ultrasone frequency responses / differences ?

[fernando]

when i compare both responses i see that deeper frequencys and the midrange of DVD is louder, but when i compare those as example with one the beyerdynamic dt 990 i think their bass is much more louder & expanded:

gerG it will be interesting to compare this responses with yours.

now i have the responses of ultrasone but i can´t yet make a decision.

which one would you prefere after the responses now ?

 

[gerG]

Hi fernando.

First of all, be careful with response measurements. It is much more complicated with headphones than speakers. The coupling device (head, dummy head, coupler) the test method, mic location, and correction curve will all make a huge difference. Also beware that the Ultrasone curves have different scales (5db/div on one and 10 db/div on the other).

I would not choose between the 650 and 700 based on those curves. You may have to actually listen to them

Just for grins I pressed my reconfigured in-ear mic into service. This trace is without cal, and there some errors that I still have to check for. You have been warned.

Green is the HFI650, purple is the Sen HD600. I used no eq or mic correction, so these are at ear response. If I did a correction for diffuse field it would tilt the curve down to the right. Curves are unsmoothed. A bit jagged because I only took 100 samples. Oops. I do these with my glasses off, so I thought I had 1000 in the box.

I tend to ignore details above 2000 hz for now, other than general level.

Initial conclusions:
Holy crap the Ultrasones have a lot of bass energy! I suspect a resonator at work, but I will have to wait until this weekend to check. The Sens win with that liquid midrange. The Ultras don't step of the treble cliff as quickly as the Sens. All of this is obvious from a quick listen, of course, but it is fun to have a picture isn't it.


Nighty night.


gerG

 

[fernando]

Thank you gerG

You are right.
This response measurements are not enough to decide, but it´s a little help, cause when i work with one the ultrasones i can estimate how how flat the bass or midrange is. First I wanted to buy the AKG 240DF but i can´t hear them right without an amp ( 600 OHM ) and there bass is too less for me, cause i am making music with more bass. The Ultrasones are an very good alternative.

I will hear both before buying one. Of Course, thats the better way.

PS: I did remember a response of the HD600 on headphone.com. On this there Bass is louder. Here it is:

 

[halcyon]

gerg,

with my "tired ears" and "burning sensation" I actually mean both: the physical discomfort of the headphone (even if not playing) AND the listening fatigue caused by phones that have an amplitude response that just makes me want to stop listen to them.

I've tried modifying my HFI-650 for better comfort and less fatigue, but haven't had great results yet.

regards,
Halcyon

 

[JohnM]

Fernando, bear in mind that the "normalized" responses on the Headroom product measurements page are relative to a nominal ideal response. To see the actual response, go to the product page for each headphone and select the "FREQUENCY RESPONSE" graph.

 

[fernando]

Quote:

Originally posted by halcyon gerg, with my "tired ears" and "burning sensation" I actually mean both: the physical discomfort of the headphone (even if not playing) AND the listening fatigue caused by phones that have an amplitude response that just makes me want to stop listen to them. I've tried modifying my HFI-650 for better comfort and less fatigue, but haven't had great results yet. regards, Halcyon

which time do you use the trackmaster ?

i want to use them only late nights, when my daughter is sleeping.

 

[fernando]

Quote:

Originally posted by JohnM Fernando, bear in mind that the "normalized" responses on the Headroom product measurements page are relative to a nominal ideal response. To see the actual response, go to the product page for each headphone and select the "FREQUENCY RESPONSE" graph.

I did read all information´s on the ultrasone.com & ultrasone.de website but they had only responses of the HS-650 which is identical with the 650 trackmaster. That was the reason to open this thread and to ask ultrasone self for this responses.

 

[gerG]

Hi halcyon.

I assume that you have done the swap for the DT250 pads. Still looking for more space in there?

btw, the 250 pad swap brings the bass down a bit, at least to my ears. Leakage through the pad/head interface I suppose.


gerG

 

[fernando]

gerG

what do you think about the

Natural Surround Sound of your ultrasone against your sennheiser phones ?

do you think their is a difference ?

