[wired00]

Hi

I've read all forums i can on these two headphones and really can't decide which ones to go for.

I listen to all genres of music but especially like most forms electronic, rock/post rock, reggae and classical

I guess I'd prefer closed headphones because I'll often use them at work so the 650's will probably annoy a few people. Having said that I often borrow my work mates SR80s which are also open and they don't seem to cause to many "noise" complaints

Could you please comment if you've heard or own both headphones? Are they both quite snappy and great at producing very low bass? For music like drum & bass, dub reggae, dubstep, minimal techno etc I want something which can produce good quality low bass. I read this is what the 750s are great at.

Also, if anyone is selling please let me know. I've been checking the for sale section and seems HD650's can be had for around $250. I've also seen pro750's shipping from taiwan for around $290 us new which seemed quite good

I have a US shipping address if any wants to sell

thanks for any advice

PS: before you say "why not A-B them at a shop?" I can't. I'm in australia and pretty much the best i've seen to test in electronics shops are HD595's ... forget ultrasone completely, i've simply never seen the brand here except online.

PS: i have a ibasso D2 Viper so the cans will be amped. 650 need juice so i hear so thats not a problem.

Also, i was previously considering hd580/600's but read in someones comparison that he far preferred the HFI750's over the 600's. Hence, im wondering how they perform against the 650's.

 

[Peter Pinna]

Have you seen this?:

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/ult...review-343241/

Beyond reading the above thread, I would suggest contacting Covenant as he would also have some experience with the Senn 650, if I recall correctly.
Good luck.

 

[wired00]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Pinna /img/forum/go_quote.gif Have you seen this?: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/ult...review-343241/ Beyond reading the above thread, I would suggest contacting Covenant as he would also have some experience with the Senn 650, if I recall correctly. Good luck.

cheers actually thats the thread i was referring too. He far preferred the HFI750 over HD600's but im wondering how the 650's compare. Also what i understand the 650's will scale far better than the 750's so im really unsure what to go for. im leaning towards the 650's at the moment

 

[Peter Pinna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wired00 /img/forum/go_quote.gif cheers actually thats the thread i was referring too. He far preferred the HFI750 over HD600's but im wondering how the 650's compare. Also what i understand the 650's will scale far better than the 750's so im really unsure what to go for. im leaning towards the 650's at the moment

Covenant is a great communicator and one of your fellow Australians. He also seems like a really nice guy. I'm thinking he would be able to help you with this decision. Actually in his thread, the two headphones he was comparing were the Senn 600's and the Pro 750 (not the HFI 750).
FYI, I own the Proline 750's and I really enjoy them.

 

[sacd lover]

IMO .... the Senn 580/600/650 is a much better sounding headphone. The Senn has a more natural and realistic tonal balance, more refinement and is more coherent. The 750 has an odd tonal balance, a brash, sibilant treble and the bass, mids and treble dont not blend together seamlessly like with the Senns. Headroom gives the Ultrasone PL750 a 2.5 out of 5 rating vs a 5 out of 5 rating for the Senns. Personally, I like the Senn 600 even slightly better than the 650. But, I definitely prefer the Senns to the Ultrasone.

From Headroom ....

Ultrasone PROline 750

These sealed headphones from the German-based Ultrasone company are perched right at the top of their closed-earcup line. Unfortunately, the ballyhooed high-tech titanium drivers in the 750 tend to produce a rather over-articulated, 'peaky' sound in the uppermost treble frequencies -- at least to our ears. The ProLine 750's bass response also sounds somewhat boomy and undistinguished for such an upscale headphone with a signature veiling of the mid-ranges that seems to place further emphasis on the edges of the sonic spectrum; Thus, the upper highs/lowest lows are certainly very present but not quite musically transparent or "neutral" enough to earn our undying sonic admiration given the steep pricepoint. The ProLine 750 has a fairly loose & comfortable headband fit so keep in mind the noise-blocking seal is not as thorough compared to other closed-earcup Ultrasones in their 'HFI' headphone series. This factor may or may not be a good thing depending on the overall level of ambient 'isolation vs comfort' you are personally seeking. So although the ProLine 750 have a very uniquely "exciting" sonic signature that some listeners may find to be up their headphone audio alley, there are likely better-value headphones to be found from Ultrasone such as their HFI-700 model, for example.

