[DeTrun]

Quote:

Originally Posted by decay /img/forum/go_quote.gif Since your entire music collection consists of J-pop etc., IE8 will not be your best choice, but that does not make it a good choice. I was trying to say there are better options, not that is isn't a good choice. I wonder where Detrun got his opinion/summary of IE8 been "too thick, dark, bassy for Japanese music", since that simply isn't true. This was when comparing the Sennheisers I've heard with other IEM I've got. ( I have not heard the IE8. I've only read about it. And IE8 seems to have the general sound signature of Sennheiser. I was only listening to the sound signature, not detail. IE8 would beat those low-end headphones. Probably. ) It seems to be that the IE8 is too dark, which I could agree with, as the Sennheisers I've heard are dark-sounding. It might even be safe to assume that the IE8 is probably one of the darkest high-end universal IEM. When I think about J-pop, I associate it with: bright headphones, not dark headphones. J-music usually needs those airy highs for a more engaging, energetic, fatiguing experience. Bass would probably be the least important frequency for J-music. It should be noticeable, without influencing the midrange/treble. So too dark-sounding IEM's would be ignored. That doesn't mean that the IE8 wouldn't be great, some people like a smooth sound signature for energetic music. But I was thinking about which IEM has the sound signature he's looking for + the sound signature which fits the music he's listening too: sparkling, airy highs, great for J-Music. UM3X isn't really a bright IEM, but it's fine for Divine Fang, because he does not like piercing treble. Although he's a bit of a basshead, he also mentioned he wants noticeable bass, without influencing the mid/high frequencies, so I assume he isn't looking for dark headphones. I've read many times that the IE8 is a dark IEM, with sometimes a bit too overpowering, thick bass. My Sennheisers are like that. I've also read that a J-pop listener bought the IE8. It was too dark. He/She mentioned that it doesn't have enough sparkle for Japanese music. Later, when letting it burn in for an amount of hours, it still was too dark, as I expected (IE8 has the general Senn sound signature, hasn't it?). He/She ended up with the W3, which was better, in his/her opinion. Treble was more pronounced. It was more engaging, emotional, I guess. Also, Divine Fang also posted that he doesn't really like the PX100. It was too dark for J-Music. I understand why. The most you could say is that IE8 got a light veil on the treble, it can handle most Asian music with ease. As for the smooth treble, IE8's sound across the board is smooth and non-fatiguing, it'll never engage you as W3 or TF10 does, nor will you get tired of listening. And NO, it will not sound boring. I said it would be too boring, compared to other IEM. It would be too laid back. Not that it would sound boring. I think that treble/sparkle is needed when listening to J-Music, because it's usually energetic, engaging. Airy highs is what I'm thinking about. So I assume the TF10 and W3 you mentioned would be better recommendations than the IE8, because they are more engaging. IE8 lack a small amount of treble which could help its high sound equal compared to its bass, which makes it not the best candidate for vocals that focus on upper mids and highs, instruments would do fine though. Upper mids and highs probably are important frequencies for J-Music, if not the most important (, which means: more important than bass) Midrange should be prominent for vocals and electric guitars. Maybe even in your face-mids, although that might be too much for Divine Fang . I'm afraid the IE8 might be too laidback in the midrange. (1000+hr IE8)

Underlined = me.

 

[Scott_Tarlow]

If I was making the decision, I would go with the TF10's. Why? Because really if you like the UE sound signature, it is hard to find anything like it. I have heard that the HP-FX500 is a more refined TF10, which you might want to check out, because I bet they fit easier. I love my TF10's, and may get them turned into customs because they are just that great. One of the things that is rarely mention in the audiophile world is the appreciation of a headphones flaws, which gives the music character. The Emphasis of treble and highs of the TF 10 overshadow the mids a bit, but it gives the music a different kind of life. I guess what I am saying is in the end, if you have found a color you like, might as well draw with it.

 

[decay]

To DeTrun:
It's harder for me to answer by quoting you, so I'll go line by line.

I do understand your intention, however the words that you used, "pretty sure" "too bassy..."
"too smooth..." are not just a tad extreme, are they? Given that you haven't
heard a well-burned IE8, it's hard for me to think you are not saying "No, don't even consider
IE8s, those impressions I've read tell horrible stories about them and Japanese music!"

