[Edwood]

Well, I am auditioning TTVJ's G08 Loaner, and it's not helping me to save money.

As much as I like the G08's sound, I just don't like how slow it is playing discs, changing tracks, etc. Well, I prefer using a computer as a transport, so even a fast CDP is too "cumbersome" for me. I've just gotten too lazy and used to having all of my music at my fingertips.

So where should I go from here?

Two DAC's have caught my interest.

1. Electrocompaniet ECD-1

2. Chord DAC64

Each one is roughly in my price range. Alas, I don't think there are any dealers in the Southern California area that have any of these DAC's. Let alone any local Head-fiers with the DAC64.

I like that the Electrocompaniet has more modding potential, but a part of me just wants a piece of hardware that "just works."

I have modded my Bel Canto DAC2 about as far as I can take it for now, except for the swapping the clock oscillator out for a $300 Superclock 3. I am skeptical as to whether this $300 part would make that big a difference. And of course, I'll never know unless I try, but $300 would be a lot to spend and not be able to discern a significant difference.

So what say you?

-Ed

 

[J-Pak]

Sorry this is a little unrelated to your post, but I read your DAC shootout and wondering why you chose the Bel Canto over the Benchmark DAC1? I know you said the difference was marginal, but the DAC1 did have the slight edge. I've been looking for a stand alone DAC for a couple of months now, do you think the DAC2 is a good start? (I think they're around $600 on Audiogon)

Thanks

 

[n_maher]

Ed,

Did you catch that there's a used ECD-1 in the FS forums right now? Might be fate?

N

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

There's also a fresh ECD-1 on the 'gon. Some of the stuff jjcha has written in the past has made me really doubt how much of an improvement the DAC64 might be, as even with his impressive array of accessories he doesn't seem to say to much about it. It might be good to pick his brain on the subject, since he could theoretically assemble at least one of your future rigs for it (K1000/m902/DAC64).

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by n_maher Ed, Did you catch that there's a used ECD-1 in the FS forums right now? Might be fate? N

Yup. Which is why I posted this thread.

Decisions decisions.....

-Ed

 

[Jon L]

I don't see the ECD-1 as necessarily a step up from DAC2, especially if DAC2 is modded. These 2 have similar school of sound IMO: airy, sweet, extended sound with "natural" midrange.

What are you looking to accomplish, Ed? Different signature, or similar but better detail resolution?

Among the DAC's I consider unambiguously "better" than DAC2 or ECD1 or Benchmark, Dodson 218 or Meitner DCC2 wlll get a blanket recommendation from me, but even used, these things go for $$$

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer There's also a fresh ECD-1 on the 'gon. Some of the stuff jjcha has written in the past has made me really doubt how much of an improvement the DAC64 might be, as even with his impressive array of accessories he doesn't seem to say to much about it. It might be good to pick his brain on the subject, since he could theoretically assemble at least one of your future rigs for it (K1000/m902/DAC64).

Yeah, that sell on the 'gon relisted, this time for a higher price than what he listed before.

As for jjcha, he seems to like his DAC64 very much here:
http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showt...ht=Chord+DAC64

And he did briefly list it for sale, but ended up keeping it, and he still has it today.

I think the extra processing of the DAC64 has me intrigued, as just adding boutique components has small improvements, depending on the design of the DAC.

Modding the PSU for the Bel Canto was easy and straightfoward, as it was pretty much unregulated.

Added balanced outputs was the best mod since it bypassed an extra amplification stage.

-Ed

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Pak Sorry this is a little unrelated to your post, but I read your DAC shootout and wondering why you chose the Bel Canto over the Benchmark DAC1? I know you said the difference was marginal, but the DAC1 did have the slight edge. I've been looking for a stand alone DAC for a couple of months now, do you think the DAC2 is a good start? (I think they're around $600 on Audiogon) Thanks

Because it wouldn't have been much of a DAC shoot out with only the Grace m902 and Benchmark DAC1.

Plus I heard the Bel Canto DAC2 before and liked it. It also had more modding potential, unlike the Benchmark DAC1, where in a previous thread an engineer from Benchmark flat out said that most sections would not benefit significantly from any upgrades really.

-Ed

 

[Edwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon L I don't see the ECD-1 as necessarily a step up from DAC2, especially if DAC2 is modded. These 2 have similar school of sound IMO: airy, sweet, extended sound with "natural" midrange. What are you looking to accomplish, Ed? Different signature, or similar but better detail resolution?

Better detail resolution is at the top of my list, tighter bass and faster treble would be important too. My mods gained the latter, but not so much in the detail resolution dept.

Quote:

Among the DAC's I consider unambiguously "better" than DAC2 or ECD1 or Benchmark, Dodson 218 or Meitner DCC2 wlll get a blanket recommendation from me, but even used, these things go for $$$

[/quote]

Heh, well, not quite ready for that yet. I hope to have a listen someday soon, though.

-Ed

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon L I don't see the ECD-1 as necessarily a step up from DAC2, especially if DAC2 is modded. These 2 have similar school of sound IMO: airy, sweet, extended sound with "natural" midrange. What are you looking to accomplish, Ed? Different signature, or similar but better detail resolution? Among the DAC's I consider unambiguously "better" than DAC2 or ECD1 or Benchmark, Dodson 218 or Meitner DCC2 wlll get a blanket recommendation from me, but even used, these things go for $$$

I went from the unmodded DAC2 to the ECD-1, and I think the sound signature is quite different. The ECD-1, even unmodded, is much more dynamic, and has a significantly better midrange. True, the DAC2 I had wasn't modded, but reading Ed's descriptions of the change in sound of the DAC2 due to his mods, I would still think the stock ECD-1 would be a step up. If you can get one used, and then mod it, I think it results in a huge improvement over the DAC2, which is not a bad dac in its own right. Of course, as usual, a really good dac requires that the rest of the system be up to snuff.