Senn 650

With the HD650, the music is so smooth and relaxed when it’s supposed to be; so liquid-quick, so punchy on demand, so effortlessly competent you just fall worry-free into its lovely sonic embrace... Such a thing is the Sennheiser HD650. Its warm yet refined and impossibly seamless sound coupled with superb comfort has kept this can in the top echelon for years as one of the very best headphones available on the audiophile market.



First and foremost, Sennheiser has improved the baffling damper for tighter acoustic control, and boy did that work nicely! The measurements of these headphones are as close to perfect as we’ve seen, and the sound is probably as close to perfectly neutral as we’ve heard from Sennheiser. The traditional Sennheiser sonic 'warmth' has been coupled to a clarity of detail in the HD650 that is hard to beat by most other reference-grade headphones. Design-wise, the earcup grilles on the outside of the earpieces have been made sturdier; those who have suffered a dented housing on their HD600’s will likely be appreciative. A new velour headband pad design improves on the already legendary comfort of the HD650 headphones, and a slightly tighter tension on the earcup adjusters makes for a more secure fit. The HD650 cord has also been much-improved with a thicker OFC cable design terminated to a full-sized 1/4" plug. A short cable-style adapter to a 1/8" (3.5mm) mini-plug jack is handily included in the HD650 package. We definitely more than recommend these headphones: We say shell out big & cry once, but forever have world-class audio at your ears!

 

[Peter Pinna]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover /img/forum/go_quote.gif IMO .... the Senn 580/600/650 is a much better sounding headphone. The Senn has a more natural and realistic tonal balance, more refinement and is more coherent. The 750 has an odd tonal balance, a brash, sibilant treble and the bass, mids and treble dont not blend together seamlessly like with the Senns.

I have listened extensively to the Pro 750's and IMEO, it is absolutely not true that "The 750 has an odd tonal balance, a brash, sibilant treble and the bass, mids and treble dont not blend together seamlessly..."
In actuality, the Pro 750, when burned-in has a great tonal balance which transitions throughout the entire frequency range beautifully, IMEO. The Pro 750's, IMEO, are wonderful sounding headphones. They are absolutely my favorites of the ones I've heard. And, to anticipate a possible question from the OP, no, I haven't heard the Senn 650's. But, again, try contacting Covenant about this issue.

 

[wired00]

thanks guys i'll send covenant a message

 

[Peter Pinna]

Sacd lover,
Among some audio professionals, that HeadRoom review you posted has become a cause of laughter and disagreement (with the reviewer) and even, unfortunately, some degree of ridicule. I actually read that review before hearing the Proline 750's. After hearing them, I found myself in a high degree of disagreement with the HeadRoom review. The Pro 750's are becoming more and more popular with Audio Professionals.

 

[wired00]

well I'm thinking I can't possibly be disappointed with either

Also, will my iBasso D2 do the 650's any justice or should i be looking asap for something like a Little Dott SS or valve amp?

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Pinna /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have listened extensively to the Pro 750's and IMEO, it is absolutely not true that "The 750 has an odd tonal balance, a brash, sibilant treble and the bass, mids and treble dont not blend together seamlessly..." In actuality, the Pro 750, when burned-in has a great tonal balance which transitions throughout the entire frequency range beautifully, IMEO. The Pro 750's, IMEO, are wonderful sounding headphones. They are absolutely my favorites of the ones I've heard. And, to anticipate a possible question from the OP, no, I haven't heard the Senn 650's. But, again, try contacting Covenant about this issue.

