[RobxMcCarthy]

First I'd like to lay down a little background so that you can perhaps get a better feel before helping me with a reccomendation.

I'm a 20 year old college students and I like to do things right the first time around. My first "expensive" piece of audio equipment was a pair of Sony MDR-V600 headphones. This was 7 years ago. They use to sound "good" to me but with the recent buzzing at LF in one ear piece and loss of padding / major discomfort I'm just about ready to pitch them.

My final decision to do things "right" the first time around came when I was putting together my home stereo system. Or dorm stereo system.. whatever. I am currently using 2x Athena AS-F2 floorstanders, 1x 10 inch sealed PG Xenon x10d2 in a custom large sealed braced box with flat response running off of a Mackie 1400i bridged, and a 10 inch ported for filler/movies running on a 150 plate. The mistake I made, which I regret now is pairing the athenas with an Onkyo tx8500 analog amp. Granted, this thing can "drive" them well. But it has the signature bright highs on bright speakers and I only purchased it at the time because i could get it for $120 refurb... Now I'm buying a Nad C372 and wish I just did it on the first pass.

Now Onto The Headphones!

Music I listen to : This is going to be hard.. I listen to about 50% rock/heavy metal, 20% jazz, 20% classical, 7% trance, 3% hip-hop/rap...

So to be honest I listen to just about every genre of music - country. But I focus on Progressive Rock / Metal.

Headphones I have considered: Grado 225's; Sennheiser 595's; Sennheiser 600's; Beyerdynamic 880's (although they might be out of my price range if I can't get a used pair); I was actually really interested in the AkG 701's, but once again... expensive and new.

My main focus has been on the sennheiser 600's but they might lack the impact for rock. I've heard them before, but only with jazz which they seem most appropriate for. I really like the ideals of these headphones, they seem to be well rounded and laid back, but maybe too laid back and dark?

Secondly I've read a lot about the Sennheiser 595's yet once again I'm worried that there won't be enough bass reproduction. I've heard they're "light" in that departmen. But since this is coming from audio enthusiests one can never know to what extent it's being exagerated. (ie $1200 power cables making a HUGE difference in sound....) The soundstaging issue with the tilted drivers could also either make or break this set of cans for me...as I haven't listened to them and don't know where I can locally.

Thirdly I've tried the Grado 60's and liked them, but I might not be able to a) wear them for an extended period of time and b) listen to them for an extended period of time... The comfort and aggression issues seem to go across all of the grado line.

I have also read up on the Beyerdynamic 880's. I like that they have decent bass extension while providing excellent upper end response, but I haven't listened to any Beyerdynamic headphones before, so I have no idea what they will actually sound like.

And the followup : I'm pretty much open to ANY suggestions that can be made. I have a really hard time making up my mind with such subjective equipment as this.

I'll be powering the headphones with my computer's output ( I have a powerful sound card which is "loud" with 5% output on 32 ohm headphones; but I am not against building an amp if need be. And in a little while I'll probably be using the Onkyo to power them. Meaning if they were extremely high load I could even use the speaker outputs.

As always, thanks for ANY advice you can give.

Sincerely,
Robert McCarthy

 

[sean-xenos]

Hi,

if you found the Grado housesound too aggressive you either might try different ear pads (like reversed Sennheiser HD414 pads) to mod the sound or try Senn HD595s. The Senns are 50 Ohms so you probably don't need a headphone amp in the beginning. You might grade up your equipment later.

I would stay away from the Senn HD600s and the Beyer DT880s, imho they both need an amp to get any decent sound out of them

The Senn HD600s are better for classical music and jazz than rock/pop in my opinion.

 

[RobxMcCarthy]

Yeah, I was thinking much in the same way. I do think that my sound card will have enough drive to keep me satisfied and I am willing to build an amp / I'll have a spare onkyo soon that can be modded for headphone use...

Given this info would you still say Grado / 595 is the best option?

What about any headphones outside of the ones I listed?

 

[l_simon_l]

I love the HD600, but they are not good for rock.... but grados are

But yeah, the grados are agressive, and I find that even the RS-1 is pretty fatiguing.

