[Golden Ears]

These forums are really funny, so much arguing, and so much correcting by others – it is endless entertainment. But there is a wealth of information there.
-
I come from the land of big full format, full range speakers, and not headphones, so when I heard the edition nine’s they sounded extremely natural to me almost immediately. It took very little to get used to their sonic signature.

I don’t listen to headphones much critically, mostly because I don’t find the soundstage or imaging satisfactory – nor the frequency response (uh I can’t feel any visceral bass, nor the overall tonality to be very satisfying. I pretty much relegated headphones to keeping me occupied while doing a task- and not for critical listening or truly satisfying listening. They mostly serve to keep me amped during sports… or to break the monotony while doing work on the computer.

However all of that changed when I heard the edition nine headphones. They were re-wired with the APS headphone cable version 3. Now I know there is no way for me to get the true sound of the ultimate ears UE- 11 in ear monitors without actually having a molded impression of my ear. I think the demo UE-11 must fall short of a true demo.

So I am wondering… who out there has both the Ultrasone Edition 9 with APS V3 cable AND a pair of UE-11’s?

Here are my questions:
One. Which headphone sounds closer to live?
Two. Do you listen to one or the other much more?
Three. If you had to buy only one which would be?


They basically cost the same amount of money. I’m just trying to decide. I’ll probably get both anyway, but if the ultrasound edition nine is far better than the UE – 11, I might have to reevaluate my choices.

 

[davidhunternyc]

Great question. I will be awaiting an answer also.

 

[Golden Ears]

I also wonder ...if you bought either of the above...and have a synergistic amp cable combo...

Buying UE-11's was so convenient and portable and good sounding that you gave up collecting full size cans?

Buying Ultrasone V3 Edition 9 had a presentation you liked so much you weren't willing to go back to IEM's?

I would think someone here has both at the same time for a comparison.

Some things cure upgraditis. Typically those things that cure it are super versatile too- ie they work in most situations beyond what you would imagine. They are also nearly timeless. Often they have few bells and whistles but get all the basics perfect and then some. They likely don't look flashy because the engineers were so focused on getting the essence of the essential core purpose of the item correct that they often look nice- but not exceptionally so- and certainly not BLING like.

A 1993-1996 Madd 158 racing Snowboard, a 1994 Mercedes E500, Entec SW-1 subwoofers, Arcteryx Stinger Jacket, Almar Eagle knife with mycarta handle, McIntosh MC4000M, Marmot Ultimate ski glove, Peter Verdone (Those are skateboard trucks) , all fit in this category. None look that unusual from the norm- but use one of these items properly in the environment it was designed for- and likely you'll never want to use anything else. You may even find that you enjoy using these in environments they were not designed for too- stretching the range of use is one of the fun things about the above items. But their core competences are undeniably the best in class. All of the above have lasting quality that may make them, in the long run, give you the most enjoyment many times over the life of a comparable product.

Maybe either one of headphones these fits this criteria..

If both of them do... which I hope..(Though my wallet doesn't) I will buy both.

 

[Golden Ears]

SO I guess waiting this long has answered the Question... nobody owns both.

I know Sovkiller likes Ultrasones but won't get UE-11's

But what about UE-11 owners???? have they decided that after spending $1100 on IEMS and going through the mold process..that they are done collecting? If so that is a good sign...

But several days and no reply..maybe I will ahve to post the same question on another website.. any suggestions as to which headphone site to ask next?

 

[thread]

I have both the UE11 and stock Ed9. I love them both, but I think that if I can get a fit on the customs that I'm really pleased with, then I will prefer them. The E9's cramp my ears a bit while the UE11 can seem to disappear better.

As for sound, they are both obviously amazing phones and I find their SQ to be comparable. I like having both at my disposal... but if I had to choose one, it would be the UE11.

Which one is closer to live? I'm not really sure, but I might have to give that one to the UE11. They have a sparkle in the high end that really gives things a remarkable life/realism. I'm not sure I get quite the same effect from the Editions.

 

[bdh]

Sorry for high-jacking the thread for a moment...

