[PedroH]

Today I have two headphone rigs:
Office = Meier StageDac + Meier Concerto + Grado RS1i
Home = Ayre QB9 + Lehmann BlackCube USB + Beyer T1
 
The upgrade plan is the following:
 
At the office, replace both Meier components for the integrated Weiss 202.
At home, replace the Lehmann for a Leben CS300 or alternatively the completely different Phonitor.
 
Questions:
- Will the sound quality improve i.e are these upgrades or just changes?
- Should I go for the Leben or the Phonitor (I know I am comparing apples and oranges but this is my final short list).
 
I have an eclectic music taste and I like quality music from classical to hard rock. Music will be served from a MacBookAir via USB.
 
What's your opinion?
 
Thanks, Pedro

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

Today I have two headphone rigs:
Office = Meier StageDac + Meier Concerto + Grado RS1i
Home = Ayre QB9 + Lehmann BlackCube USB + Beyer T1
 
The upgrade plan is the following:
 
At the office, replace both Meier components for the integrated Weiss 202.
At home, replace the Lehmann for a Leben CS300 or alternatively the completely different Phonitor.
 
Questions:
- Will the sound quality improve i.e are these upgrades or just changes?
- Should I go for the Leben or the Phonitor (I know I am comparing apples and oranges but this is my final short list).
 
I have an eclectic music taste and I like quality music from classical to hard rock. Music will be served from a MacBookAir via USB.
 
What's your opinion?
 
Thanks, Pedro

You may want to audition the April Music Eximus DAC. I've seen it described as essentially in the same league as the Weiss, for about half the money. The HPA section may be better than the Weiss' as well.
 

 

[BlueDevil]

I own and love the Weiss DAC202.  That said, IME, the headphone out is not all that magical.  Yes, the output voltage is adjustable, meaning you roughly can optimize it for low or high impedance headphones.  However, I don't think it holds a candle to a well-designed headphone amplifier, e.g., an ECBA or the like.  That said, I'm more of a tube guy when it comes to headphone amps, others have reported reasonable outcomes with the DAC202's headphone out, and to my understanding the RS1s are relatively easy to drive.  
 
Rather than spend $7000+ on an integrated DAC/amp, my vote would be for separates.  There are A LOT of terrific options in your price range.  Just my two cents....    
 
 
 

 

[townes]

I also own a Weiss DAC202, but - like BlueDevil - I wouldn't recommend to use it's built-in headphone amp.
 
Here are my suggestions based on what you have:
 
Home = Mytek Stereo 192 + Cavalli Liquid Fire + Sennheiser HD800
Office = Ayre QB9 + Vioelectric HPA V200 + Beyer T1
 

 

[Elysian]

Quote:

Rather than spend $7000+ on an integrated DAC/amp, my vote would be for separates.  There are A LOT of terrific options in your price range.  Just my two cents....    

I agree with this, as well.  Given the gear you listed, my first priority would be to upgrade the headphones and amp before getting a DAC202 caliber source.
 
I've been unsatisfied with the headphone out on every DAC I've heard.

 

[PedroH]

Quote:

I also own a Weiss DAC202, but - like BlueDevil - I wouldn't recommend to use it's built-in headphone amp.
 
Here are my suggestions based on what you have:
 
Home = Mytek Stereo 192 + Cavalli Liquid Fire + Sennheiser HD800
Office = Ayre QB9 + Vioelectric HPA V200 + Beyer T1
 

Thank you for taking time to specify a possible upgrade for my systems.
 
I found the HPA 200 an interesting suggestion also because it's an european product and therefore doesn't imply import taxes (I'm based in Portugal). Do you consider it to be an upgrade over my Lehmann BlackCube Linnear USB amplifier? It would be great if you could help me understand the benefits it would deliver, by comparison.
 
The Cavalli is stunning!
 
Thanks a lot, Pedro
 

 

[Gwarmi]

Quote:

Thank you for taking time to specify a possible upgrade for my systems.
 
I found the HPA 200 an interesting suggestion also because it's an european product and therefore doesn't imply import taxes (I'm based in Portugal). Do you consider it to be an upgrade over my Lehmann BlackCube Linnear USB amplifier? It would be great if you could help me understand the benefits it would deliver, by comparison.
 
The Cavalli is stunning!
 
Thanks a lot, Pedro
 

  Gain switches out back or below - V200 has 4 while the Lehmann Black cube has 3 settings.
 
  Balanced XLR connectivity - V200 = yes, Lehmann BCL = No.
 
  Power and Output voltage (not specified by Lehmann)
 
 Lehmann BCL Output power: 200mW/300 Ohms, 400mW/60 Ohms 
 
[size=xx-small] [/size]Violectric V200 Output power: 2700mW into 60ohms with 11.6V of voltage and at 600ohms (T1) 570mW with 18.5V.
 
As you can see the V200 has almost double the power at 600ohms than the Lehmann at 300ohm. At 60ohms, the V200
destroys the Lehmann by being almost 7 times more powerful.
 
 
 
  
 

 

[Saintly]

The V200 has a slight touch of warmth.  The soundstage is a bit narrow compared to some other amps I've heard, such as the Benchmark DAC-1 USB's built-in amp and the Meier Concerto.

 

[PedroH]

Quote:

  Gain switches out back or below - V200 has 4 while the Lehmann Black cube has 3 settings.
 
  Balanced XLR connectivity - V200 = yes, Lehmann BCL = No.
 