As for the sound signature, did you hear about the difference between HD650 and
HD600?

Again, please stop with the "too dark" and the likes, who are you and I to tell whether
a phone or IEM is too dark for anyone except ourselves? We all have different ears, grew
up on different kinds of music, likely prefer a different sound signature than others,
the BEST advice is to say "Go listen to it!", when that's not possible due to various
constraints do we give our opinions of how the phone perform, preferably against other
phones. To summarize other people's opinion and passing them on, IMO, is as misleading
as it gets. How many people's opinion that you've read have heard their IE8 for a day, a
week, a month? How long did they burn-in, and how? What's the source? Lossy or
lossless files? EQ, if so what setting? Portable amp? What music have they listened up
till now? What phones/speakers have they used till now? What kind of environment do
they normally listen at? How old are they? Any ear injuries in the past? How big are their
ear canals? What tip did they use? The amount of questions can be endless, and what
you or me consider important could be useless to someone else. Not to say you can't
give them a lead, but it's far better to give them links to reviews, names to pm to ask
for opinion.

And some returned the W3 for IE8, the point being? If you've read some of the post
in the appreciation thread, you'll note many many threads tells tale of how one tip
changed IE8's sound signature, for better or worse.

Boring is NOT the word you should use when you mean laid back, the negative connotation
of boring goes beyond "not in your face", it could also mean the sound been mushy/muddy,
slow/dragging, weirdly colored/not colored at all, etc.

Once again, thank you for trying to help the OP with your opinion, however, please be
more objective next time. No, not all JPOP listeners hear alike, not all like in-your-face
sounds. Stop presuming.

 

[DeTrun]

Quote:

