[acylonmiklos]

Which would you buy? I can get either for around $260-280

Un modded teradak v3.1d

Or
Lite dac-ah with this mod:

http://www.lowther.com.hk/special_offer_C.htm

Thanks dudes!!!

 

[acylonmiklos]

Bump. Someone must have an opinion!!!
-cheers

 

[]eep]

I do have an idea. Get a teradak (or better; VALab) and do the same mod yourself. I have just ordered a VALab luxury version. I have done several modified NOS DACs. If you want I can modify a Teradak or Valab for you.

I don't really like the Lite AH. I think the box is ugly and the opamps are only money in the wrong place. The Teradak/VALab have a good USB input and reclock the input signal (reduce jitter). And I think the power supply is better.

I have done just about the same mod on the Lite AH (using Obbligato caps) and the result was pretty good. But not as good as my own modified Muse dac (4xTDA + wallwart). So I think I can significantly improve on this with the VALab.

At the moment I was looking for info on the difference in sound quality between the VALab and Teradac models, the 2.6 and 3.1 Teradak models (and eq VALab models), and the 8xTDA and the Chameleon (16xTDA + separate PS). But I can't find much.

 

[CJG888]

Sorry to dredge this ancient thread up, but I recently dug my old Teradak V3.1D up from the basement intending to sell it, and decided to keep it after using it via USB (Foobar 2000 / latest driver / Chord Silver Plus USB) for the first time. The performance via USB greatly exceeds the performance via SPDIF.

However, in future I would like to use it with my iPod Classic (Onkyo ND-S1 with Russ Andrews PSU / Chord ProDAC coaxial cable). Would it be worth using a pulse transformer on the input?

Also, I have noticed that you are still using your Teradak and have modded it. May I ask which mods you have carried out?

 

[]eep]

And you really expected me to read this? I just had the idea to browse around a bit and this caught my eye (again) within 1 day. So you're just terribly lucky or...

Yes I am still using it to my full satisfaction. It is still the best I ever had or heard (that is; as far as I can weigh it against totally other systems). I have switched pc's (laptop to Voyo Win8.1 micro-pc). I use a Musiland monitor to feed the s/p-diff input. The usb-chip gethot on the little box (2 stacked cds sized). The Teradak works just dandy when fed well. Even better with 24/96 material.

If you take care of a good output on the Ipod classic (i2s?) you could feed that to the teradak if you know how. Or coax or optical if you dont.

All I really did to the Teradak was the output caps. And not in the way you'd expect. It really doesn't need much work beside that. I'm not going to tell what I did in a public thread but it's not hard to get it to sound even better.

What I would do? Forget about the Ipod (yes I hate Apple, but that's beside the point) and get one of those windows 8.1 pads with 2 usb ports (Pipo W3f? has 1 usb 3.0 and 1 mini usb 2) and attach a big 3.5" HD. Then you can use foobar and have the best quality while being able to find anything in your Foobar database very quickly. I have a 2TB with about 3000 flac albums (16/44 - 24/192) and it works flawlessly.

 

[CJG888]

Thanks for the suggestion about the Windows tablet. I was, in any case, thinking about buying an audio server, but they all seem to offer comparatively poor value (second-rate UI and display, expensive casework, unnecessary DAC). I also don't want to have to put my computer next to my audio setup. A tablet can easily be integrated into the setup, is quiet, has a decent battery life and (hopefully) a clean output. It will (unlike my iPad) let me run Foobar, and (here's the killer argument) it can serve as the ultimate DAP. On the go, I just need to add a decent USB DAC.

I'll start investigating!

I presume I will need a powered USB hub, as the Teradak's USB input seems to require USB power (I have already tried to connect it to an iPad via CCK without success).

Do you find the Musiland offers a major SQ improvement over and above the built-in USB chip? I presume the onboard circuit is broadly similar to the Teralink...

