[vermellfort]

Hi everybody!

For the last months I've been using a Keces DA-151 that had the perfect sound signature in terms of neutrality to fit my tastes.
Decided to upgrade and, after reading lots of reviews, comparisons and opinions, I took a chance on the Stello DA100. This was a clear improvement over the Keces in all terms (maybe not in soundstage), but...
But I find the Stello dark sounding. To me it has an emphasis on the low frequencies, a slice of certain coloration in the low midrange and slightly "tamed" highs that alltogether gives an unnatural sound to my ears.
Obviously, it's not so hard: I'm enjoying the Stello inmensely to the point I decided to keep it over the Keces (I sold it finally).
I'm aware also that it could be a problem of synergy with my system (Prehead / Earmax --> DT880 / DT48e). Maybe trying brighter phones (thinking about K340) could be the solution.

Now, from my readings, I'm pointing to the Lavry DA11 (due to the comments about its perfect neutrality) and looking at the Benchmark DAC1 USB (supposed brighter) as the second option. Aqvox could be the third but given my desktop space available I actually don't know where I would place it.

So, my direct question is how these DACs compare to the Keces in terms of sound signature.

Thanks in advanced.

 

[tosehee]

If you are looking for a very neutral DAC, Audio-gd DACs are very neutral and transparent. Probably not the answer you are looking for though.

 

[vermellfort]

Not really but thanks anyway.
I spent the two last years reading and upgrading my gear. I really have enjoyed both but I actually feel a bit tired of testing devices and I want to make a "definitive" upgrade (if that's possible...).
I decided to open this thread since I know the Keces is a very popular DAC and, in spite I found lots of words about how the other models compare to each other, I haven't been able to find how they compare to the cheaper models in terms of sound signature.
Maybe my question is naive and it's trying to compare apples to oranges but since I've already got the Stello, I think it would be very useful for the ones that, like me, want to point to higher gear.

 

[oqvist]

Why not try the Keces 131 mk 2 or if he has a newer model ready? I haven´t heard the 151 but I find it curious to hear that it´s soundstage matches the Stello. I have tried some cheaper sources like DacMagic, Valab Nos DAC, Essence ST, Elite Pro, RX-V663 and if there is one area in particular the Keces excels is in it´s soundstaging. It´s the source that fits all my headphone the best except perhaps the K701. The Essence ST softens it´s top a bit and give it some bass boost stock.

However I am now trying the 49720NAs which are supposed to give it superb soundstage. Yet when I switch my outputs on the Slee Solo I think I put on my surround system while choosing the Keces.

If tiy aren´t planning going balanced or such why pay multum for a DAC1?

 

[vermellfort]

Hi oqvist. So good to talk to you after so much reading your comments.
I'm supposed on the comments that Keces 131 is slightly better than 151 but, having the computer as my main source, I decided to take the 151.
I agree with you on the Keces soundstage is very nice. Even I would say slightly bigger than the Stello's. But focalization of instruments is a tad better in this one and not because of the narrower soundstage. Also the Stello beats the Keces in all aspects: detail, body, resolution, speed, slam... Maybe it lacks some air between the instruments because of the warmer sound that provides. But this little warmth is not an Stello's fault: it's only a preference of mine.
I don't really need the balanced outputs in both the Lavry and the Benchmark, neither the integrated amp. This was one of the things that made me to go for the Stello. But sometimes you have to eat the whole cake in spite of you only wanted the chocolate.
I will have a look on the 49720NAs.

 

[oqvist]

I don´t like the 49720NAs at all I might add. Especially not if you want warmth. A lot colder then my Keces so maybe not what you are after

 

[vermellfort]

Thanks for the note oqvist: I'll invest my time in other issues.
I had an answer through another forum in Spain stating the Lavry is the straight upgrade if one is satisfied with the Keces, just if somebody is interested in, and regarding its neutrality.
Even though, I would like to hear some other opinions if that's possible, thinking that it would be interesting for everybody.