Originally Posted by decay /img/forum/go_quote.gif To DeTrun: It's harder for me to answer by quoting you, so I'll go line by line. I should find out how to split the quote I'm quoting, instead of writing in the quote. I do understand your intention, however the words that you used, "pretty sure" "too bassy..." "too smooth..." are not just a tad extreme, are they? Given that you haven't heard a well-burned IE8, it's hard for me to think you are not saying "No, don't even consider IE8s, those impressions I've read tell horrible stories about them and Japanese music!" At such moments, I curse my limited English vocabulary. If I could explain in Dutch, it would be easier. I used too bassy and too smooth, because it would be too bassy and too smooth for him or J-Music, when comparing my Sennheisers to other headphones. Dark would be the right word. It's dark. I'd also say: it's too laidback or not engaging enough. Remember, it's all compared to other headphones and keeping the kind of music the OP listens to in my mind, when I say that its, for example, 'too' smooth. I'm not saying that they are too bassy in general. I enjoy my PX100 because of that reason and also the smoothness. But not with Japanese music, it wouldn't be a really great choice, IMO. The OP also has heard the PX100, which he didn't really liked, because it was dark. I kept that in mind. I'm happy you understand what I'm trying to say, but that story about the one who owned IE8 and went to W3, isn't that horrible. Just a preference of sound signature. The IE8's treble was too smooth. As for the sound signature, did you hear about the difference between HD650 and HD600? Yes. There's a difference. I wanted to say that most Sennheisers are dark headphones. With some exceptions, like the HD280. Again, please stop with the "too dark" and the likes, who are you and I to tell whether a phone or IEM is too dark for anyone except ourselves? We all have different ears, grew up on different kinds of music, likely prefer a different sound signature than others, I was trying to give him advice. Especially when the OP posted that he found the PX100 was too dark for him. So he told us, himself. I suppose the IE8 is a big improvement of the PX100, but it is dark, which the OP might not prefer. And we listen to the same kind of music. I also think the same way about the PX100 as he does. I know that there are people who like the IE8 with J-Music. But I was thinking about what the OP preferred. The posts, where he has written what he liked and disliked about the SF5 and PX100, are helpful posts." How should I write it down, to become less harsh? The sparkle, preferred when listening to J-Music, should be more apparent with the IE8" Is this a better sentence? the BEST advice is to say "Go listen to it!", when that's not possible due to various constraints do we give our opinions of how the phone perform, preferably against other phones. To summarize other people's opinion and passing them on, IMO, is as misleading as it gets. Idd, I've posted more than once that I have not heard the IE8, and I'm only posting other people's opinion, even when summarized. Listening for yourself would be nice, if possible. But then there wouldn't be this thread. How many people's opinion that you've read have heard their IE8 for a day, a week, a month? I've read the appreciation thread, 2 times. Not kidding. I was considering them myself, so I've read many posts about them. Moseboy's posts were very helpful, he asked the info I wanted to ask. But I think it is safe to assume that the IE8 is dark and will not be a bright headphone, which I was looking for, because I've read that bright headphones fit J-Music more than dark headphones. When receiving the PFE, I agreed. How long did they burn-in, and how? What's the source? Lossy or lossless files? EQ, if so what setting? Portable amp? What music have they listened up till now? What phones/speakers have they used till now? What kind of environment do they normally listen at? How old are they? Any ear injuries in the past? How big are their ear canals? What tip did they use? I don't know anymore, but I do know that I knew it when I read those posts. The amount of questions can be endless, and what you or me consider important could be useless to someone else. Not to say you can't give them a lead, but it's far better to give them links to reviews, names to pm to ask for opinion. Well, I did, for the RE0, a few posts back. For more info, I also told the OP to ask obentou for more info, because he owns the UM3X and I don't. I was giving him a lead, by thinking what would be good for him and thinking what I thought would be good for his kind of music. I'd recommend the PFE, but other IEM would probably be better, so I don't recommend them. I recommend, not order the OP to buy those IEM. And some returned the W3 for IE8, the point being? They preferred the IE8. They might listen to other music than the OP. But I think the OP, only that person, would have better options than IE8, when knowing what he thinks about the SF5/PX100 and when knowing we listen to the same kind of music. If you've read some of the post in the appreciation thread, you'll note many many threads tells tale of how one tip changed IE8's sound signature, for better or worse. Yes, I've read it. Tips also influence sound signature, with some IEM's. Some tips only increase isolation or comfort. Some IEMs don't get influenced as much as other IEM. Boring is NOT the word you should use when you mean laid back, the negative connotation of boring goes beyond "not in your face", it could also mean the sound been mushy/muddy, slow/dragging, weirdly colored/not colored at all, etc. Oh. Idd, I should use laid back. But remember, I used boring, when I meant laid back only. Not slow or muddy. Once again, thank you for trying to help the OP with your opinion, however, please be more objective next time. No, not all JPOP listeners hear alike, not all like in-your-face sounds. I've mentioned this in my previous post. I'm aware of that fact. Or else I would have recommended IEM he probably doesn't like, like ER4P. They are bright and have a forward, in-your-face midrange. Some people might prefer to listen to the IE8, to listen to energetic music with smooth headphones. But I was thinking about what the OP would like, not other people. That's why I did not recommend the ER4P. He wants that noticeable bass, but not so much that it influences the mids/highs. What most people like, is a nice reference. Stop presuming. I don't know what this means. Something like assuming? I assumed what the OP could like.

.

 

[DeTrun]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divine Fang /img/forum/go_quote.gif So I'm left with TF10 and UM3x. SF5 sounds very good in everything except for deep bass. Mid-bass is excellent with lots of noticeable texture. Treble is bearable although would actually prefer hi-treble presence stronger. But overall would like it to be less harsh. I probably wouldn't consider upgrading if it isn't the left bud problem.

What do you think about the midrange of the SF5? would you like to have electric guitars/vocals closer to you?

TF10 and UM3X are great choices. They are top-IEMs.

Use the search button, to find reviews of the TF10. There are many, the TF10 is one of the oldest top-of-the-line IEM.
UM3x: There's the appreciation thread, you could read it.

 

[Divine Fang]

@ bakhtiar,
Do not want to drive to Singapore so I'm left with purchasing my new phone based on impressions here.
Thanks but I do not bother buying these phones at LYN forum, they are just cutting throats.

@ Scott_Tarlow,
I can't be too sure if I really like UE signature. I probably like them because I've listened to them for many years and have gotten used to the treble. I couldn't compare, SF5 is the only better phones I have.

@ decay,
The Sennheisers never did give me any remarkable impression based on comments on other threads. Got IE8 removed for my music tastes/genre anyways. No worries about DeTrun comments, I am very aware that he was commenting based on only what he have read.