 

[JohnM]

Quote:

Originally posted by JohnM Fernando, bear in mind that the "normalized" responses on the Headroom product measurements page are relative to a nominal ideal response. To see the actual response, go to the product page for each headphone and select the "FREQUENCY RESPONSE" graph.

Fernando, in the post above I was referring to the plots you posted of the BeyerDynamic and Sennheiser measurements from the Headroom site. Those are measurements relative to a nominal ideal, not absolute measurements. To get responses you can compare with gerG's measurements you need to go to the individual product pages on the Headroom site, not the Product Measurements page.

 

[gerG]

Hi fernando.

Yes, there is a difference, but I haven't taken the time to decide whether it is a good difference. I usually find tricks like this that are used to create a wider soundstage fatiguing. The Sony CD3000 were an extreme example. otoh the Beyer DT880 use a similar trick, and I get along just splendidly with those.

I have been using the HFI650 with a Perreaux amp at work this week. So far I like them, but they do get warm after awhile. I switch off with my DT250-250 to let my ears chill, or Etymotics when I want real isolation.

Saaaay...now there is a good option for you. The Etymotic ER4S would fit the closed headphone need, and they would be great for monitor/mastering duty, I should think. They are my favorite at the office, but repeated install and removal can get tiresome on busy days, hence the Ultras and Beyers.


gerG

 

[gerG]

Oh yeah, JohnM is quite correct. The absolute response shows a rolloff in the bass region. Their curves still look different than mine, for various reasons. One is their correction for diffuse field (I think that is the one they chose). It represents the response at a virtual speaker surrounding the listener (somebody please clarify if I am off base here). It is part of the reason that they show a tilt down to 1000 hz (for the HD600) and I don't. The Headroom system conforms to industry standards, so they are using a standard approach. For my needs, and to avoid headaches trying to extrapolate to a different reference frame, I prefer the "at ear" measurement. My mic is not truely in ear. The sensor is at the plane of my outer ear, while the body fills in the bowl of my ear to eliminate some strong reflections. My motivation is to collect data to allow tuning of my equalizer curves.


gerG

 

[fernando]

Quote:

Originally posted by JohnM Fernando, in the post above I was referring to the plots you posted of the BeyerDynamic and Sennheiser measurements from the Headroom site. Those are measurements relative to a nominal ideal, not absolute measurements. To get responses you can compare with gerG's measurements you need to go to the individual product pages on the Headroom site, not the Product Measurements page.

now i did find the right ones.
I didn´t understand your message before.

i will replace the responses above, now.

thanx.

 

[fernando]

Quote:

Originally posted by gerG Hi fernando. Yes, there is a difference, but I haven't taken the time to decide whether it is a good difference. I usually find tricks like this that are used to create a wider soundstage fatiguing. The Sony CD3000 were an extreme example. otoh the Beyer DT880 use a similar trick, and I get along just splendidly with those. I have been using the HFI650 with a Perreaux amp at work this week. So far I like them, but they do get warm after awhile. I switch off with my DT250-250 to let my ears chill, or Etymotics when I want real isolation. Saaaay...now there is a good option for you. The Etymotic ER4S would fit the closed headphone need, and they would be great for monitor/mastering duty, I should think. They are my favorite at the office, but repeated install and removal can get tiresome on busy days, hence the Ultras and Beyers. gerG

i did read your message, but can´t understand this enough, cause my english isn´t the best

I did see the Etymotic´s before, but thought that they are build only for drummers

I did ask Jan Meier from meier-audio.com 2 weeks ago above the differences between ultrasone 650 trackmaster & AKG K271 Studio.

He told me:

"The HFI-650 is a little bit cleaner and slightly more neutral
but it also tends to become a little bit sibillant, especially
at higher sound volumes. It's also rather heavy and warm to
wear.

The K271 offers slightly less detail but sounds a little bit
more smooth. It's not as heavy as the Ultrasone and more
comfortable.

Both phones were designed for monitor applications. For sound
the HFI-650 has the edge. For comfort the K271 will be a little
bit better."

So I decided too buy the ultrasone but did find the DVD model on their homepage and get a little bit confused.