Hey thread, can you comment on the sound of the Stello vs. Predator. I find the Stello's bottom end fuller and more satisfactory than my unmodded-Benchmark in a lot of ways (except for definition and texture). I'm going to get the Benchmark modded in a month or so, but I'm interested in other DAC's also.


And just so I'm not totally high-jacking the thread...
Golden Ears, while I've never heard the UE11, and may love the sound (I can't stand to have things in my ears, so would never buy them), I find the Edition 9's to be very system revealing. Meaning, depending my source, amp, tubes, power configuration, ASIO settings, cables, etc., I can make it have almost any sound I please. I can have a flat, wall-of-sound Grado sound-stage, a large, wide sound-stage, dark highs, crisp-clear highs, a relaxed sound, a super-aggressive sound, lifeless, or the strongest PRAT on the planet. And almost anything in-between. I haven't heard anything as versatile. (But then I haven't heard the UE11's either.)

 

[Sovkiller]

I listened the UE11 in Canjam using the universal fits, and if the universal fits offer in any way something relatively close to what you will get while you customize them (and that must be an 100% step over, which IMO they will not be) I consider this question and the comparison a real joke...IMO there is no IEM that will sound like a full size headphone, let alone a very good one like the Edition 9...If you want a sample, just use a simple sound that will definitely sound fake on all the IEM I have heard till now, the hand claps, they sound so unbelievably fake that there is no way I could listen a live album or a song that includes them with IEM's...

Now after having experienced a few IEM's and a custom one, that now is on the way to the manufacturer for a refund, I can tell you that this comparison is simply a way out of reality, and as a funny thing, the prices are not...

 

[Golden Ears]

Perhaps there are different dynamics going on here. Let's say you have a really unusually shaped overly large ears -- and so over time your brain became accustomed to the unusual shape of your ears and because the edition nines are designed for the shape perhaps, a theoretical shape, of a theoretical ear... and perhaps if you have a normal shaped ear canal -- then the ultimate ears might sound better/worse? Better because the Edition 9's are out of scale for you- or worse because your outer ears play a larger part in localization (I know one audiophile that works for Alan Goodwins high end- that has the craziest ears you ever saw).

And conversely, if you have an unusually shaped inner ear canal -- it is possible the ultimate ears (with eq for a "typical ear" might be equalized very differently than what your ear requires.

Also if you were Vincent van Gogh, you might not hear that polar bear coming from the correct direction... so your directionality -- if your ears were really small and smooth -- you might rely and other sonic cues more for directionality... for instance your head has a particular impedance and acts as a filter (Cross feed uses this) , and depending on the direction sound comes from the attenuation might be different if something were say to pass through the hard part of the front of your skull and down through the back of the other side versus the opposite way -- because certain frequencies are attenuated differently.

Suffice it to say, in the ear monitors might not be for some people(wacky inner ears) , and the same thing goes for the edition nine(wacky outer ears) .

Sovkiller I appreciate your thoughts- I did read the other UE-11 thread. You might be one of those people who has different Ear canals. I personally never was able to listen to Ety's because I felt they lacked air- extended HF and sounded blanketed and recessed. I might just be in your camp...and it is an expensive $1100 bet. I just wish Ultimate ears could let you- say... "well no- they don't work for me" (in say.... a 2 week period) and then you could return them..

Ultimately- pun intended... if they had such a policy I would have bought from them years ago (when the UE-9 was out..and if I liked them I am sure I would already own a UE9 + UE10 + UE-11 (perhaps even more pairs due to loss and damage.... etc.)

So IMHO Ultimate Ears really should take another look at their marketing.
I also would have bought them if I could have paid EXTRA for "insurance" for loss damage, or willingness to return them (say a $150 policy) again if that was done... I am sure their sales of these IEM would at the very least double. It is one thing to know you can afford to buy a set of headphones of you like them (And sell them for a 20% loss if you don't) .... it is another thing to know that you may as well take a stack of Hundreds and flush them down the toilet if you don't and be left with a pair of headphones that you may feel sonically is only worth $150.

