rest of their products and how they've worked together and the results. Not that I mind more view points so I'm game. 
 
When I first started with just USB motherboard ports and your typical decent USB wire the sound was very disappointing. No pops or anything per se. It just never sounded right. It wasn't until I upgraded everything that I realized that the original sound was as if there was a blanket over the speakers, and that it was as if you had an equalizer and shuffled all the levers up and down. There were huge suckouts of frequencies. Stock USB is just pretty much garbage. The source USB is always to cheap of parts. To much noise gets in the line, Power is from garbage,. the contacts are far to small on the connectors. The wire is far to thin. Power wires run next to the signal wires and to close to them. Fortunatly there are answers to all that. And yeah it costs money but you have to realize anyway that if you bought a very expensive transport that it would have high quality expensive parts in it and with great noise reduction. But yet we all seem to just be ok with trying to get away with stock USB that probably has parts in it that literally cost pennies. There really is no choice, if you want great sound you have to spend money and make upgrades. "Bits are bits" doesn't apply.
 
This is what I ended up with. My most recent upgrade was buying a simple $25 USB 3.1 PCie card to replace the mottherboard USB ports. It has a SATA power input so you can power it direct from the power supply. I then ordered a Sotm SATA filter to filter the power coming in (that will be here Monday). I made a thread about this recently. That alone made a HUGE difference in sound quality. And seems to make way more sense to get that SATA filter to filter BEFORE anything else in the line instead of trying to filter after the port like parts such as the jitterbug try to do. 
 
The Uptone Audio USB Regen is a must have too. No matter what I do it always makes an improvement in sound quality.
 
And the difference from when I first started with the stock parts and wire, to the sound I'm now getting is astronomical. 
 
Sotm SATA filter ---> USB 3.1 card --->  AudioQuest Carbon .75m --->Uptone Audio USB regen ---> AudioQuest Carbon .75m ---> Nuforce Dac 9 
 
Here is the USB 3.1 card I bought. I personally feel this is essential and a must buy, the best money I've spent and so inexpensive too: http://www.amazon.com/QICENT-Expansion-Interface-Express-Controller/dp/B018YS9GUY?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00 

 

[GnuB]

There are a myriad of threads already on here on about every product, and in each thread pretty much everyone lists all the rest of their products and how they've worked together and the results. 

I spent several hours reading and researching before posting and there were several interesting positions taken from simple product recommendations to changing IRQ's and thread priorities on the computer (some of which was over my head). Anyway, as with many threads on this forum, there were differences of opinion on the effectiveness of one product over another and it was hard to determine whether the "fix" accomplished by the product would solve the problem I stated.  One person in the iFi iPurifier thread said that it produced better results than the Upton, other posters said they used it with the Upton or other IFi products and one said that it didn't remove the static that I mentioned.  I couldn't come to a conclusion after reading that whole thread.
 

 
My most recent upgrade was buying a simple $25 USB 3.1 PCie card to replace the mottherboard USB ports.
 

 
I read your post on the USB card  and the combination of the USB card and the SATA filter mentioned here sounds like a good alternative to the Jitterbug (that you said you had) and the iPurifier that I mentioned above.  
 

($70) Sotm SATA filter ---> ($23) USB 3.1 card --->  ($125) AudioQuest Carbon .75m ---> ($175) Uptone Audio USB regen ---> ($125) AudioQuest Carbon .75m ---> DAC  = ($519)
 

I would probably go for the card and filter first and decide whether further investment was warranted.  I think it is important to keep investments balanced so paying more for the cables and Uptone than I paid for the DAC and Amp seems counterintuitive but I will keep an open mind about it and do more research on the Uptone.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

[GnuB]

Divide the "noise" into two categories: 1) the pops and tics generated by the internals of the computer evident on the USB connection between tracks when there is no music playing and 2) the aberrations of the USB signal (jitters and such) that degrade the sound when music is playing that manifests as lack of soundstage, blackness of the background and/or high frequency detail.  
 
A USB conditioner or re-generator would probably work well for the category 2 problem but I wonder if the category 1 problem is different enough from the music in the digital signal for them to identify and correct.
 
