[WarriorAnt]

Quote:

If you want a musical sub, go with a smaller driver with multiple drivers. Say 3-8" or 2-10" instead of a larger driver. My mistake was putting 15" sub into a task of matching panels. I have accepted the sub for HT duty and live with the panels/10" woofer.

I agree with Happy Camper on this.  

 

[ZorgDK]

Quote:

Well...you guys know how it works.  Started a speaker system- now "need" to upgrade.  Current system consists of:
 
Cheap Sony DVD Player--> Harman Kardon AVR525 Receiver-->Adcom GFA 545 (II) Amplifier-->Magnepan MMG Speakers
 
I have moved my headphone setup (consisting mainly of a Marantz CD5001 & an Audio-gd Compass) to the bedroom.  I've played around with using each of these components as a source for the speaker system, and noted that the analog conversion in both the Marantz & the Compass seem quite superior to that of the HK receiver.  I'm also wondering whether the MMG's, which are notoriously power hungry, would benefit from a stronger amp (the Adcom is rated as 150 watts @ 4 ohms).  Seems to me that a new DAC is in order (maybe the ubiquitous Benchmark DAC1 or an Anedio D1), but maybe upgrading the amp would yield better results.  What do you guys think?  Have any specific recommendations?  Let's say budget of $1,000 (or a little more if REALLY justifiable).
 
My thoughts on the current sound:  Really like the MMGs- great sound stage, but feel they can be a little harsh.  Also a bit thin on the bottom end (though I knew this going in.. they only go down to 50Hz)
 
Possibilities:
- New DAC
- New Amp
- Subwoofer
- Room Treatments/Mods to MMGs ??

 
The good thing about the Anedio D1 you mention, is that it can work as a preamp. That'll save some cash and it should give better transparency with one less link.
 
 

 

[thelsuman]

Cool- can you guys recommend any good candidates for used 10" subs which are not too difficult to find?
 
I was eyeing the Epik Legend Sub (which is a dual 12" design- $499): http://www.epiksubwoofers.com/legend.html
However, it seems that what I need is a smaller version of this design -featuring 10" drivers, or something like this: http://emotiva.com/ultra_sub10.shtm
 
and then add a second sub later on.
 
Quote:

If you want a musical sub, go with a smaller driver with multiple drivers. Say 3-8" or 2-10" instead of a larger driver. My mistake was putting 15" sub into a task of matching panels. I have accepted the sub for HT duty and live with the panels/10" woofer.

 

 

[WarriorAnt]

You should really find an audio forum with threads of people who have your maggies and see what subwoofers they might be using.  You just can't grab any subwoofer and hope it will match.
 
I would try out AudioKarma and see what the maggies users there have to say.

 

[Happy Camper]

No help in that budget.

I know this is out of budget but the technology is designed for stat integration. http://www.martinlogan.com/products/depthi The first review is about Maggies (on a M-L product).

 

[mbkennel]

 
I have the Martin Logan Dynamo sub with my 3.6's.  This is the sealed version which is unfortunately discontinued, and probably a lower version of the Descent/Depth, etc.   There is still a ML Dynamo 500 & 700, but these are now ported subs.
 
For a while ML had a youtube video explaining how much better sealed was over ported for clean speakers like their ESL's (and magnepans).  Whoops, that disappeared from the intertubes really fast when their new line came out.  (ported can obviously play louder for home theater, but you don't want that, you want to play just with the mags).
 
Maybe you can find one on audiogon (you've checked www.audiogon.com, right?).  Other people on Audio Asylum (planar sub-board) tend to like REL, and Rhythmik subs with mags though these are at a higher price point usually.  There are probably some very high quality ported subs which may be as good, but verify with the planar heads first.
 

 

[MarioImpemba]

Quote:

If you want a musical sub, go with a smaller driver with multiple drivers. Say 3-8" or 2-10" instead of a larger driver. My mistake was putting 15" sub into a task of matching panels. I have accepted the sub for HT duty and live with the panels/10" woofer.

Quote:

I agree with Happy Camper on this.  

I would love to hear any substantiated explanation for this...
 
 
The Dayton RS anything is an exceptional value. They utilize copper shorter rings IIRC, and exhibit very low distortion. As a bonus, they can extend (in frequency) quite nicely, making them very easy to incorporate. Go for an HF as they're more efficient and go lower. Put them in sealed, ported, whatever - they will sound great.
 
Those or Peerless subs, if they still make any.
 
No reason to spend anymore than those cost.

 

[WarriorAnt]

Quote:

I would love to hear any substantiated explanation for this...
 
 
The Dayton RS anything is an exceptional value. They utilize copper shorter rings IIRC, and exhibit very low distortion. As a bonus, they can extend (in frequency) quite nicely, making them very easy to incorporate. Go for an HF as they're more efficient and go lower. Put them in sealed, ported, whatever - they will sound great.
 
Those or Peerless subs, if they still make any.
 
No reason to spend anymore than those cost.

 
I have substantial experience matching subs with fast planars and electroststics.   If you want speed in your bass to match the speed of your planars don't use one huge large woofer.  

 

[MarioImpemba]

Quote:

 
I have substantial experience matching subs with fast planars and electroststics.   If you want speed in your bass to match the speed of your planars don't use one huge large woofer.  

Transients has nothing to do with the size of the cone.

 

[WarriorAnt]

Quote:

Transients has nothing to do with the size of the cone.

