[bobeau]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sladeophile I just have a hard time swallowing that pill when there is a TON of oil in our own country and no one will let us get it! We also haven't built a refinery in decades...

Spend some time over at www.peakoil.com

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobeau As would their's.

Not at all, the US isn't the only market in the world you know. If China dumped their stash of USD the American economy would go down the pan almost instantly. No need for missiles when they've got so many dollars in reserve.

 

[PinkFloyd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by smeerkaas our public transportation ain't that good The trains are always too late. There are no dutch car manufacturers (Well there is spyker and Donkervoort but those only produce a few cars a year) you do see a lot of japanese cars or German Diesels

The Dutch do have the "Hopjes" though! A most veritable delicacy

 

[AlanY]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sladeophile And number 2 is the exact reason I'm proud to be an American with a fast ass gas guzling car AND truck. Am I perpetuating the problem? Perhaps.

As long as you can pay for it, it's cool. On another audio forum I was reading yesterday, this guy who lived outside Atlanta and had a fairly long commute in was complaining how he was paying more than $100 a week in gas. Turns out he was commuting in a vehicle that got 12-14mpg. Makes me laugh... people make irrational lifestyle choices and then complain they can't pay for it.

 

[Yikes]

Quote:

Originally Posted by smeerkaas our public transportation ain't that good The trains are always too late. There are no dutch car manufacturers (Well there is spyker and Donkervoort but those only produce a few cars a year) you do see a lot of japanese cars or German Diesels

Ah... but you all ride bicycles.

 

[dhp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd Not at all, the US isn't the only market in the world you know. If China dumped their stash of USD the American economy would go down the pan almost instantly. No need for missiles when they've got so many dollars in reserve.

hah, if the chinese economy dumped their USD, then their own economy would be screwed as well... mutually assured destruction, the economic way.

 

[AlanY]

The danger is not the Chinese and other net creditor nations holding vast amounts of currency. It's them using the proceeds from the US current account deficit to acquire tangible non-currency assets. The savers (foreigners) gradually acquire more and more of the US' wealth. Warren Buffett warns about this frequently, likening it to a rich family slowly selling off their assets to continue sustaining their lifestyle. It doesn't take long with a current account deficit representing 7% of GDP for creditors to eventually own much of what used to be yours.

 

[nysulli]

the funny thing with gas is that it held steady from the early 80's at just over a buck a gallon till ~2000 barely above that, i bet it gas prices had steadily increased this wouldn't seem like such a big deal, i only have complaints about 2 groups of people, those who bitch about high gas prices who unnecessarly drive an SUV that gets 12 mpg where they could easily do with a minivan or even a large sedan, getting more like 20-25mpg at the worst, yeah i enjoy sports cars, but at least a good number of them aren't all that bad on mileage if you can keep your foot off the go fast pedal, certainly better then most if not all SUV's aside from the mini-SUV's

the other with with oil companies, i really don't mind paying 3 bucks a gallon, if thats what it takes to get people to stop driving gas guzzlers when they don't have to, and as long as i know someone elses pockets aren't getting fat at my expense, the problem is big oil is making a killing off the current market, only numbers i could quickly find were for 2nd quarter 05, where every oil companies profits rose roughly 33% from the previous year as oil prices went up around 10 bucks a barrel, which contains 55 gallons of crude, and turns into 22 gallons of gas along with the rest of the products that come out of it, given that increase, gas should have gone up like 20 cents a gallon, but it went up far more

given that we're dependent on oil, it should be a regulated industry, and gas prices should be for the most part fixed, with a fixed level of profit involved for the oil comanpies, and a variable tax to keep supply and demand in check, with the money going to alternative fuels research or paying off our debt, but with bush in office this won't ever happen, as its his old friends that stand to get loaded off the current situation

 

[Oski]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanY Warren Buffett warns about this frequently, likening it to a rich family slowly selling off their assets to continue sustaining their lifestyle. It doesn't take long with a current account deficit representing 7% of GDP for creditors to eventually own much of what used to be yours.

Here's Buffett's article which was originally published in Fortune magazine:

http://www.pbs.org/wsw/news/fortunea...031026_03.html

It's a worthwhile read to get some idea about where the US Dollar and the US economy are headed...a bit bleak actually. Meanwhile the vast majority of the population is quite happily unaware while shopping for cheap Chinese goods from WalMart and not saving for their future (again, negative savings rate last year). Ignorance is bliss, but it'll catch up eventually.

 

[bobeau]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd Not at all, the US isn't the only market in the world you know. If China dumped their stash of USD the American economy would go down the pan almost instantly. No need for missiles when they've got so many dollars in reserve.

It's _the_ market driving the Chinese economy. From investments to imports, it's an order of magnitude above the rest of the world.

One day, but today is not the day. The Chinese and the US economies are inexorably intertwined.

Again, check out www.peakoil.com - they disseminate this stuff to a fine degree.

 

[bobeau]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nysulli given that we're dependent on oil, it should be a regulated industry, and gas prices should be for the most part fixed, with a fixed level of profit involved for the oil comanpies, and a variable tax to keep supply and demand in check, with the money going to alternative fuels research or paying off our debt, but with bush in office this won't ever happen, as its his old friends that stand to get loaded off the current situation

That's suicide. Their profits are not their fault, it is the market. There are serious supply issues ahead and you can't price fix a commodity that is about to become far costlier to extract. We need to quickly ramp up alternatives and nothing like pricy oil will spur that along.

 

[dhp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobeau That's suicide. Their profits are not their fault, it is the market. There are serious supply issues ahead and you can't price fix a commodity that is about to become far costlier to extract. We need to quickly ramp up alternatives and nothing like pricy oil will spur that along.

gas prices aren't based on supply and demand

 

[AlanY]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieInAFire gas prices aren't based on supply and demand

What are they based on then? Does your reasoning apply to other commodities as well (metals, pork bellies, etc.), or is it just crude oil that's not based on supply and demand? Are people charging more or less than the market will bear?

 

[dhp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanY What are they based on then? Does your reasoning apply to other commodities as well (metals, pork bellies, etc.), or is it just crude oil that's not based on supply and demand? Are people charging more or less than the market will bear?

We are so dependent on crude oil that the market doesn't follow normal supply-demand economics, but speculation. There will ALWAYS be a demand for oil no matter what the cost is, even if oil prices doubled now, our consumption would still be somewhat close to what it is now.

But hey, let's just throw in a

just so I can be an *******

 

[bobeau]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieInAFire We are so dependent on crude oil that the market doesn't follow normal supply-demand economics, but speculation. There will ALWAYS be a demand for oil no matter what the cost is, even if oil prices doubled now, our consumption would still be somewhat close to what it is now. But hey, let's just throw in a just so I can be an *******

Right, oil is typically an inelastic commodity. Until you know, it's too expensive for folks in the 'burbs to drive to work. Carpooling, losing your job... well, you know. Demand.

But that's skirting the issue. It's all about supply, demand be damned. The oil itself is costlier to extract (not in fiat backed by nothing $$, but in energy terms which can be highly inflationary), and finite, and we're bumping up against something fierce. That we say current prices are speculative is a good deal smoke and mirrors. It is true to an extent at any given moment in time you take a sample of the market. But not the trend, which has been quickly pointing upward.

Checked out the Hirsch Report, commisioned by the DOE.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hirsch_report