UM2 vs. E4c: A Comparison

Nov 14, 2005 at 5:03 PM Post #16 of 26
This is my current EQ setup in WinAmp with a computer using a basic sound card:

captura_winamp_eq.jpg


With this setup, and testing with E4 without EQ, the quality and brighness or highs are similar. Please note I'm saying upper highs (cymbals, pssss's and stuff like this, not mid-highs). For voices and mid-high sections, E4 is clearly better and more defined. I couldn't reach this in my UM2.

In other computer with other soundcard it is not needed to raise the highs that way.

In a portable MP3 player 'Inovix' there is not as mid saturation as in this sound card, so sounds better with a basic preset 'v' type EQ it has.

I don't use the Comply orange tips. I use either bi-flanges or shure yellow foams.
 
Nov 14, 2005 at 5:07 PM Post #17 of 26
Quote:

Originally Posted by roy_jones
I've got a real love-hate relationship with these things at this point. In some circumstances, I'm finding that I am very impressed, especially with soundstage and instrument separation, and that the problems I perceive with the mid-range reproduction, as well as the high end clarity and resolution aren't as bad as I might've thought.


I've got the same dilemma. I just don't have the feeling that the UM2 is worth 300 dollars, after 2 weeks of use. Like I said in my review on the UM2, I do feel they are very very clear compared to my shure e2c's. I just don't know if I made the right choice by choosing Westone. I doubted a long time between Shure (upgrading to E4C), Etymotic (ER4P) or the Westones.

I finally went for the UM2 because earphonesolutions gave them an editors choice.
 
Nov 14, 2005 at 5:23 PM Post #18 of 26
Quote:

Originally Posted by countach
This is my current EQ setup in WinAmp with a computer using a basic sound card:

captura_winamp_eq.jpg


With this setup, and testing with E4 without EQ, the quality and brighness or highs are similar. Please note I'm saying upper highs (cymbals, pssss's and stuff like this, not mid-highs). For voices and mid-high sections, E4 is clearly better and more defined. I couldn't reach this in my UM2.

In other computer with other soundcard it is not needed to raise the highs that way.

In a portable MP3 player 'Inovix' there is not as mid saturation as in this sound card, so sounds better with a basic preset 'v' type EQ it has.

I don't use the Comply orange tips. I use either bi-flanges or shure yellow foams.



Those are the two tips that I've been using most with them as well. What's really nice about the UM2's is that I can use the bi-flanges, which I couldn't use just from a fit standpoint with the Shures. That means no constant replacement of yellow foamies. The ergonomics of the UM2 are far superior for my ears, but again, this probably varies somewhat between person to person.

What I would point out, again, though in terms of your post- is why you'd be using the UM2 with a non-portable source? I'm not objecting to it or anything, or trying to tell you what to listen with...but it negates what you said about the UM2 on some level, and so I question whether you should put it out there, considering it is dependent on an uncommon use of the IEM.

If someone's just reading comments about the UM2, they might think that they should go with the UM2, based on the fact that you're saying that you can EQ it to sound great. The problem is, everyone is choosing these for their portable rigs, and in their portable rigs, most people don't have subtractive EQ.

The reason I comment, is cause my hope for this thread is to clear up some of the misconceptions that are out there for people who are debating a choice of earphone- cause I think there was a lot of that when I was choosing.

Another secondary point. The UM2 highs are kinda strange. I get the feeling that there's a bit of a strange treble spike in the upper range that can give these IEM's something of an odd flavour. Meaning you've got a slightly dark sound, but all of sudden you're hearing these symbols crashing amidst this darker presentation. That might be partly attributable to the effects of trying to EQ up the treble using additive EQ. I don't notice this as much with no EQ, although I would say that it still exists.

I'm kinda wondering whether I wouldn't like the E5 more than UM2. A little bit more even presentation from I can gather...perhaps more recessed highs, but I don't see the UM2 highs as all that great anyways, and a more musical forward mid-range, which I like.
 
Nov 14, 2005 at 5:35 PM Post #19 of 26
Yesterday I was listening to U2 - Live at Slane Castle on my PCDP (which cost me about 100 dollar). I ripped to songs in WAV-format and was very amazed by the clarity of the UM2. I modded my large complys (just cut off the top end), and compared to the standard ones, treble just opens up, a lot
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Nov 14, 2005 at 5:42 PM Post #20 of 26
sidewinder, this is the key: UM2 are very sensible to poor recordings / encodings or some kind of recording method.