Have you tried to match subwoofers with planars?   If so please tell us of your experiences.
 
 

 

[MarioImpemba]

I have actually, but that's besides the point.
 
You're making a gross generalization/blanketed statement with no fundamental basis.
 
Anecdotal experiences that demonstrate larger cones are "slower" is merely evidence of a mismanaged substage implementation (enclosure type/size, gain matching, crossovers, EQing, time/phase alignments, et al.).
 
Let me repeat: Cone size has nothing to do with transient speed (well, I lied, very little in terms of overall design).
 
I'd be more than happy to link you to some white-papers, but you're better off just letting this go.
 
Also, please never go to any live concert because their massive stacks and 18" pro-woofers will be too slow for you.
 
Think about this: the speed of the cone is directly related to frequency.

 

[WarriorAnt]

Quote:

I have actually, but that's besides the point.
 
You're making a gross generalization/blanketed statement with no fundamental basis.
 
Anecdotal experiences that demonstrate larger cones are "slower" is merely evidence of a mismanaged substage implementation (enclosure type/size, gain matching, crossovers, EQing, time/phase alignments, et al.).
 
Let me repeat: Cone size has nothing to do with transient speed (well, I lied, very little in terms of overall design).
 
I'd be more than happy to link you to some white-papers, but you're better off just letting this go.
 
Also, please never go to any live concert because their massive stacks and 18" pro-woofers will be too slow for you.
 
Think about this: the speed of the cone is directly related to frequency.

It is not besides the point.   Please tell us what planars you have tired to match a subwoofer with and which subwoofer.  Otherwise your'e just another theorist offering no practical experience.
 

 

[Pricklely Peete]

 A pair of Rythmik servo subs would be a killer match with the planar mags. I have direct experience with the partsexpress titanic kits...they are pretty good for the money but they do not have the (cone) control that the servo type has, that being said a pair of Titanic III 10's  kits (dead easy to complete) can had for the price of 1 Rythmic 12 inch (which is the smallest cone size they sell). 12's offer good speed with good extension without having to resort to massive amounts of power (on the usually smaller cabs 10's and the like are stuffed into). A 12 inch using a 3 cu ft sealed cab and a 504W plate amp will give you legit 22 hz extension...-3db at 20 hz. It's a compromise of sorts when it comes to subs....I use a pair of Titanic 12's in a tower and a 12 inch M&K (for HT use). EQ'd (digital parametric to tame room modes) and actively crossed over it's a great solution that blends very well with the Maggie/ET panels....*no hint of bloat, sloth or overhang when setup and positioned properly*. I did custom damp the Titanic enclosures (beyond what the kit supplied)....by and large though if you have the extra $$$ go with the Rythmik servo in the larger cab ...down the road add a second sub for true stereo ops.
 
 
* The key to any subs performance depends on this.
 
Peete.

 

[Frank I]

 
Quote:

Well...you guys know how it works.  Started a speaker system- now "need" to upgrade.  Current system consists of:
 
Cheap Sony DVD Player--> Harman Kardon AVR525 Receiver-->Adcom GFA 545 (II) Amplifier-->Magnepan MMG Speakers
 
I have moved my headphone setup (consisting mainly of a Marantz CD5001 & an Audio-gd Compass) to the bedroom.  I've played around with using each of these components as a source for the speaker system, and noted that the analog conversion in both the Marantz & the Compass seem quite superior to that of the HK receiver.  I'm also wondering whether the MMG's, which are notoriously power hungry, would benefit from a stronger amp (the Adcom is rated as 150 watts @ 4 ohms).  Seems to me that a new DAC is in order (maybe the ubiquitous Benchmark DAC1 or an Anedio D1), but maybe upgrading the amp would yield better results.  What do you guys think?  Have any specific recommendations?  Let's say budget of $1,000 (or a little more if REALLY justifiable).
 
My thoughts on the current sound:  Really like the MMGs- great sound stage, but feel they can be a little harsh.  Also a bit thin on the bottom end (though I knew this going in.. they only go down to 50Hz)
 
Possibilities:
- New DAC
- New Amp
- Subwoofer
- Room Treatments/Mods to MMGs ??

When I owned the maggie MMg I used a singloe Outlaw compact LF1 sub 10 inch woofer and I had the 2150RR Outlaw receiver using the high end Onkyio CD player. They were never harsh and the sub integrated well with the Maggies. The receive had bass management but I used the internal crossover of the sub. I had it crossed over at 40hz and had good results in my 20X13 room.
 

 

[Frank I]

 
Quote:

It is not besides the point.   Please tell us what planars you have tired to match a subwoofer with and which subwoofer.  Otherwise your'e just another theorist offering no practical experience.
 

 


Quote:

You should really find an audio forum with threads of people who have your maggies and see what subwoofers they might be using.  You just can't grab any subwoofer and hope it will match.
 
I would try out AudioKarma and see what the maggies users there have to say.

The best forum for Maggies is on the Auduio Asylum there is a Planar forum devoted to mostly Maggies. There is lots of different subs. Outlaws,HSU and REL subs all work well with Maggies. Depending on room size you would or could get away with one sub. I had the LF1 Outlaw designed by HSU. Dr HSU designs great subs at reasonable prices and their are deals to be had on both the Outlaw and HSU websites. I would also check your amps as they may be giving harsh sound as Maggies are not harsh but are amp dependent as well as source.