@ DeTrun,
"What do you think about the midrange of the SF5? would you like to have electric guitars/vocals closer to you?"
My ears tells me that mids are spilled with mid-highs and I do not really care about "in-the-face" vocal or sound stage when listening using earbuds. So it's not a deciding factor here. I'm more concern about deep bass extension because for SF5pro with Rock EQ on Nano for trance/techno, it SUCKS!

 

[decay]

Alas, pray this post will be the last one in our discussion.

You could quote one paragraph, write your reply, then quote another. Repeat till done.

I have no problem what's-so-ever, just don't add the "too", please? I can no longer call
my IE8's bass "bassy", nor does it color the mid. As for Japanese music, the ONLY deficiency
I've heard are female vocals with thin(employ high-mids and trebles) voices, which given
that IE8 don't have a "bright" treble, sounds more gender-less than feminine. For instruments,
be it electric guitar, drums, etc., it handles them with ease, and given the soundstage
(very source dependent) one can almost imagine the band is performing on stage solely for
him/her.

Such is what I call making presumptions (btw, presume means taking for granted without
proper evidence). I know you my friend are helping the OP, but your post about IE8 gave
me the furries, and I cannot bear such harsh comment on my favorite toy

Actually, just don't add the "too"s and the "sure"s, and when you talk about IE8's bass
please add "out-of-the box". As similar as they maybe, the sound BA drivers make WILL be
different from dynamic drivers, as with UM3X and IE8's bass.

"IE8 may lack the sparkle you seek from vocals and cymbals" will do.

As much as the "dark" IE8 kick asses with its mushy and overwhelming bass, a well burned
one is somewhat, balanced. A slight leaning toward the lower end of the spectrum, but
no longer coloring other frequencies.

Alas, and they could listen to Japanese music as well? Top IEMs mostly differ in sound
signature, saying the OP will like UM3X more than IE8 IS presuming.

Following the majority can be a nice plan, yet the majority is not always correct. For
example, shigzeo reviewed JVC HA FX-500 and thought people would love this new
baby, and for 2 years it has been almost forgotten except for those brave enough to
try. Then Duncan, who started the IE8 appreciation thread, reviewed a rebranded one
against the IE8, and he vastly prefer his new toys. That got people's attention and more
people tried to order. The point being that the collective mass in any forum can be
oblivious to the good while discussing the bad, take the opinion with more than a grain of
salt.

Yes, please use laid back instead of "boring".

OP stated that he didn't like overly bright phones, I doubt anyone would say the ER4 series
are "not" bright. When the OP stated he doesn't like P100X, why the presumption of IE8
being unfitting? You read the appreciation thread twice, you KNOW IE8 requires burn-in
and after burn-in they sound different, drastically. Yet you begin with I'm pretty sure that
the IE8 would be too thick, dark, bassy for Japanese music." with the basis been
you've read many posts. To express such certainty is misleading when one haven't heard
the IE8.

Whew, to conclude, as long as you don't try to convince people to throw IE8 out the window
because of what you've read, I will refrain from been a jerk.

 

[decay]

Quote:

@ decay, The Sennheisers never did give me any remarkable impression based on comments on other threads. Got IE8 removed for my music tastes/genre anyways. No worries about DeTrun comments, I am very aware that he was commenting based on only what he have read.

I will still suggest that you hear one if you can find someone who will let you
listen, or a store that has a generous return policy.
I am/was more disdained with his choice of words than his actual content,
been a non-natural-speaker myself, I know the best intentions can get
translated into... some very funny yet sad statements.

And he did make an unwarranted bad impression of IE8 to you, did he not?

terminal> EXIT_

 

[DeTrun]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divine Fang /img/forum/go_quote.gif @ DeTrun, "What do you think about the midrange of the SF5? would you like to have electric guitars/vocals closer to you?" My ears tells me that mids are spilled with mid-highs and I do not really care about "in-the-face" vocal or sound stage when listening using earbuds. So it's not a deciding factor here. I'm more concern about deep bass extension because for SF5pro with Rock EQ on Nano for trance/techno, it SUCKS!

Yes, I see. It might be a wise choice to search some info about the TF10 or UM3X.

