[Hajime]

I have had around 20 systems in the past few months - no joking. The most dramatic changes happen when you change the source.

Ctn,

What you're saying makes no sense to me. I think of it this way: your source is what outputs the signal. If you have a bad signal at the get go, your amplification, no matter how good it is, is only going to amplify the signal it receives. Bad signal, bad signal being amplified. A great source will put out a great signal, and even a medium-quality amplifier will be able to amplify that great signal into the speakers.

 

[Ctn]

Hajime,

You dont have to agree with me.

The truth is, the difference between an average and a high end source isnt that great. The difference between an average amp and a high end amp is HUGE.

Following on from that. High end amplification of a slightly less than perfect signal will give a better result that average amplification of a perfect signal.

I have heard countless systems. Sure there is a difference with a high end cdp but its nothing spectacular. Magic happens isntantly when you bring in a good amp.

 

[Ctn]

Thats why you see me still having the cd6000ose. It's only an average cdp. Upgrading this just isnt as cost effective as getting my preamp/power amp.

 

[Hajime]

Ctn,

You are welcome to visit me and we can compare our sources on our systems.

 

[Ctn]

Hajime,

I wish I could afford a holiday to the states

Saving up for an apartment

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally posted by Hajime I have had around 20 systems in the past few months - no joking. The most dramatic changes happen when you change the source. Ctn, What you're saying makes no sense to me. I think of it this way: your source is what outputs the signal. If you have a bad signal at the get go, your amplification, no matter how good it is, is only going to amplify the signal it receives. Bad signal, bad signal being amplified. A great source will put out a great signal, and even a medium-quality amplifier will be able to amplify that great signal into the speakers.

Listen to Chris. I stated this before; I would rather listen to my worst amp with my best source than my best amp with my worst source, EVERYTIME.

 

[kentamcolin]

You can do a lot with $2K if you research and shop used. Example: I bought a pristine pair of Dahlquist DQM'9 speakers for $270 ($1299 when new). They are in perfect condition front to back and sound wonderful. They're 95db/watt efficient and don't go below 6 ohms so they are an easy load to drive (my 3 watt 2A3 amp does very well). I bought an Adcom GCD750 player (their best) for $600 ($1,400) new. Allow a couple hundred for cables and you still have over a grand for an amp. Don't underestimate the importance of amplification.

Unfortunately there is no simple answer. The number of speakers out there is mind boggling. I really like Moth Cicada's at $699. Upscale Audio has some PSB Image 7PT on special for $849. This is an amazing deal (like half price for NEW speakers)and another speaker that is easy on amps. Built in powered sub and the speaker Tuberoller listens to. Really, if I had the space I'd be getting a pair.

If your serious about this, are you planning on a seperate headphone system and speaker system? This is a pain IMO. You can sell off your HP gear, except the cans, and combine systems and spend a little more. I would recommend a good integrated amp to save on both components and IC's since you don't have an unlimited budget. Plus it's a cleaner solution which is important to me. There are amps that do well for both. I've been listening to a Moth prototype that's a 20 watt tube hybrid that sounds great with headphones and speakers. If it's built it will cost around $600. If I started over now I'd probably do this amp with the PSB's and a $500 CDP. Done for $2K-headphone amp, speaker amp, CDP, speakers!

A little story: My first experience with the Dahlquist speakers was 20 years ago. I was into rock and metal and wanted a new stereo. I had a good job and had some money to spend so I went and auditioned some gear. The DQM-9's sounded real good so I bought them. Since I wanted them loud I bought a 300 wpc Hafler amp (to drive 95db speakers, ouch!). I didn't know much about Hi-Fi and neither did the kid at the Hi-Fi store. I had a few bucks left over and needed something called a preamp so I just got a cheap one since, hell they just select the source and adjust volume. Those speakers only needed 20 or so watts to max out and they cried uncle more than once under the power of that Hafler. Fast forward 15 years and I stepped into a high end store looking for a system. They recommended one which would have me spending considerably more on amp and source than speakers. I walked out thinking they were crazy. Lots of money and a few years later (and much wiser) and I'm listening to the same Dahlquist speakers with a 3 watt tube amp costing twice what the speakers list for new and they never sounded better. I've heard $10K B&W Nautilus speakers demo'd with a $500 Rotel integrated amp (no kidding) and they sounded like crap. I've also heard the other end with $2K Totem's paired with $10K worth of amps and sounded wonderful. Moral of the story: System matching is CRITICAL. It almost doesn't matter what you spend, you can get great sound in almost any price range if your careful and make well informed decisions.

