[120717]

Quote:

Originally Posted by argentum /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree with your bass extension and mids evaluation, but to say that Ad2000 is more detailed than HD650 is a stretch, AD2000 has weird instrument placement for me. Both are colored, but I like HD650 coloration much more than AD2000 one. I loved AD2000's speed though.

I did say the low bass is stronger, while there is less mid-bass, so I guess it evens out, but more low-bass might be what he's looking for.
I wasn't impressed by the Denon AH-D5000, but the PRO 900 is supposed to be a good choice for bass-heads.
I do agree about the weird instrument placement comment.

I'm just wondering if balancing my AD2000s, or just buying a tube amp would make more of an improvement on the bass...

 

[Audi4ever]

I vote for Denon D5000. It should have plenty of bass for you, and if your Denon receiver is even better than my Onkyo receiver, you have something to look forward to.

 

[Fox3a]

*shovels the crap from on top my thread*

It's okay, I don't mind the discussions, it's a LOT better than just getting one post with the wrong information. At least this way I know I am getting a good mixture of people in here. It'll help me draw up my conclusion.

Source: Someone recommended upgrading the source first, which I assume is my sound card? Does anyone else agree with this? The problem with that is that I do use this computer for work a lot and rely on it. It might be silly to have a desktop sound card in a work computer, but my other components are server grade so I'm not too worried. That being said, I don't like taking things out of my computer. Maybe if I had a planned maintenance I would perform a swap to a modified card, which I've always wanted to do, just never really got around to it. Maybe I'll look into it down the road.

I really loved back in the day when I was on the Audigy sound cards. The Audigy Gamer was great, and there was tons more bass (power!) going to the Audigy 2 ZS. When I went to the E-MU.. 0404 I think it's called, I got bored. The 1212m was really cool, but I was still VERY bored with the audio. Maybe I'm immature, but my current setup, even though I greatly enjoy, I find a little boring during my "rock out" sessions. You know, late at night, playing some of your favorite songs really loud, playing the air drums, air guitar, you know, being a rock star in your own home.

... It's those sessions that I sometimes find myself bored with the HD650. They sound great, I can hear a pin drop, but they're a little boring. I was just assuming that they feel boring because of a lack of bass, I seem to remember my HD280 thumping a lot harder and being funner to a degree, but the pure audio quality of the HD650 was well worth the upgrade. Now that I think about it, I kind of miss the bass of the HD280. You could rock out on those!

A reason I've been shying away from dedicated amps is because of simplicity. I currently live in an apartment and can't rock out to speakers, but I do have to have them because we watch TV on here sometimes and I need to have speakers that simply work when I need them to. I'm never going to unplug anything from the back of my computer, so I feel like having two different outputs on the digital isn't an option. If there was an easy way to have a dedicated headphone amp, in addition to my receiver for the speakers, I'd definitely consider it.

Amp(Receiver): You as$es are going to make me get down on the floor to look at the model number...

Denon AVR-3803...It was my friend's grandpa's, so I got it for like $150 a year ago, looks like they still go for $175-200 on ebay despite being older, so I'm happy. I previously had a Sony receiver that I paid $100 for some years ago, it definitely wasn't anything special, but it was my first receiver and worked well. Despite the Sony working well, the upgrade was day and night. I've never used a dedicated headphone amp, but I can say that the Denon certainly felt like it was giving my headphones a lot more music than the Sony was. It was a night and day difference, suddenly I had so much more music going into my ears. It was a great upgrade. That being said, I've never heard a dedicated headphone amp to compare, but I'm not the type to go into a store and test the equipment, especially since I'm never going to buy it for retail price, I just don't like going into stores, I'd rather buy an amp blindly.

Oh, I did try uprading the DAC once. I bought a DAC-101 I think it's called from this forum, paid like $100. I think I had the Denon at the time, and when I got it all hooked up, I tried to force myself to use it, but it was such a night and day difference, it sounded so bad I immediately went back to the way things were, and never touched the DAC again. I actually still have it around here somewhere, but I'm not too inclined to try using it again, but I could if you guys assured me that mixed with a new amp or something would be awesome.

I also have a problem with the tiny headphone amps. This Denon will break your back if you try carrying it, and I just don't like going from that to a tiny thing with a 9v battery in it. That's another thing, if you recommend a new amp, it has to be plugged into the wall, I don't replace batteries. What recommendations would you have for an amp? What about a tube amp? I'm up for spending $200 on an amp to give it a try, what would you recommend? I prefer something with a resale value in case if I totally hate it.

I see a Maverick D1 tube amp for $200 in the forums right now, is that something I should get?

Headphones: How come no one recommended Grado, or AKG? I thought these were the favorites amongst people here. I'm surprised to be flooded with votes for Denon, but hey if that's what you guys suggest, I'm up for it. You say it has less mid level bass, is that going to hurt my "rocking" sessions?

I'm looking at pictures, does it come with a 3.5mm connector? I hate going from a large connector to a smaller one, I don't like using adapters to upgrade. My Denon receiver is a large connector.

By the way, it's hard to tell a difference, not saying I can.... But when "rocking out" I find myself putting the volume of the Denon on quite high, and just lowering the audio on my computer. Maybe this provides more power to drive them better in some way? Either way, that's what I tend to find myself doing, so maybe I can tell a difference subconsciously.