EDIT: Also, I thought, Ed, that you compared the DAC2 and the Benchmark and thought they were very close. I'm not sure what the implications of this are, but it seems to me it may suggest that your preferences or the ability of your equipment or your ears to make certain discernments might be different from those who would strongly prefer one over the other.

 

[jjcha]

Honestly, I'll be the first to say I bought the DAC64, sound unheard, because it, plus the Chord Blu, looked like audio pr*n and fit into my "overpaid yuppie minimmalist" apartment back in Tokyo. I had no idea how good it sounded. So I don't think I don't have a whole lot vested into saying it's better than this or that.

All I can really say about it is as follows:

On extremely brief comparisons with the G08 both I and tk_suki had an awful hard time distinguishing the DAC64+Blu from his G08 in my speaker rig. But this was not a scientific test at all, so who knows what the truth is. (we both had more than a few asahi super dry in us, and it was at the end of a great mini-meet, so we weren't in the biggest critical listening mood.) Also, I loaned my DAC64 to tk_suki, who liked it for the two or so weeks he borrowed it. tk_suki liked it enough that he said he might have bought it over his G08 because it's more flexible - i.e., can be fed by the computer or DVD player. But again, none of these tests were hardcore audiophile A/B/A tests or anything. Now this is kind of sad considering how much more the Blu+DAC64 is than a G08, but hey, that's what we heard.

Lately I have been comparing it more with my Grace m902 internal DAC. The DAC64 is definitely significantly smoother yet more detailed than the m902's DAC. But for some reason, I find the m902's internal DAC to be more accessible with the Qualia 010 than the Chord DAC64 when using the m902 as headphone amp. The headstage is just more naturally spaced with the m902's DAC in this combo (transport is the lowly iRiver iHP-140). When I use the Chord as a DAC, I find it takes my ears a bit longer to adjust and like the headstaging. Now honestly, I don't know if it's because I'm just so much more used to the m902's DAC or not. Also we all know how damn weird/picky/whatnot the Qualia 010's headstage is. I just happen to absolutely love it (when it's good).

At the same time, I also remember when I first got the m902, comparing it and the DAC64 as source. The Chord gear blew the m902's DAC out of the WATER when I was using the m902 as amp with the SA5000. This one wasn't even close. It was buttery smooth yet with all the detail - I was really really happy with this combination. But at the same time, I don't find the SA5000 is nearly as demanding or as good as the Qualia 010 when it comes to headstage.

Still, a bit issue for concern is that recently both lan and I heard some weirdness from the Blu+DAC64's headstage when we tried it out a few weeks ago - but this weirdness went away when we reset the transport. But this coupled with my inconclusive difficulty getting good soundstage with the DAC64 as source and Qualia 010... I dunno, can't say for sure yet.

Anyway, I just got my m902 back from lan a week ago, so this is all just initial thoughts again. I really don't have all that much time with my Chord gear and headphones, as the Chord was for my speaker rig. So the honest truth is that for me there's a lot promising about the DAC64 but the results are definitely far from conclusive as I've heard issues with the headstaging. I'll be bringing both the DAC64 and the m902 to a mini-shootout at Oski's this weekend. Oski just got a Benchmark, and I definitely know lan and Romanee have discerning ears (even if their preferences are different from mine) so it ought to be a good comparison.

Best regards,

-Jason

Postscript: Oh yah, re: selling the Chord. I had two buyers for the Chord Blu + DAC64, but both were somewhat lowballing me (offering $7k when I wanted $7.5k) and I decided to pass on selling at that time. I might put it up for sale again - it all depends on system synergy with the HE90/Aristaeus or Qualia 010/Singlepower balanced amp, depending on which I end up sticking with.

 

[aug1516]

So you preferred the G08 sound to the Bel Canto? Are there any DAC's that use the G08 hardware without the CD transport portion?

 

[PATB]

I am with Ed (and TK Suki) here in that I agree a DAC is definitely more versatile tha a stand alone CD player. I love the G08 sound but it doesn't have digital inputs (well, the Meridian 808i does but it is freakin $12K+), so I don't have the option to connect it to my computer.

The EMM DCC2 looks tempting but it has preamp and DSD stuff that I don't care for (Redbook and headphones are good enough for me). Plus it is out of my price range

Perhaps a Dodson 218 or modded Electrocompaniet ECD-1 may be just the ticket.

 

[Salt Peanuts]

Not that it matters much, but ECD 1 is one beautiful looking piece of gear. And as it has already been mentioned, it does have a rather nice midrange.

Oh, and friggin' thing is 19-inches wide - the widest component I've ever owned.

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PATB The EMM DCC2 looks tempting but it has preamp and DSD stuff that I don't care for (Redbook and headphones are good enough for me). Plus it is out of my price range Perhaps a Dodson 218 or modded Electrocompaniet ECD-1 may be just the ticket.

You know the 218 is $8k, right?

Of course there's the "affordable" 263 at "only" $3k

.