Quote:

Originally Posted by decay /img/forum/go_quote.gif Alas, pray this post will be the last one in our discussion. You could quote one paragraph, write your reply, then quote another. Repeat till done

I like this kind of discussions. I learn, without really getting flamed by useless arguments. Instead, I receive meaningful posts. This is a forum, anyway. Discussions are inevitable.

Also, thanks. I didn't know it was so simple.

Quote:

I have no problem what's-so-ever, just don't add the "too", please? I can no longer call my IE8's bass "bassy", nor does it color the mid. As for Japanese music, the ONLY deficiency I've heard are female vocals with thin(employ high-mids and trebles) voices, which given that IE8 don't have a "bright" treble, sounds more gender-less than feminine. For instruments, be it electric guitar, drums, etc., it handles them with ease, and given the soundstage (very source dependent) one can almost imagine the band is performing on stage solely for him/her. Such is what I call making presumptions (btw, presume means taking for granted without proper evidence). I know you my friend are helping the OP, but your post about IE8 gave me the furries, and I cannot bear such harsh comment on my favorite toy Actually, just don't add the "too"s and the "sure"s, and when you talk about IE8's bass please add "out-of-the box". As similar as they maybe, the sound BA drivers make WILL be different from dynamic drivers, as with UM3X and IE8's bass. "IE8 may lack the sparkle you seek from vocals and cymbals" will do.

I agree with what you said above. Do not forget I only took ppl's opinions and even generalized them, so I would make less mistakes regarding the sound signature. But I'll leave your IE8 alone. Enjoy them. I'd like to hear them too. I've made those presumptions because I've read about it. But I'm still skeptical about the IE8, since I've not heard it. So I do not really take it for granted. Skepticism is necessary on head-fi, where most information comes from people their opinions. I do not own the IE8. How many times have I said this?

Quote:

As much as the "dark" IE8 kick asses with its mushy and overwhelming bass, a well burned one is somewhat, balanced. A slight leaning toward the lower end of the spectrum, but no longer coloring other frequencies.

It's a balanced sound signature with strong bass presence, isn't it?

Quote:

Alas, and they could listen to Japanese music as well? Top IEMs mostly differ in sound signature, saying the OP will like UM3X more than IE8 IS presuming.

I think that would be possible.

the TF10 is also an option.

Quote:

Following the majority can be a nice plan, yet the majority is not always correct. For example, shigzeo reviewed JVC HA FX-500 and thought people would love this new baby, and for 2 years it has been almost forgotten except for those brave enough to try. Then Duncan, who started the IE8 appreciation thread, reviewed a rebranded one against the IE8, and he vastly prefer his new toys. That got people's attention and more people tried to order. The point being that the collective mass in any forum can be oblivious to the good while discussing the bad, take the opinion with more than a grain of salt.

I do not really follow the majority. But avoiding the hype can be difficult. Now, I'd like to try the CK100 and ER4P.
Idd, a grain of salt. I've learned that in English lessons, I think.

Quote:

Yes, please use laid back instead of "boring". OP stated that he didn't like overly bright phones, I doubt anyone would say the ER4 series are "not" bright. When the OP stated he doesn't like P100X, why the presumption of IE8 being unfitting? You read the appreciation thread twice, you KNOW IE8 requires burn-in and after burn-in they sound different, drastically. Yet you begin with I'm pretty sure that the IE8 would be too thick, dark, bassy for Japanese music." with the basis been you've read many posts. To express such certainty is misleading when one haven't heard the IE8.

Yes, that's why I mention that I do not own or have heard them. Most people probably use the search button and find an appreciation thread of the IE8, with many pages. I should have said that it might lack the treble or that the bass might be a bit overpowering or I don't know.

I've read also that the IE8 sounds like an improved PX100 and has the 'typical' Senn sound: warm, with enough sparkle, laid back, balanced, with bass playing a big role. Well, that's how I also hear from the many Senns I've heard/own. That's why I've written that presumption. Also that female vocal difficulty and laid backness. But I might think that the IE8 is brighter than my PX-100.

Quote:

Whew, to conclude, as long as you don't try to convince people to throw IE8 out the window because of what you've read, I will refrain from been a jerk.