If you know you will like them- you pay the regular price. I figure- if say only 1 in 20 people who buy this "return insurance" are not happy with the UE-11's then the program actually is additional profit for Ultimate Ears. If say 1 out of 2 don't like them.... well it is a loss. And then they could discontinue the program.


Uh... Ultimate Ears.... I'll take a free pair of UE-11's for coming up with the idea.

You know, If I were a insurance underwriter..I just might take that risk.. in fact... I wonder what it would take to do such a thing.

It would be helpful if people gave a quick description to let us know if they're in years were unusually shaped -- or if they had very deep canals in their ears.

Darn, I know I'm going to end up buying both anyway.

 

[thread]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdh /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey thread, can you comment on the sound of the Stello vs. Predator. I find the Stello's bottom end fuller and more satisfactory than my unmodded-Benchmark in a lot of ways (except for definition and texture). I'm going to get the Benchmark modded in a month or so, but I'm interested in other DAC's also.

I've been very pleased with the Stello. The only other nice dacs I've spent any amount of time to really comment on are the HR MicroDAC (sold some time ago), the Stello, and the Predator. I can say that the Stello's sound really is a welcome improvement over that of the Predator. (One would hope this to be the case!) Of course this isn't to say the Predator is a slouch of a dac -- it suits me in a really satisfactory way every single weekday when I use it at my desk, coding websites.

It seems to me that IEMs being so close to your ear drum and so well isolated causes the UE11 to be, to me, even more ruthlessly revealing than the E9. When I used the Stello with the Predator as the amp via the UE11 on a couple occasions, it definitely was something of a jaw-dropping experience. The sparkly high end really gave a sense of realism and... resolution! I'd love to try some of these even higher-tier DACs some day.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller /img/forum/go_quote.gif I listened the UE11 in Canjam using the universal fits, and if the universal fits offer in any way something relatively close to what you will get while you customize them (and that must be an 100% step over, which IMO they will not be) I consider this question and the comparison a real joke...IMO there is no IEM that will sound like a full size headphone, let alone a very good one like the Edition 9...If you want a sample, just use a simple sound that will definitely sound fake on all the IEM I have heard till now, the hand claps, they sound so unbelievably fake that there is no way I could listen a live album or a song that includes them with IEM's... Now after having experienced a few IEM's and a custom one, that now is on the way to the manufacturer for a refund, I can tell you that this comparison is simply a way out of reality, and as a funny thing, the prices are not...

I've gotta disagree with you. I've heard and owned a ton of headphones over the past five years, and the UE11's can easily outclass nearly all sub-$300 full sized headphones. I'd take them over the hd650, k701, hd600, and others. However, I admit, that I don't think they can compare to a can like the k1000. Still, they come very close to sounding like a full can.

Haven't heard the edition 9's, and believe it or not I was looking at them both when I was deciding. Based off the Ultrasone's reviews I'd think that they would sound a bit fuller as they are known for sounding very 3d and open for a closed can.

Good Luck OP.

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by number1sixerfan /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've gotta disagree with you. I've heard and owned a ton of headphones over the past five years, and the UE11's can easily outclass nearly all sub-$300 full sized headphones. I'd take them over the hd650, k701, hd600, and others. However, I admit, that I don't think they can compare to a can like the k1000. Still, they come very close to sounding like a full can. Haven't heard the edition 9's, and believe it or not I was looking at them both when I was deciding. Based off the Ultrasone's reviews I'd think that they would sound a bit fuller as they are known for sounding very 3d and open for a closed can. Good Luck OP.

That must be the case, it seems that we both hear dramatically different, IMHE the uE11 are extremely overrated IEM, and part of that side of the mythology we have in audio, and IMO, mainly due to the extremely high price, as honestly if they do not improve day and night with the custom mold, and I say day and night, to the point of making them a completely different sounding headphone, sorry to tell you that not only a full size headphone will be better, I would even take a Portapro (which I own two pairs) over the UE11 any day soundwise...

here is the response curve to see if they can approach to any full size performance, this is a physical evidence, not an anecdotal experience, with that deep dramatical roll off at the 16KHz mark, it will have a real hard time trying to match the high freq extension of any full size IMO:

Ultimate Ears - Community - Ultimate Ears

 

[trickywombat]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Ears /img/forum/go_quote.gif SO I guess waiting this long has answered the Question... nobody owns both.

