[noparanoia]

Hi,
To cut a very long story short(er); a few months ago I had a new pc built. I can upload specs if anyone wants them. It has a cheap Realtek built in sound card and runs on an evaluation copy of windows 7. I used the optical out with my Ultra Micro DAC, but I noticed that the sound wasnt as good as with my older pc. I posted about it here but no one could agree on what the problem is, which is understandable I guess when you factor in how ridiculously complicated PC audio is.
I gave up on the problem and now the new PC never gets used anymore.

Anyhow, I was wondering if there is a fail safe method to get the absolute purest sound from any pc. I will willingly do whatever it takes
(even if it makes the computer essentially useless for every other purpose) so any suggestions would be appreciated.
I have looked at the M-audio USB transit and the M-audio sound cards.
I would buy either of these things if anyone could actually explain to me how they will help. People keep telling me that when it comes to optical, quality of components just doesnt matter. So wouldn't that sort of defeat the object of these.
I would also happily change operating systems, media players or any of my current software.
This is driving me nuts, any help will be greatly appreciated
Thanks

 

[noparanoia]

[size=xx-small](Bump)[/size]

 

[acold7dusta]

Start from the software end-what media player do you use?

Try foobar2000 with the WASAPI plugin (buffer length <750ms) (or ASIO plugin) and compare results

Your onboard optical might be littered with jitter causing poor results as well

 

[noparanoia]

Thanks for the reply. I was worried the thread was about to die. I have tried Foobar both with ASIO and WASAPI and couldn't really hear much difference. I would love to do some tests now but sadly I dont have my new PC with me right now. I dont remember it sounding any better using USB either. Would buying an ASIO soundcard allow me to bypass everything that could possibly effect the quality of the sound? By the way, am I the only one that finds PC audio sickeningly complicated?

 

[chronomitch]

I have been doing some research on this topic since I am trying to transition to using an external DAC rather than the internal one in my Asus STX sound card, but I am by no means an expert, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

From what I understand, this is the sound pathway for computers:

music player (Foobar2000, winamp) -> Windows mixer -> sound card drivers -> sound card hardware (digital out OR analog out via sound card's DAC)

Under normal conditions, any kind of sound, whether it's coming from a youtube video or Foobar2000, is sent to the Windows mixer where it is up sampled or down sampled to the format set for the device in the Windows sound control panel. Because all sounds get converted to the same format and mixed together, you can listen to sound from multiple programs at once in this mode (i.e. listening to music from Foobar2000 while playing COD4). However, the conversion and mixing process performed by the Windows mixer tends to decrease sound quality, especially in an audiophile setup.

When playing music in Foobar2000 via ASIO or exclusive WASAPI mode, the conversion and mixing process in the Windows mixer is essentially skipped (although volume adjustments are still applied). Instead of letting the Windows mixer handle sample rate conversion, audio data is sent directly to the sound card's drivers. This is why trying to play audio files with weird sampling rates (32khz, for example) in ASIO or exclusive WASAPI mode will cause an error because the sound card (and it's drivers) cannot handle such sampling rates. However, when playing audio files under the normal mode, the Windows mixer will convert the audio data to a format that can be used by your sound card (such as 44.1khz).

Overall, if you want to get as bit-perfect audio data to your DAC, you need to use ASIO or exclusive WASAPI in Foobar2000, turn the volume on the Windows mixer to 100% (so the mixer won't apply volume adjustments to the data), and set the sampling rate in the sound card's drivers to the same as what you are outputting from Foobar2000 (otherwise, the sound card may up sample the audio data before sending it to your DAC).

Now, as to your real problem: my only advice to you is to get a decently shielded sound card with a digital out on it. Regardless of whether you are using a digital or analog out, on-board sound is notorious for sounding like crap because their circuitry is unshielded and very close to all of the other circuits and interference-causing components. My guess is that this is causing jitter on your optical out.

 

[acold7dusta]

OP, since your micro DAC has a USB input, try using that. I found a pretty big difference from optical out of my sound card to straight USB

 

[noparanoia]

Thanks for the reply

Quote:

Originally Posted by chronomitch /img/forum/go_quote.gif From what I understand, this is the sound pathway for computers: music player (Foobar2000, winamp) -> Windows mixer -> sound card drivers -> sound card hardware (digital out OR analog out via sound card's DAC)

This is another thing that interests me. I know Realtek are not known for their audiophile credentials. Their hardware is cheap and low quailty so that could affect the sound. Is it possible that the drivers could be affecting the sound also? I certainly don't like the look of the sound effects control panel that comes with it, but I cant find any way to bypass it.

 

[lxxl]

On board also can get more interference because everything is attach to it. Your Power Supply can also be part of the problem, affecting the sound.

 

[chronomitch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by noparanoia /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is another thing that interests me. I know Realtek are not known for their audiophile credentials. Their hardware is cheap and low quailty so that could affect the sound. Is it possible that the drivers could be affecting the sound also? I certainly don't like the look of the sound effects control panel that comes with it, but I cant find any way to bypass it.

Anything is possible when it comes to drivers. However, Realtek drivers are fairly mature and are updated frequently, so I doubt they could be doing much (if any) harm. Check the driver control panel, though, and make sure any sound or EQ enhancements are turned off, since they can really screw with the sound.

You can't really bypass the drivers altogether because there needs to be an interface between the sound card and the OS. I still think the main problem affecting sound quality is the hardware.

 

[googleborg]

don't worry yourself about interference, if it harmed digital data so much your pc wouldn't work at all

analogue out is another issue however, but irrelevent. some people think optical is better than coax as coax is an electrical connection between pc and dac down which all the evil interference and earth loops will flow, i use a DIY coax as it's much more durable than an optical wire (cabling issues...), so use whatever you like - i personally have never noticed computer noise bar the cooling fan.

Or you could use USB, which is supposedly jitter free if buffered or something? but again, the realtek onboard is not 'low quality' when it comes to digital out via coax/optical, cheap yes, but it's a mature well supported technology that is cheap because of massive scale silicon fabrication and the vast resources of motherboard manufacturers. You certainly don't need another soundcard to output digital unless your onboard is broken.

personally i use digital out to a dac, all settings are at 16bit (dithering on in foobar, using wasapi) 44khz, same with drivers digital output. all effects are off, obviously.

if it sounds crap still, something must be broken i guess

 

[lxxl]

I personally have experienced noise from digital output, and strange enough it was a AuzenTech X-FI Prelude, which I thought it was a decent company for sound cards.

Its more of a deal for sound then video output, usually you will never see or feel the noise to video when in digital format.