Also, I'll never get earbuds. I'm a clean person, but I think putting things in ears for en extended period of time is just gross, you're not going to convince me otherwise.

So for now, the Denon D5000 is at the top of the list for upgrades, but I'd like to hear your opinions on my other equipment that I've listed above.

Thanks!

 

[Ear Damage]

I suggested a proper amp because you already have one of the premier cans in today's market, the HD650. I run my HD650 from a LD MK VI. From the other companies you listed I have the Grado 325, AKG K701, Denon D2000 and I find neither one of them to be "upgrades" but rather a different sound signature. If you want to keep your receiver to power speakers as well then I guess perhaps Denon AHDxxxx may be the right step as it will give you the extra umph in bass that you want, easier to push and you'll have two different cans to cover a broader field of music genres.

 

[donunus]

200 dollar headphone amps are not gonna get you anywhere with the hd650 bass... People here talk about getting a dedicated amp for hd650s and I feel those amps have to be at least $800 to give an appreciable upgrade to most integrated amp headphone jacks Ive tried. I suggest just going for the d5000. Keep the hd650s too if you can so that youll have something that will scale up once you are ready to spend big bucks on an amp

 

[MacedonianHero]

The HD650s are wonderful headphones (but the clamp was just too much for my melon...now matter how hard I tried to adjust them), but I think you should think about improving your amp (and maybe DAC/source material) from your current setup. That should really improve the performance of the HD650s to a whole new level.

I have a Pioneer Elite Receiver with a pretty good headphone out, but typically my experience with headphone outs (even of pretty good receivers) has been somewhat disappointing (especially with the HD650s).

I honestly believe that the HD650s are a gateway of spending huge sums of money to grow with as they have the ability to get better and better depending on the source, dac, and amp. They can be quite sinister that way

.

They can sound quite good out of a receiver's headphone out (I've experienced this in the past), but when properly run my a matching desktop amp, they will then show you what they can fully do.

Unless you're willing to spend over $1000 for say the HD800s, all other headphones in this class (K70x, DT880, RS1, AD2000) are more of a side step that would be more in-line with your personal preferences, but not with measurable performance improvements. Many still prefer the HD600/HD650s to these.

Now if you're looking for a change, then that's cool, just find what suits your preferences better and go for it I say.

Just my two cents...Ultimately it's your money!

 

[aimlink]

I think noone suggested Grado's or even moreso, AKG's because what you seem to be looking for is a can with more bass than the HD650's.

If you want that, then I agree with the recommendations, i.e., one of the Denons or an Ultrasone.

I personally wouldn't recommend spending $200 to try a dedicated amp hoping that it will better the HP output on your Denon receiver.

It's a pity that I couldn't listen to your HD650's with your setup. I can understand your comment about the HD60's being boring. They tend to cause that reaction at times, so I am suspecting that you aren't really hearing them far from their potential. This is why a $200 dedicated amp seems like a waste. A $200 amp could well do some good for someone listening from a computer headphone out... not a Denon receiver HP out.

You'll need to spend more than that.

However, before doing that, I'd strongly recommend trying another headphone rather than another amp. That's the surest way of making a fundamental change to your setup's sound. More bass and wallop - A Denon or Ultrasone will surely deliver in that regard. OTOH, an amp upgrade for the HD650 may well not deliver and only lead to more frustration for you.

Good luck!

 

[donunus]

Fox3a,

summation of all thats been said.......

If you want to spend money to get great sound go for an amp. Not a cheap one... Think around $1000 for the hd650 as a minimum for maximum pleasure.

To get more bass and a different sound at the least possible cost while maintaining good mids and highs... get d5000s. Least possible cost especially since you said you are thinking of selling the 650s for this purchase

 

[tomk]

I use a Vincent KHV-1/pre to drive the 650's and have no problem getting sufficient bass. The combination works well.

 

[donunus]

sufficient bass is dependent on a persons taste though. maybe the hd650s just dont give enough bass for the OP

 

[plonter]

the HD650 are really more to the neutral side of things and not the opposite.
not the right headphones for bass junkies IMO. but do they really need minimum 800$ amp to shine? I am maybe lacking in experience in expensive high end gear,but I am sure there are 400-500$ amps out there that can make them show their best.
I think that 800-1000$ amps simply sound better than the cheaper ones and probably that's why it seem like they can drive the senns better in terms of amplification.

 

[MomijiTMO]

I don't think an amp should sound better. Ones that don't sound as good as others are flawed. That said, I think you can live with something cheaper than a 1k amp. While I have a CKKIII, I'm looking at what's next.

 

[pp312]

Quote:

Originally Posted by baka1969 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh great, another thread crapped all over!

And this means...what exactly?

 

[donunus]

about the $1000 amp... I should have just said a good balanced amp for the 650s to get them to a higher level. It will get more prat but it probably still wont get much more bass though... so money down the drain and the OPs original mission for more bass failed if that route is taken.

 

[Ear Damage]

If you are wanting hard hitting bass then get another can, the HD650 won't be able to provide it.


Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus /img/forum/go_quote.gif I should have just said a good balanced amp for the 650s to get them to a higher level. It will get more prat but it probably still wont get much more bass though... so money down the drain and the OPs original mission for more bass failed if that route is taken.

That's the key with your HD650, get balanced cables and a balanced amp. Look into the Denon AHDxxxx cans for your next purchase and later on down the road get the cables and amp.