Well, I'm sure that the IE8 is a great IEM. I'd like to hear it, just for fun, or to complement my bright IEM. It might fit with many kinds of music. I just assumed it wouldn't for J-Music, that's why I didn't recommend it. DnB would be great with the IE8. But when knowing what the OP might like, that was the deciding factor. I'd definitely recommend it for other genres. No hard feelings, I've learned a lot. Thank you.

I'm tired. Now, I'm worried that because of my tiredness, I've written some stuff that I shouldn't have written.

 

[steviebee]

Nice to see a discussion such as this not descend into a thread war! If only some other Head Fiers would follow your lead, decay & DeTrun!

My vote, btw, is still for Triple Fi (natch) - an outstanding IEM among a field of excellent competitors. But your choices are good, nay, great - there's a lot of superb choices out there right now. A nice change from the old 'SE530 or Triple Fi, help me choose' days (you could guess my reply, right?)

Good luck Divine Fang. Let us know which you blow towards....

 

[HONEYBOY]

Bravo to you guys!!! very mature way of saying your thoughts without flaming at each other.

If I were to choose a phone based on reviews around here it would've been the W3. Lucky for me, I can listen to any phone of my choice before purchasing. After some extensive listening. I chose the IE8s over the triple fi 10, W3 and UM3x. I think it all comed down to preferences my friend. They're all great phones but the IE8 has a unique sound presentation that to me makes for a more enjoyable listen.

After weeks of burning in am now wondering where all the bass on the IE8 is gone. Sometimes now I have to turn up the bass knob or use EQ.

About the IE8 being dark. what I would say is that they're ever so slightly erring on the side of being dark. The treble on the IE8s however provide great sense of resolution and clarity and a such, to say that they are dark sounding might not covey this aspect that "dark" connotates.I think the IE8s handle high frequencies very well in that it portrays a sense of realism that those frequencies attenuate with depth/ distance. Hence IE8s may not be as sparky as per se a triple fi 10 where depth cues are not that emphasized in higher frequency sounds.

About the IE8s being laidback I'll also refrain from using that as well, as laidback connotates being slow. In terms of rhythm and pace the IE8s are always in tune and never lose pace with fast energetic music such as rock. In fact I think they were better at rock than teh other IEMs I tried.

To the OP my suggestion for your requirements would be IE8, followed by triple fi 10 and then it would be the UM3X over the SE530 due to the greater treble extension/Quantity

 

[kojebee]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif i could also throw in the CK10 in the 'other' category. i primarily listen to trance, then techno and sometimes, rock and folk. this phone is simply stunning for every genre. it is fast, yet forgiving and beautiful for organic music. it is expensive as it is not exported from japan, but it remains my favourite. keep in mind that i have not heard the ue tf10 or the westone 3 though.

shigzeo, could you tell me if the CK10 can be worn down aswell as over the ears? I'm looking for some earphones for trance specifically and these have recently caught my eye. I enjoy my Audio Technica CKM70 for rock and jazz, but I'm looknig for my bass impact, which the CKM70 lack a little for my tastes. I prefer my phones to be worn down rather than over the ears most of the time.

Thanks

 

[punkaroo]

I'm putting in another vote for the Shure 530s

I'm surprised they haven't been recommended for rock. I listened to some U2 and Radiohead when I tested them out, and I found them to be amazing.

Now if they'd only get to me sooner!

 

[Scott_Tarlow]

Quote:

Originally Posted by punkaroo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm putting in another vote for the Shure 530s I'm surprised they haven't been recommended for rock. I listened to some U2 and Radiohead when I tested them out, and I found them to be amazing. Now if they'd only get to me sooner!

I think the thing is here, which has been said before, all of the IEMs in discussion here are going to blow away the SF5Pro, so really to the OP, don't be too nervous about what you get. THEY ARE ALL GOOD PRODUCTS, at some point you just gatta listen to the music, and stop fretting about which phone is better.

 

[punkaroo]

To the original poster: I can't stress this enough (even though I've already said so in an earlier post), if you can test out any of these IEMs, whether at a shop, or a local head-fi-er, do so. Your ears are the biggest critic, and one head-fi-er's "great bass" may be absolute crap to your ears, and vice versa. Based on what I read about the Triplefis, I thought they'd be perfect for me, but they weren't. Fit is everything too, and the 530s are outstanding in that aspect. Really, try them out if you can.

ENJOY THE MUSIC!