Darkkopi owns both. Maybe he'll see this thread and let us know what he thinks.

 

[mahatma andi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller /img/forum/go_quote.gif here is the response curve to see if they can approach to any full size performance, this is a physical evidence, not an anecdotal experience, with that deep dramatical roll off at the 16KHz mark, it will have a real hard time trying to match the high freq extension of any full size IMO: Ultimate Ears - Community - Ultimate Ears

Sorry Dude, but before trying to make the UE-11 bad by showing a frequency-diagram you should learn a little something about the basics auf audio because your argument is just wrong.

I won't make this long, i just want to clarify why the UE-11 have to have a massive roll off at 16khz as well as little amplitudes at about 4 and 8 khz.

You may have heard, that everyone hears differnetly because every ear is differently shaped. Frequencies are differently affected by the shape of the ear and therefore reach the auditory canal differently for every person. The thing is: you get used to it and you don't notice that you hear things differently.

It is the same with the auditory canal:
This "pipe" which has about a length of 3cm and a diameter of 0.7 cm has influence on the frequencies being amplified in the ear. For instance, there's a slight amplification at the frequencies important to speech (which makes sense - we can hear each other better). But there's also - because of the audible canal - a massive roll off at about 14-17 kHz and amplification for 4 and 8 kHz.

Because the IEM bypass most of the audible canal (because you push the IEM in the canal), it isn't affected by the audible canal but WE are used to this equalization (of the ear canal). Therefore the IEM must have a frequency response that compensates for the lack of ear-canal equalization.

That's just very short and simple explanation why the frequency response looks so strange but i hope i made it clear, that you hear the ED 9 also with a massive roll off at 16kHz because of your inner ear.

If your interested in the topic you might want to buy "the master handbook of acoustics" which is a easy understandable book about basics of acoustics.

lastly, please excuse my lack of english skill and i hope that it's understandable.

Mahatma

 

[number1sixerfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller /img/forum/go_quote.gif That must be the case, it seems that we both hear dramatically different, IMHE the uE11 are extremely overrated IEM, and part of that side of the mythology we have in audio, and IMO, mainly due to the extremely high price, as honestly if they do not improve day and night with the custom mold, and I say day and night, to the point of making them a completely different sounding headphone, sorry to tell you that not only a full size headphone will be better, I would even take a Portapro (which I own two pairs) over the UE11 any day soundwise...

Portapros? You must have heard a prototype or something, as something is definitely wrong with this statement. I agree that the UE-11's are arguably overpriced, but their sonic aspects are easily on par or better than most full sized headphones. The only thing that changes from them to full sized cans is that the sound gets "bigger".

It can't be that 99% of UE11 owners are wrong in the assesment that they are very good, especially for IEM's. However, I'll be the first to admit that I think the price I paid was too high. It is a luxury...I much rather have paid $500 for them.

 

[ctemkin]

I have come to the UE 11s vs. cans question from the other side. I am extremely pleased with the sound quality of the UE 11s, yet I wonder if there are cans out there which will sound significantly better. I have a set of balanced HD 600s, and while they sound to me fairly similar to the UE 11s, there is no question that the resolution of the UE 11s is better. There is also the comfort factor. The UE 11s essentially disappear; the HD 600s press on my head. Furthermore, I find that I tend to listen to the HD 600s at higher volume, which adds to the fatigue factor. Yet, because of upgraditis or just curiousity, I still wonder about cans.

So I, too, would be interested in any answers to the OP's questions.

One thing I should pass along to the OP is that, because of the UE 11s' relatively low impedance, pairing them with a tube amp is almost certainly asking for trouble. They perform much better with solid state amps. So if you are thinking of getting both UE 11s and Edition 9s, you should probably limit yourself to solid state amps.