 

[]eep]

I use the Voyo mini-pc w/o screen because I use it for Kodi to watch films too. It is very convenient to use the big screen icw a flymouse to control Foobar. And he artwork has more area for display. I think your suggestion about a powered USB-hub is quite smart. Otherwise the usb from the tablet has to do all the power routing and gets hot. The Musiland monitor 02 has it's own power. But I have that next to my PC. In my audio setup I use another Monitor 01 USD. Maybe 2 HD's and this Musiland is a bit much for the little Voyo. :rolleyes:

In practice I find no major benefit of the Musiland over the inbuilt Teradak USB other than that I know the software and this way I can check if I really am sending out 24/96.

Now I notice you have a very nice Consonance setup. Wow, I was hoping to introduce that brand to the dutch market. So far I only own a tonearm (T988). Very nice!

 

[CJG888]

Thanks, I'm a big Consonance fan. In my speaker setup here in China, I use a Reference 5.5 Mk. II (TJ Full Music mesh plate "aubergine" 300B/n, TJ Full Music 12BH7, NOS Telefunken ECC81).

This sits between the CD2.3 and a pair of Aurum Cantus Leshen (Music Goddess) Minis.

In the Cyber 20, I'm currently using a Mullard ECC82 and a pair of Psvane EL84s.

 

[]eep]

I'm quite fond of the better Chinese products. And if they're not good enough to my liking I take the soldering iron to them. There is an importer for Opera in Germany but the prices are really high compared to what they cost in China. Same with Aurum Cantus. Man, you realy share my preferences...

I am very happy with my Classic 16.2 300B. I opened it up just after getting it home and was very pleasantly surprised. No need for any of the usual modifications. Really just the best of the best in there. I use the new Shuguang 300B-L UK-design. A lot better than my older TJ's. ATM I don't own a EL84 amp anymore, but I'm quite fond of Philips Miniwatt.

But this is a DAC-thread, not a tube thread. :rolleyes:. So I'll stop now. Good luck with the mods. Sorry I don't have pictures. It was so easy and fast that I forgot to take them, which I normally do.

 

[Hyde00]

@CJG888 @]eep LOL it's been many years so I don't know if you guys will even see this. But let's see what happens LOL.

Someone is selling a Teradak v3.1D Multibit DAC in the Classified right now. But I couldn't find any information regarding it, then I somehow stumble upon this when I do a quick Google search.

So my question is, is this dac still worth it in the year of 2023 LOL. Also I don't like solder / de-soldering things so assuming if I keep it stock, does it still sound decent? Or am I better off buying something else.

This intrigued me because I've been looking for a single ended small sized multibit dac. Previously had Schiit Modi Multibit 1 and 2. Sold 1 due to poor USB implementation (this is before Unison USB), sold 2 due to wanting more mids (Schiit house sound generally is like neutral mids). Currently using Grace SDAC, was thinking to try Geshelli J2 next but this caught my eye today on Classified.

Figure I'd do some research first lol then ran into this, let me know what you guys think!

Thanks!

EDIT: This is the post in Classified: https://www.head-fi.org/classifieds/teradak-v3-1d-multibit-dac.43191/

 

[]eep]

Just yesterday I did a listening session. It made me stay up too late. Still sounds awesome. But take note that mine has a modified output stage. No caps means no sound degradation just pure signal with a 3V offset. For most amps no problem only the volume pot doesn't like it.

I use the Denafrips Ares II usually (and the internal one in the Rose streamer which is good enough for when I'm too lazy to walk over). The difference is not that big. The Ares has a little bit better micro dynamics and depth but sometimes it sounds overly smooth. The Teradak does better in dynamic peaks on piano or female voices and an overal sense of sounding 'right' like irl.

I'm keeping it as a reference because it's good and I'm familiar with the sound. And it's easy to bring to a listening session im about to do soon.

This 3.1 has better power than mine. The usb is very capable. I only have to limit the feed to 24-96 and use d2p for DSD. That was my main reason for wanting the Ares (native DSD). Other than that it's still very competitive.

The spikes make no sense. And find a way to improve, or better remove/short the output caps. Shorting is very easy, just try to do it with proper wire and a drop of solder.