For example, I note that american productions sounds far better than european productions.

When I have doubts about UM2 performance, I just have to listen to one of this songs:

jamiroquai - (dont) give hate a chance
stevie wonder - my love is on fire
michael mcdonald - aint no mountain high enough
Meat Loaf - Life Is A Lemon And I Want My Money Back (Remix)
And all Maddona's new album.


In this cases, UM2 are simply gorgeous. The highs are fine, liquid and crystal, the bass is round and big, and the mids are spacious and relaxing...

Same settings, same equipments, with some other songs, the sound can be terrible, so the EQ have to be fixed.
 
Nov 14, 2005 at 5:49 PM Post #21 of 26
Quote:

Originally Posted by countach
sidewinder, this is the key: UM2 are very sensible to poor recordings / encodings or some kind of recording method.

For example, I note that american productions sounds far better than european productions.

When I have doubts about UM2 performance, I just have to listen to one of this songs:

jamiroquai - (dont) give hate a chance
stevie wonder - my love is on fire
michael mcdonald - aint no mountain high enough
Meat Loaf - Life Is A Lemon And I Want My Money Back (Remix)
And all Maddona's new album.


In this cases, UM2 are simply gorgeous. The highs are fine, liquid and crystal, the bass is round and big, and the mids are spacious and relaxing...

Same settings, same equipments, with some other songs, the sound can be terrible, so the EQ have to be fixed.



All true
smily_headphones1.gif
but I don't have an EQ, so I'll just have to listen to those 'crappy' recordings.. but some recordings, yeah, just awesome
rs1smile.gif
even classic music hits the spot..
 
Nov 15, 2005 at 3:03 AM Post #22 of 26
Quote:

Originally Posted by roy_jones
Those are the two tips that I've been using most with them as well. What's really nice about the UM2's is that I can use the bi-flanges, which I couldn't use just from a fit standpoint with the Shures. That means no constant replacement of yellow foamies. The ergonomics of the UM2 are far superior for my ears, but again, this probably varies somewhat between person to person.

What I would point out, again, though in terms of your post- is why you'd be using the UM2 with a non-portable source? I'm not objecting to it or anything, or trying to tell you what to listen with...but it negates what you said about the UM2 on some level, and so I question whether you should put it out there, considering it is dependent on an uncommon use of the IEM.

If someone's just reading comments about the UM2, they might think that they should go with the UM2, based on the fact that you're saying that you can EQ it to sound great. The problem is, everyone is choosing these for their portable rigs, and in their portable rigs, most people don't have subtractive EQ.



Not everyone uses IEMs exclusively for thier portable rigs. Countach apparently uses them with his computer set up, and I could be wrong, but I don't think I've ever seen him advocating these exclusively for portable use. In fact his Winamp EQ implicitly shows he is not using the UM2 as a portable (unless of course he uses a Pocket PC phone).

I own(ed) the Ety ER4, UM2, and the E4c at the same time, and when I decided to sell one, it was the E4c. Even with 5th Gen Ipod EQ presets (treble booster in this case) I've found the UM2 to be a superior portable headphone than the E4c; the latter just sounds "small" in comparison.

From a strict SQ/refinement standpoint, IMO the Ety ER4 makes the E4c sound slightly "cheap," and "plastic-y," like a 2D cardboard cut-out of the music. Now don't get me wrong, the E4c is a fantastic IEM, but as a portable I felt the UM2 was clearly superior, and from a SQ standpoint, the Ety clearly outclasses it (Hell, properly driven the ER4P/S outclasses a good majority of full sized headphones!). For me the E4c had no particular "niche," to speak of so unfortunately I couldn't justify keeping it around.
 
Nov 15, 2005 at 6:33 AM Post #23 of 26
Roy_jones, you have discovered a few things that I found, and a few things that I've been growing tired of over the past few months.

To me, your descriptions seem spot on. Objectively, the e4 reproduces sound that is more resolved and more accurate than the um2. You seem to be the only other person who has noticed the (rather obvious, imo) vocal coloration. My guess is that the bass driver plays more of the spectrum that it's intended to, giving a fuller, darker sound to the music. I didn't know the 627 is regarded as a bassy opamp. My class-A ne5534 has much more bass and less clarity in the treble than the 627, so I'm surprised to hear that.