Quote from the Uptone USB Regen site :

The USB REGEN takes the digital audio stream from your computer or other music streaming device, and generates a completely new USB data signal to feed to your DAC.  It accomplishes this by combining a carefully chosen USB hub chip with an ultra low-noise regulator and low-jitter clock.  Importantly, it does so with ideal impedance matching—right at the input of your DAC.

 
Quote from John Swenson, the designer of the Uptone Regen:

The whole reason I started thinking about a regen was the USBcable threads, after a lot of experimentation and thinking about it, I came to the conclusion that the signal integrity at the DACwas what was probably the difference between cables. Thus a device designed to regenerate the data signals. Because the whole purpose was to regenerate the signals that the cables were messing up, the regen device had to be right at the input to theDAC, thus it needed to be small and low weight. 

 
I can't determine from these statements whether the Regen would work for category 1 issues or not.  If the pops and ticks were already "on the cable" wouldn't they be regenerated also?

 

[V1001]

I don't think pops and ticks would regenerate because the regen acts as a hub. So I believe it sends and receives data back and forth doing some file verification. And checks and resends packet data making sure everything is right. I think that is what happens when Windows sees a hub and data goes through it. I'm not totally sure though but that sounds right to me. I know it acts differently than just sending real time Audio to a DAC though. So it's not the same thing as going straight to a DAC. 

 

[V1001]

($70) Sotm SATA filter ---> ($23) USB 3.1 card --->  ($125) AudioQuest Carbon .75m ---> ($175) Uptone Audio USB regen ---> ($125) AudioQuest Carbon .75m ---> DAC  = ($519)
 

I would probably go for the card and filter first and decide whether further investment was warranted.  I think it is important to keep investments balanced so paying more for the cables and Uptone than I paid for the DAC and Amp seems counterintuitive but I will keep an open mind about it and do more research on the Uptone.

 
I agree about being balanced. But I keep trying new things and they keep improving the sound. Or basically fixing it. I feel the basic foundation should be to have an accurate signal. Sending what is essentially a broken or damaged signal to your DAC and all your other gear from there isn't a good place to start. It's going to affect everything and all the sound from there on out. So I feel it should be the first thing considered and one of the most important parts of a system to invest in. Every other piece of gear you try or buy will all now be affected by that original USB signal. I don't want to have all this stuff either or spend that kind of money.. But the difference is so huge it's like I upgraded to more expensive amps and DAC and everything else in my system after hearing the difference. But yeah definitely up to each person on what they really want to spend. Can always spread it out over time and try different things here and there. Can make it a journey. Or if someone finds a happy medium they can live with then that's up to them. For example I'd like the Audioquest Diamond USB wires, but that's some serious coin, I don't think I'll be dropping that kind of money for two of them and will stick with the carbons. 

 

[GnuB]

Here is the USB 3.1 card I bought. I personally feel this is essential and a must buy, the best money I've spent and so inexpensive too: http://www.amazon.com/QICENT-Expansion-Interface-Express-Controller/dp/B018YS9GUY?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00 
 

 
I ordered the USB 3.1 card and it should arrive in a few days.  If the card takes care of the category 1 noise then I can think about other improvements.  

 

[GnuB]

The QICENT 2 Ports PCI-E to USB 3.1 Expansion Card arrived and has been installed and connected to the SMSL M8 via Pangea Audio - USB cable - PCOCC & 4% silver - 1.5 Meter.

 
The category 1 noise is still present although at perhaps a lower level than before so this was not the fix for me.  The card did have an interesting side effect.  I was able to set the output to 32 bit 192hz although I am not sure what that does with 16K/44.1 audio files.  It shows as 192HZ on the M8.
 

 
Transients (snare and cymbal hits) and Soundstage seems a bit improved with the card and cable.  I am happy with the sound signature if only the noise would go away.