 

[Hyde00]

LOL funny you mentioned Ares II because I just recently sold an Ares II LOL. As you said being R2R micro details and depth are better but I do find bass a bit soft, and overall presentation a bit polite?

Maybe I'm used to Delta Sigma where there's more "attack" and a bit edgier for rock. Though Ares II is nice for acoustic performance. I fall back to SDAC I think I liked that it's kind of a decent compromise all around (except being delta sigma it's more 2D sounding rather than R2R which is more 3D sounding).

Another chip based dac I liked was from my friend who let me borrowed his Audio-GD DAC-19 which uses the Burr-Brown PCM1704UK. I'm not familiar with the Philips TDA1543 but I wonder if they have similar sound signature? Though the DAC-19 do have an overall warm sound with treble roll off so it's not perfect either LOL. Hence why I'm still searching haha.

The Teradak does better in dynamic peaks on piano or female voices and an overal sense of sounding 'right' like irl.

This does sound good though as I listen to quite a lot of female vocal and piano. In general I do prefer dacs with pronounced/forward female vocal. How's the treble presentation on the TeraDak? I've come to realize I don't like treble roll off and don't like laid back female vocal LOL.

Otherwise I agree the spikes is a bit crazy, I wonder if it can be taken off. As for output caps, did you just remove them then do a straight pass with wire? Then the pure signal is 3V as oppose to with caps it's the standard 2V?

Sorry for a million questions, but definitely appreciate your help!

 

[]eep]

The reason for the treble rolloff is that engineers are afraid to deviate from antique white papers that prescribe a 1st order 20kHz low pass filter. That a short with a small cap. But that still takes a few dB off from the top octave. This is plain stupid because this is a fixed analog filter for 44k even if you play 96k. And what is worse: you only need it to filter aliasing tones caused by 0dB max level hf measuring sweeps. You will never encounter these peaks in music. Or real life sounds. I cut it out altogether and now it sounds open and airy. Not exaggerated, not attenuated. No pre-ringing. Just a little bit of post ringing which is no problem because it's common irl.

So the output caps are 1st order high pass, which is no problem at 20Hz, but the caps change the sound. Makes it softer, smears in time and veils the sound. If you remove them the music signal (let's call it a test sinus) moves from between - 1.5V <>1.5V (=0V average) to 1.5V<>4.5V (=3V average). That's an offset or bias (like in class A tube amps). That's not playing it 'by the book'. But what the book doesn't say is that the first thing any amplifier does after the volume pot is again the same thing (usually input caps). So the only repercussion is some crackling on the volume pot if you turn it (some static ard because of the 3V). Why do it twice if it hurts the sound? is my question.

All you need for the TDA1543 chips to work is a resistor short between + and - Now this varies with the number of chips because they are in parallel (1/R+1/R+1/R+1/R=1/Rtotal). Iirc the value you need for 8 chips is 220 ohms (it's 2k2 pp). But here is the secret for tuning those piano and female voice peaks, ie prevent oversaturation. If your value is to low it will saturate, if it's to high your volume goes down (like no short > no go). So this is where it often goes wrong. Engineers want lots of volume to get those basses pumping and fast dynamics. But it hurts those sustained midrange peaks like in piano or sopranos. Use your ears not the manual.

So all that you need is to find the point from leg 6 (left output) and 8 (right), probably the same point as before the 1cm metal capacitor, and take that to the output socket. Then find the I/V resistor and measure it and find some 0.25W carbon resistors (simple, small, cheap but good for sound) around that value and experiment. Simply connect output to ground. Just make sure the original is not in parallel or your value is going to be off.

Now this is from memory, and it's been a while, but I reduced the value just 1 tick on my 4x tda1543 from 560 to 470. So half that would do. Don't be nervous, it's not going to hurt the chips, just AB the sound.

I could be mistaken about that value. It could be it is already pretty optimal. But I'm not going to open it up to check it now.