Well I have .... along with every other headphone of note. The Ultrasone 750 simply sounds nothing like the live music I hear weekly. The Ultrasones add sibilance with their peaky tonal balance and the odd driver placement muffles the midrange. I cant distinguish the tonality of guitars anything like I can with my Senns or especially the Alessandro MS2i. The 750 bass is ok if you like bass on the overbearing side. But, none of the parts of the 750 blend into a coherent whole like the Senns do.

I suspect if you were to do some comparisons and broaden your experience you will likely hear the flaws I mention too. So far, you, like so many before you, hear something you like and assume that nothing will be better. I am glad you enjoy your 750's but any of the Ultrasones I have owned or auditioned just dont sound right. I have tried to listen to the Ultrasones only to acclimate to the Ultrasones. But I can barely stand to do so. Returning to any of my preferred headphones .... Senn 580/595/600, Alessandro MS2i/ woodied Alessandro MS1 .... or even the AKG 701 I find lightweight and sterile at times .... is pure relief.

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Pinna /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sacd lover, Among some audio professionals, that HeadRoom review you posted has become a cause of laughter and disagreement (with the reviewer) and even, unfortunately, some degree of ridicule. I actually read that review before hearing the Proline 750's. After hearing them, I found myself in a high degree of disagreement with the HeadRoom review. The Pro 750's are becoming more and more popular with Audio Professionals.

So what? I read the review and I very much agree with Headroom. I trust my own ears and the opinions of people I know who listen critically. I know many people, who likely listen to far more music on better systems than these mysterious Audio Professionals, who cant stand Ultrasones anymore than I can. Honestly, I think Headroom was kind. I would rate them a 2.

Moreover, I dont know who these Audio professionals are, but judging from some of the recordings and masterings from this era .... producing a natural and uncolored sound is something they DO NOT seem to strive for.

 

[grayeyes]

I will suggest HD650 you can not go wrong.

Very open sounding but be careful when use in your office.

 

[wired00]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grayeyes /img/forum/go_quote.gif I will suggest HD650 you can not go wrong. Very open sounding but be careful when use in your office.

heh like i said the grado sr80s don't cause any issues and they pump out a fair bit of sound so hd650's shouldn't be a problem. with the sr80s if you turn the cups around and listen to them backwards there is actually more sound coming out the back of them then the front lol

 

[catscratch]

The HD650 will not run well of a D2. Just not enough power. The HD650 needs a stationary amp. Properly driven it will smoke the 750 or any other Ultrasone for that matter, but driving it properly will take quite some cash.

Honestly, I'm not sure what will work in this price range. Maybe some Beyers? DT880? 990? I don't really know.

P.S. I don't agree with Covenant's review. I did something similar with PL2500 (open version of the 750), HD600, and HD650, and let's just say that I still have my HD600 and HD650. The 2500 has moved on.

 

[Andrew_WOT]

HD650 is head and shoulders above PL750, but your iBasso will not do them the proper justice. I would look somewhere else, check out Denon D2000 and AKG-K271S. Both are excellent closed cans, K271S a bit pickier for proper amplification but I had no problem driving them with Pico, not sure about iBasso, never heard one.
Out of two I preferred AKG, but that can be just a matter of taste and personal preferences. Denon was too bassy to my taste with smeared details, stretching headband somewhat helped with that but still they were not moving me like K271S, plus build quality is not as great as Austria made AKG, which are built like a tank. You will definitely appreciate auto shut off feature which mutes the sound when you take them off, very handy in office environment, plus they isolate much better than Denon. I'd recommend getting velour pads right away as with stock pleather they are not the most comfortable phones in a long run. If I am not mistaken MkII already comes with spare velour pads stock, otherwise you can order a pair directly from AKG or headroom.

P.S. I agree on everything sacd lover said about Ultrasones. Pretty much my experience, unnatural positioning, recessed mids, shrilling metallic highs and overbeating bass. The comfort is not that great either. I wouldn't recommend them to anyone.

EDIT: Almost forgot, there is also ATH-ESW9 which will work fine even unamped. They are GORGEOUS.