  Power and Output voltage (not specified by Lehmann)
 
 Lehmann BCL Output power: 200mW/300 Ohms, 400mW/60 Ohms 
 
[size=xx-small] [/size]Violectric V200 Output power: 2700mW into 60ohms with 11.6V of voltage and at 600ohms (T1) 570mW with 18.5V.
 
As you can see the V200 has almost double the power at 600ohms than the Lehmann at 300ohm. At 60ohms, the V200
destroys the Lehmann by being almost 7 times more powerful.
 
 
 
  
 

Two very basic / beginner questions:
1. How did you calculate the power of the Lehmann at 600ohms to conclude that the V200 has double the power?
2. Being more powerful is only about sounding louder or it improves quality? My current system is loud enough....
 
Thanks for your help. I'm an economist and this technical electronics stuf falls beyond my skills.
 
Pedro
 
 
 

 

[Saintly]

Quote:

Two very basic / beginner questions:
1. How did you calculate the power of the Lehmann at 600ohms to conclude that the V200 has double the power?
2. Being more powerful is only about sounding louder or it improves quality? My current system is loud enough....
 
Thanks for your help. I'm an economist and this technical electronics stuf falls beyond my skills.
 
Pedro
 
 
 

Having more power provides more control over the drivers and more headroom for dynamics.  It's not really anything to do with loudness as most amps can drive dynamic headphones well beyond normal listening volumes.
 

 

[TruBrew]

I don't want to sound mean, but I guess it's not since it is just my opinion. The cavalli amp's are some of the ugliest I have seen. I don't pick my audio equipment on looks, but I am just saying, it's no looker. Of course your remarks could also be in reference to sound quality. If that is the case then a suppose my comments are off topic.
 
I don't know why I have not heard anyone back your Leben idea. I have not heard the CS300 but the XS version is fantastic. I assume they are more similar than different, but I've never looked up comparisons.
 
Quote:

The Cavalli is stunning!
 
Thanks a lot, Pedro
 

 

 

[Gwarmi]

 
Quote:

Two very basic / beginner questions:
1. How did you calculate the power of the Lehmann at 600ohms to conclude that the V200 has double the power?
2. Being more powerful is only about sounding louder or it improves quality? My current system is loud enough....
 
Thanks for your help. I'm an economist and this technical electronics stuf falls beyond my skills.
 
Pedro
 
 
 

 Those figures are published by the respective manufacturers on their website
 
 http://www.lehmannaudio.com.au/amp/line/headphone.html
 
 http://www.violectric.de/Pages/de/technische-daten.php
 
 Lehmann simply choose to omit the actual power figures at 600ohms for the BCL, but the figures are not rising beyond 300ohms
 in case you are wondering 

 
 Nothing to do with loudness, all to do with driver control - the V200 fares better with most common high end headphones, having
 said that - the BCL is the more forgiving of the two amps with slightly treble orientated headphones such as the HD800 used with
 poor recordings. Ultimately though, the BCL is less detailed.
 
 Sound stage airiness is not exactly, the V200's strong point but it's not bad either.
 
 A glaring example between the two would be with the very power hungry Audeze LCD2 and LCD3 - the BCL makes both of them
 sound very laid back, a little slow - the V200 on +6dB gain increases Prat and punch dramatically. 
 
 A direct result of the different amp figures at 50/60ohms.

 

[Maxvla]

If you are trying to conserve space with the office rig check out these all in ones I've found to sound pretty good:

Invicta by Resonessence Labs $4000

Wadia 171 iTransport + Wadia 151 Power DAC $1500

 

[townes]

Quote:

I also own a Weiss DAC202, but - like BlueDevil - I wouldn't recommend to use it's built-in headphone amp.
 
Here are my suggestions based on what you have:
 
Home = Mytek Stereo 192 + Cavalli Liquid Fire + Sennheiser HD800
Office = Ayre QB9 + Vioelectric HPA V200 + Beyer T1
 

Hi Pedro

Here's how I came to my suggestions:

I know the following components because I own(ed) them:
Beyer T1, Sennheiser HD-800, Cavalli LF

I "know", better: I have a clue about the following components, because I read a lot about them since quite some time:
Vioelectric HPA V200, Mytek Stereo 192

My thoughts were:
For the home rig:
Let's go for an optimum of sound quality, build quality, ergonomics (that's why I did not mention the Audeze LCD-3) and costs.
Mytek Stereo 192: very reasonable priced, can - in addition to PCM - convert DSD (ripped SACDs, native DSD files) into analog. Over at computeraudiophile you can read a lot about this DAC.
The Cavalli and the Sennheiser are - in my oppinion - state of the art for a dynamic headphone rig.
Cavalli Audio is extremly helpful and competent, i.e.: you don't feel alone with the amp, though the manufacturer is based on the other side of the Atlantic ocean.

For the office rig:
Let's look at the available components. Take an amp, which can make full use of the Ayre's and T1's quality. The amp should not be the weakest link in the chain. Also the costs should be suitable to the other components in this rig.
 

 

[PedroH]

Quote:

(...)
 
I don't know why I have not heard anyone back your Leben idea. I have not heard the CS300 but the XS version is fantastic.
 
(...)

 
 
Yes, I have the same question...
 
My Phonitor option is also not getting much consideration so I assume that the V200 is a better solution (I don't care much about cross feed). Then, why not tubes in both rigs?  I'm even thinking why not the Cavalli and the Leben?...