 

[vermellfort]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huge_J /img/forum/go_quote.gif One thing to try with the Stello, turn off the upsampling and try it for a few days, you should notice that it will have a crisper sound, a larger sound stage and more neutral than with the upsampling working.

What I realized with the upsampling mode is that the sound becomes "richer" and "fuller" compared with the non-upsampling mode. The non-upsampling is good for my Earmax since this has already a lush sound that gives body to the instruments and voices. On the other hand I prefer the upsampling mode with the Prehead since this has a dead neutral sound. On this amp I can also modify slightly the tone thanks to its controls but it's only 1db up or down.
I haven't noticed any change of soundstage or tonality between the two modes. It's true that (IMO) the non-up, giving a "thinner" sound, becomes in a perception of a bigger separation among the instruments (a bit more air between them), the bass appears as more controlled and the mids are no as up-front as in the upsampling mode. But, after all, tonality remains the same.

 

[vermellfort]

Finally I ended purchasing a Mytek Stereo96 DAC. The scarce references I found about it point to a neutral and transparent sound.

In the meantime I also looked for Stellavox ST2 and JOB DA48 / DA96, also reported as neutral, but they are impossible to find actually.

I'll post my impressions about it when it gets to my hands.

 

[oldson]

vermellfort
i too am looking to upgrade my budget dac (mf v-dac).
the stello you have, is that the "standard" version or the "signiture" model?
and do you think it would better suit an SS amp, rather than tubes, as you say it has a darker sound?

 

[vermellfort]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldson /img/forum/go_quote.gif vermellfort i too am looking to upgrade my budget dac (mf v-dac). the stello you have, is that the "standard" version or the "signiture" model? and do you think it would better suit an SS amp, rather than tubes, as you say it has a darker sound?

Mine was (it's sold already) the non-signature model. From reviews I read, unless you're going balanced, the SQ is on par on both versions.

To my ears it suited more the Corda Prehead (SS) than my Earmax since I found the Stello gives quite body to the sound. The Prehead is dead-neutral sounding and I could correct a bit the Stello's warmth with the tone control switches.
With the Earmax it looked like there was more coloration in the sound and "too much body" (sorry for my way of speaking, it's difficult to describe and more in another language).
Take this as my (limited) experience: I'm still learning. I would love to compare lots of amps and DACs but it's no chance for my budget.
What I found on the Stello is that, although being a bit warmth, it was very detailed and fast, with lots of punch.
There's a thing that happens to me and it's that, when I don't find what I'm looking for in the sound, unconsciously I turn the volume up til I hear it. I was missing some sparkle with the Stello and, what's fatiguing to me, it's a lot of bass.

 

[oldson]

sounds like we are in similar position. i too find it difficult too describe signatures and have limited experience.
what you describe makes sense to me. i am tempted to buy a stello for my gs solo amp.
the v-dac ,i have, has been criticised for lack of pace, by some.

my problem is, i do, at some point also want to try a tube amp.

 

[vermellfort]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldson /img/forum/go_quote.gif sounds like we are in similar position. i too find it difficult too describe signatures and have limited experience. what you describe makes sense to me. i am tempted to buy a stello for my gs solo amp.

From the memories of my readings, I think the GS Solo is quite neutral.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldson /img/forum/go_quote.gif the v-dac ,i have, has been criticised for lack of pace, by some.

On the same way that V-DAC it's on the warm side.

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldson /img/forum/go_quote.gif my problem is, i do, at some point also want to try a tube amp.

My comments refer to my Earmax that is well known to have a "lush" sound. I don't know if there are tube amps that are so "tubey" or even you can roll the tubes for getting the sound signature that you like.
If you have a look on the Trafomatic (also full, bodied and lush sound) thread, there are some people that even uses a tube DAC that I suppose, are warm. As everything in this audio world, it's relative and related to personal preferences.