I guess I wasn't very helpful... oh, well

 

[sean-xenos]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobxMcCarthy Yeah, I was thinking much in the same way. I do think that my sound card will have enough drive to keep me satisfied and I am willing to build an amp / I'll have a spare onkyo soon that can be modded for headphone use... Given this info would you still say Grado / 595 is the best option? What about any headphones outside of the ones I listed?

Hi,

your Onkyo TX8500 is an amp made for loudspeakers not for headphones in the first place. Of course this amp will probably have enough power to drive headphones, but that's not the only important thing about amplification.
All cans have much higher impedances than loudspeakers, between 32 Ohms (Grados) and 600 Ohms (older Beyerdynamics for example).
There are many threads on the pros and cons of amplifiers
that are especially made for headphone use in the amplification subforum. Do a search.

I'd also recommend to do a search on popular headphones that come into your mind here on this forum. There are just too many options to describe them all.
Many guys here are fans of Grados, Senn HD595s, Beyerdynamics DT770s or 990s, some Audio-Technicas or Sonys, all of them are good with Rock/Pop

 

[RobxMcCarthy]

I understand, however the output can definitely handle a 300 ohm load well enough. I can also build a headphone amp if I have to.

I am quicky finding that the 600's may not be suitable for rock at all...

I really am interested in the SR 225's but I'm afraid that I'll end up with sore ears. And from what I've heard different pads thin out the sound. Also the build quality on the grados leaves something to be desired. They'd have to sound quite a bit better than the 595's to warrent a purchase.

It's not that there are several great options, it's that there aren't many good options. Everything seems to have a significant downfall which is waving my purchase.

I will look into the Beyerdynamics though, they are an interesting option.

 

[dknightd]

I find the senn hd650 to be a nice all around can. Better as
an all around can than the 580/600 IMO

You might want to say what your computer sound card is. Perhaps
somebody has some comments on how it might do.

The senn 580/600/650 needs a pretty wide voltage swing, and
a fast swing, to sound their best. They seem to sound best to me
with a headphone jack with near zero resistance. Most computer soundcards
cannot deliver what they want - neither can most speaker amplifiers.
But they will sound OK that way.

I tried grados, also found them grating. From what you say above I'm guessing your are more of a senn than grado person. Beyers can
be somewhere in the middle.

I drive the senn 650
from my computer using an m-audio firewire feeding a portacorda mkII
(which has an elpac 24v linear regulated power supply on it right now).
I mostly listen to reggae, and old school rock, but lots of other things
as well.

I'm interested in trying a senn 595 one day. I think the angle drivers
may actually help in soundstage with live recordings (I have a pair of Phillips hp890 with angled drivers - they have better soundstage for live recordings than the senn650, but, are not as accurate).

I'm very happy with the senn 650. I bought them over a year ago and have
pretty much stoped looking and listening to other headphones. I was tempted for awhile by the HF-1, but it seems they have the typical grado grating that I don't think I could tolerate for more than a few songs (based only on what I've read here).

My opinion. Get the 650, a dedicated headphone amp with at least a 12v supply, smile and be happy.

 

[RobxMcCarthy]

Eh... Unfortunately that combination seems slightly out of my pricerange...

The problem is, I want the Grados for when I listen to rock / metal... and I want the grado 595's or 580/600's for everything else.

I've heard everything from the 595's suck to the 595's are the best headphone under $200.. and I don't know what to believe. But they might be the step between the grados / 600's that I want. This step is also covered by the Beyerdynamic DT 880's but I can't find a pair under $250 shipped... Whereas I had an offer to take a mint condition pair of 600's for $150... and I can get 595's at around the same price.

In fact, the biggest issue is that I'm REALLY bad at compromising. I'm a thrifty spender, but I want the highest quality... Making me effectively the hardest consumer to please...

 

[pjr300]

JMO.... I think Grados will make you the happiest based upon your listening preferences... it really captures the power and dynamics in music. Check ot the Grado HF-1 which may minimize your concerns.

If you find over time that it's a bit too aggressive, you can always match it with a tube amp (or Grados' RA-1) or some softer cable to get the tonal balance that you seek.