 

[V1001]

I think you're on the right track. But you still need an actual filter to filter the noise out. The cheapest place to start is the Jitterbug. But for $20 more you can get way better with the Sotm. Mine showed up the other day and everything is so incredibly black and quiet in the background. I'd imagine it should filter out any and all noise. And in the end you'll end up with better sound overall too as a plus.
 
Is your mouse and such wireless? You can try getting a USB extension wire and moving the mouse receiver far away from the computer. Some times that helps. Or try plugging the mouse into a cheap USB hub that has it's own separate power. 

 

[mindbomb]

The best solution, which requires a dac that has its own power supply, is an optical usb cable.

 

[Sko0byDoo]

It's probably the same problem I had.  It's galvanic noise from the PC gets into the USB 5V line.  I've seen/used several solutions:
 
1)  Adnaco USB-over-Fios (S3B)
2)  Berkeley Audio Alpha USB
3)  Audiophileo
 
I've used Adnaco and Berkeley.  They solved the problem nicely; no more noise, dead quiet.  the Berkeley is especially great since it improves the sound quality a notch better (it reclocks USB signal with a much better clock).  The Yggy forum discussed this few weeks ago.
 
Since you want to stay with USB, Adnaco is the best bet.

 

[GnuB]

Quote @V1001

Is your mouse and such wireless? You can try getting a USB extension wire and moving the mouse receiver far away from the computer. Some times that helps. Or try plugging the mouse into a cheap USB hub that has it's own separate power. 

 
No it is wired, but, I have an external USB WiFi adapter.  I have been experimenting with it with unreliable results (unplugging, disabling WiFi, plugging in different ports).  Sometimes the noise is entirely gone and sometimes it is there at a reduced level (have to gain up the hp amp to hear).  Until it is repeatable I will not know whether any solution works or not.  

 

[raoultrifan]

Hi all, 
 
To minimize USB noise I usually take out my scope and measure all USB ports from the host computer. Usually shortest path has the lowest noise, so I've attached 2 pictures that explain why front USB ports are having way much noise than the one from the back that comes out straight from the motherboard via soldered connectors.
 
The USB ports from front are usually interconnected through quite long wires to the USB ports from the motherboard, so this explains why are getting noisier.
 

USB port from front of computer case (4mV RMS)	USB port from backside, straight to motherboard (0.9mV RMS)​

 ​

 ​

 
I've also checked USB ports on some laptops and realized that ports closer to power jack might get a bit noisier. Also, doesn't matters if laptop is powered from the power adapter or from it's internal battery, the USB noise would be exactly the same (internal +5V power regulator doesn't cares about the input power source). I've tested LENOVO ThinkPad X201/T420/T430/T440, HP 8460p/8560p, MacBookPro non-retina & retina too. On all of them I was able to find an USB port having around 1mV of AC ripple and noise, figure that I find it quite good.

 

[moshe tes]

Hi all,

To minimize USB noise I usually take out my scope and measure all USB ports from the host computer. Usually shortest path has the lowest noise, so I've attached 2 pictures that explain why front USB ports are having way much noise than the one from the back that comes out straight from the motherboard via soldered connectors.

The USB ports from front are usually interconnected through quite long wires to the USB ports from the motherboard, so this explains why are getting noisier.

​

USB port from front of computer case (4mV RMS)	USB port from backside, straight to motherboard (0.9mV RMS)​

​

I've also checked USB ports on some laptops and realized that ports closer to power jack might get a bit noisier. Also, doesn't matters if laptop is powered from the power adapter or from it's internal battery, the USB noise would be exactly the same (internal +5V power regulator doesn't cares about the input power source). I've tested LENOVO ThinkPad X201/T420/T430/T440, HP 8460p/8560p, MacBookPro non-retina & retina too. On all of them I was able to find an USB port having around 1mV of AC ripple and noise, figure that I find it quite good.

Well, you tested only good laptops. I have a cheap Behringer USB audio interface. That thing will buzz like crazy on a noisy USB port. It is dead silent when I use it on Thinkpads and Macbook Pros. Those seem to have well-designed motherboards. I haven't been successful with any of the Dell workstation/business-class laptops, however. Those all have a loud buzz in the recorded audio.