With the um2's, the tips do make a big difference. If you are using the tri/bi-flanges, they are the most trebly of the various tips, I found. The biggest advantage of the um2's is their ergonomics and fit, I think they are the best of any IEM I've tried. For me, though, the e4's are more comfortable than most iems.

Another thing you now see is the inaccuracy and unreliability of much of the information being spread around here at head-fi. It's a fantastic site, and much better than most on the internet in this regard, but people are still unable to separate their subjectivity from objective differences. Rationalization is certainly the most frequently used eq.

It also seems people care more about what sounds pleasant than about fidelity, which I thought was the point of this site. It wouldn't be a problem, but it's that people claim their euphonic preferences as objective fact, which is pretty annoying. I mean, I certainly don't think I know what I'm talking about, but I am aware of when I am stating what I believe is fact and when I am giving an opinion.

Either things have gone downhill in the short year I have been here, or, as I've learned more about headphones, and as my ears have been trained to hi-fi sound, I am better able to see that there is a relatively small portion of people on here that really know what they're talking about. In the end, you can't stress about it too much, because things aren't really going to change. Just state your piece and move on. If someone doesn't like what you say, they are most likely going to reply saying you're wrong, so that people reading don't actually know what the truth is unless they have experienced it firsthand.

To me, it is a fact that the e4c will never sound like the um2, and the um2 will never sound like the e4. Regardless of eq'ing. The um2's treble is more recessed than the e4, and it is also not as resolving. If you eq the treble up more, it helps, but it still doesn't reach the right amount of detail and balance with the rest of the spectrum. Then you exceed the capability of the drivers and the treble becomes harsh and sibilant. The bass of the e4 can only be upped so much before it starts sounding bloated and...bad.

I also agree about the limited usefulness of extensive eq'ing to make an IEM sound better. In the portable situation, almost no one has that kind of eq. And I feel it's sort of pointless at home, since $100 full-sized headphones sound better than most iem's.

I agree that the er4 has greater clarity and better accuracy than the e4. However, I think the er4's are a bit harsh and sterile, to a point where I did not find the music enjoyable. So, even though I believe the er4 to be a technically superior canalphone, it's not by that much, and I think the e4 is the be compromise between an accurate and detailed sound, while retaining some warmth and pleasantness to the sound, without being harsh. But that is just my opinion.
 
Nov 15, 2005 at 9:42 AM Post #24 of 26
I use UM2 in a desktop computer when in work, because I don't want to wear full sized cans there...

Of course I use my IEMs in a portable system: for that, I have two sources: A HP iPaq where I can EQ exactly as WinAmp and a Inovix MP3 Player who offer a great sinergy between this IEMs, making then sound nice, without that nasty mid hump that the iPod Nano delivers to UM2.

In home, I use to listen with speakers. (Yeah! this IS soundstage, men.. lol), but at night I like to enjoy the sound and the confort of the UM2. My old MD25-13 crunches too much the head and the sound is too punchy, they are perfect for DJ'ing, not for listenig.

Jmmmmmmmm, I respect all your say, as always, and when you say E4 is much more detailed and Hi-Fi than UM2 you are not wrong. In fact the E4 mid-highs are unrechable to UM2. When I say the UM2 reaches highs as E4 I am talking about the upper highs. This ones in the cymbals, air and non-harmonic upper frequencies, not the musical highs (wich are lower).

In fact the principal problem with UM2 are the mids. They can be very nasty and sibilant.

But, in all A/B comparations with my co-worker's E4 (now i have them in a couple of meters away -6 feet-), I always make the conclusion of the UM2 being with bigger sound, warmer, powefull and magnificent despite its lack of definition in the mid-highs.

And, yes: Sometimes I miss the detail there: That's why I'm thinking in getting the ER4S... ...oh, screw sorry about the wallet again... ¿can somebody ban me from this dangerous site...?
 
Nov 15, 2005 at 9:56 AM Post #25 of 26
That's exactly what I'm missing.. the shure e2c even had somewhat more detail in the midrange, compared to UM2.. strange
frown.gif

but highs and lows are way better
cool.gif
 
Nov 15, 2005 at 2:52 PM Post #26 of 26
I think I've come off a little harsh on the E4c without really meaning to. I actually think they are incredibly good IEMs, and they would be the first IEM I would recommend to anyone due how versatile and balanced they are. I consider the E4c the "jack of all trades," of universal IEMs, can't go wrong with them!
 

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