 

[LTUCCI1924]

RobxMcCarthy
HI: I think you would be very happy with the 595. Check the for sale forum for a good price. I got the 595 used there for 145.00 and I cant think of any headphone that is better for that price. The 595 are very balanced sounding and my have lots of bass with a lot of time on them. I use them for music and recorded and live TV movie listening.

 

[sionghchan]

Seriously, have you looked at the Beyers DT770 or the DT990? From your description, the DT880 doesn't sound like it is for you at all. I have both, DT880 and HD580 and love them both dearly...for my type of music, Jazz and Classical. Of those two, HD580 is a much better all round cans. However, what I heard is that the DT770 really rocks in the bass department. DT990 is pretty much the same as DT770 but is open (DT770 is closed).

I'm a big Senn and Beyers fan... Both, my DT880 and HD580 blew my Grados out of the water..however, it was an unfair comparison as I was pitting a MS1s and SR60 against DT880 and HD580. Also, again, for the type of music, Grado was not right for me... Although..they could be awsome for rock..

 

[RobxMcCarthy]

Thanks for the extra input guys; it's much appreciated.

Yes I have looked at the 770's and the 990's. The 770's seem like they'd have TOO much bass. And the 990's just don't sound like great headphones to me, less bass than the 880's and not as much detail...

I am interested in the grado HF-1's but they're limited in number.. I may have to wait a long time, and there's no way i could really demo them at all.

I think the 600's are out... just not going to be right for me.

So pretty much I have it down to:
595's (MAYBE 590's) MAYBE the HF-1's depending on a lot..


BUT now I saw the Sony MDR-SA3000 after reading the review on the sa5000 and became very interested... Does anyone have any info on these? I can't seem to find any reviews at all.

 

[warpdriver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobxMcCarthy And the 990's just don't sound like great headphones to me, less bass than the 880's and not as much detail...

The 990's have more bass and are slightly brighter than the 880's. They are generally considered the more "fun" of the two headphones.

Interestingly enough, the NEW 990's coming from Beyer are considered the top of the line and priced higher than the 880's (although we are not sure what changes, if any at all, are made in the new design)

Honestly, if I were you, I'd keep the 770's and especially the 990's on the list. They could be a good fit for your budget and type of music you like.

 

[fewtch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RobxMcCarthy Eh... Unfortunately that combination seems slightly out of my pricerange... The problem is, I want the Grados for when I listen to rock / metal... and I want the grado 595's or 580/600's for everything else. I've heard everything from the 595's suck to the 595's are the best headphone under $200.. and I don't know what to believe. But they might be the step between the grados / 600's that I want. This step is also covered by the Beyerdynamic DT 880's but I can't find a pair under $250 shipped... Whereas I had an offer to take a mint condition pair of 600's for $150... and I can get 595's at around the same price. In fact, the biggest issue is that I'm REALLY bad at compromising. I'm a thrifty spender, but I want the highest quality... Making me effectively the hardest consumer to please...

Maybe you could pick up a pair of Senn HD580 (very close to the 600 in sound) and a Grado SR-60 for rock? It's always nice to have more than one pair of headphones... not that I'd recommend having 20 like some people on this forum

But two is reasonable (?).

 

[RobxMcCarthy]

AHH, you guys aren't making this any easier now... heh.

Ok, after reading up some more the 990's are indeed looking like a good set of headphones. I read a review that seemed to state the opposite which I guess was a little misleading. Although now that I look at these reviews more.. the 770's may actually be the best compromise for me.

I do like bass...and I think that the Sennheisers might disapoint me in that regard.

And now after looking at the HF-1's I'm really interested in those as well as they seem to improve upon some of the only things I disliked about the Grados.. Except comfort, which is a huge issue for me. (I wear glasses, sometimes when using headphones depending on the situation.. so the grado type might be a big issue.)

So now the current list:
1)Sennheiser HD595
2)Beyerdynamic 770-80's
3)grado HF-1

I think the 580's / 600's are out of the mix, I'd like to avoid an amp at the moment. I'm basically just looking to replace my Sony MDR-V600's which are crap... so any one of these would be a HUGE upgrade.