*2 minuutes laterrr*
It's 225. I can measure from the outside. Duh. My memory is good though

 

[Hyde00]

The reason for the treble rolloff is that engineers are afraid to deviate from antique white papers that prescribe a 1st order 20kHz low pass filter. That a short with a small cap. But that still takes a few dB off from the top octave. This is plain stupid because this is a fixed analog filter for 44k even if you play 96k. And what is worse: you only need it to filter aliasing tones caused by 0dB max level hf measuring sweeps. You will never encounter these peaks in music. Or real life sounds. I cut it out altogether and now it sounds open and airy. Not exaggerated, not attenuated. No pre-ringing. Just a little bit of post ringing which is no problem because it's common irl.

So the output caps are 1st order high pass, which is no problem at 20Hz, but the caps change the sound. Makes it softer, smears in time and veils the sound. If you remove them the music signal (let's call it a test sinus) moves from between - 1.5V <>1.5V (=0V average) to 1.5V<>4.5V (=3V average). That's an offset or bias (like in class A tube amps). That's not playing it 'by the book'. But what the book doesn't say is that the first thing any amplifier does after the volume pot is again the same thing (usually input caps). So the only repercussion is some crackling on the volume pot if you turn it (some static ard because of the 3V). Why do it twice if it hurts the sound? is my question.

All you need for the TDA1543 chips to work is a resistor short between + and - Now this varies with the number of chips because they are in parallel (1/R+1/R+1/R+1/R=1/Rtotal). Iirc the value you need for 8 chips is 220 ohms (it's 2k2 pp). But here is the secret for tuning those piano and female voice peaks, ie prevent oversaturation. If your value is to low it will saturate, if it's to high your volume goes down (like no short > no go). So this is where it often goes wrong. Engineers want lots of volume to get those basses pumping and fast dynamics. But it hurts those sustained midrange peaks like in piano or sopranos. Use your ears not the manual.

So all that you need is to find the point from leg 6 (left output) and 8 (right), probably the same point as before the 1cm metal capacitor, and take that to the output socket. Then find the I/V resistor and measure it and find some 0.25W carbon resistors (simple, small, cheap but good for sound) around that value and experiment. Simply connect output to ground. Just make sure the original is not in parallel or your value is going to be off.

Now this is from memory, and it's been a while, but I reduced the value just 1 tick on my 4x tda1543 from 560 to 470. So half that would do. Don't be nervous, it's not going to hurt the chips, just AB the sound.

I could be mistaken about that value. It could be it is already pretty optimal. But I'm not going to open it up to check it now.

*2 minuutes laterrr*
It's 225. I can measure from the outside. Duh. My memory is good though

HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM.................

LOL thanks for the in-depth explanation but I think I need sometime to process the information, it's slightly out of my technical knowledge LOL. I'll ask my cap rolling friend to see if he can understand this LOL.

Again thank you so much for the detailed information, I'll do some research/reading/processing with this info and get back to you!

 

[]eep]

It's like those youtube clips of a guy interviewing young people on the street to test their level of education. "what parties fought in the Spanish American war?" and you see their minds go 'oh s#it, I never payed attention in history class, he has just found my weakness... I want out of here I'll be exposed' Then they ask in return "is this a trick question?"


What I'm saying is: you can do it, as long as you simply read. And I wasn't implying you should do it yourself. But if you want to rise to the challenge I can help you. But I'm not going to make and post pictures before you even asked.

I never had much education in electronics. Just basics during physics in high school. What I know I tought myself. Same for soldering, I just learned the basics in workshop. The biggest challenge has always been to get people who did learn those things to teach me. But I always get evasive answers because their head is full of things they learned without really understanding them or being able to explain (which comes down to the same thing).

Unfortunately 'education' is only producing trained monkeys for big corporations. Not people with free spirits who can think for themselves. Life is a yourney of learning by example. Keep asking and stay curious. It's fun to try and keep improving yourself. And you will be proud of yourself. "There is no try, only do. Do, or do not". Results will improve over time.