Thanks for reading my rambling

 

[lan]

Quote:

Originally posted by commando I live in New Zealand, so best buy isn't very accessible I tend to move countries occasionally, and it's basically too expensive to ship stuff like that around the world. If the gear was cheaper i'd just put it into storage, but at those prices, i'd probably not bother.

Oops didn't read your location sorry.

The nice thing about the XR25 is that it only weighs like 8lbs and
it's very small.

 

[Ctn]

Quote:

Originally posted by sacd lover Listen to Chris. I stated this before; I would rather listen to my worst amp with my best source than my best amp with my worst source, EVERYTIME.

If its the worse amp in one case and the worst source in the other case, both will sound bad.

I still stand by my observations that an average amp is worse than an average source. Garbage in - Garbage out would hold if all amps were created equally.

 

[Ctn]

Commando,

Take my advice, dont buy according to these peoples recommendations without first listening for yourself.

That's just stupid.

 

[commando]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ctn Take my advice, dont buy according to these peoples recommendations without first listening for yourself.

I think that's the best advice of the thread

Thanks for your input everyone, all I really wanted was a vauge idea of how much i'd have to spend to get sound comparable to my headphones. Seems that it'd be more than it's worth to me, so i'll probably end up with a little home stereo. I do most of my listening at work anyway, so that's no problem

 

[ooheadsoo]

You really ought to go listen to a few systems, commando. Try a pro audio shop if you want to hear fewer more clear choices.

 

[tomek]

I agree, go to a pro audio shop and listen to a bunch of stuff.

That's when you'll really get confused and overwhelmed...

The world of headphones is so much easier to get a grasp of with its 10 or so choices of 'very good' headphones.

Sometimes when I look at people recommending speakers it seems like I can read 30 threads without seeing one brand repeated.

 

[Howie]

Commando. You can certainly get good quality sound within your budget especially if you take the time and care to set up your system properly. A megabucks system setup improperly in a bad room will sound horrendous.

The advice of listening before you buy is certainly a good one. But that doesn't mean buying without first hearing is entirely a bad thing cause 1) most of the time you can't find the exact combination in a showroom 2) it is not your room 3) it might not be setup properly. 4) You won't have the dedicated powerlines and cables. If you do your research it can still be pretty safe. But if you have no experience at all and want to avoid changing your system frequently, try to at least identify what sound you're looking for. At your budget there will be some compromises. How low do you need your speakers to go etc.

With that said. I would also figure out whether upgrades are in the future. Do you see yourself having more money for upgrades or do you plan to live with this system for a while. Cause if you were to move into a larger room I would probably spend less on the speakers but if you were to have some money later I would probably try to get the speakers that won't be the limiting factor. Nobody knows what is going to happen in the future but it is not uncommon to plot down more than 50% on speakers and drive it with really poor gear and upgrade as you go along provided you're convinced that these dream speakers is what you are going to keep for a very long time.

I personally would figure out the speaker and amp combo first for a variety of reasons. First of all, it's hardest to get the speaker and amp combo right. Second of all, the two will impose the largest sonic signature so to speak. Third of all, you probably will get the most per dollar here.

Digital is the fastest moving of all technologies. There are many sources out there that won't be embarassed by something that cost double the price. More likely, the source will give a different sound. I would probably hold off on spending too much on the source until you can afford a really good one. Then again if you are going to share a source between your speakers and cables it might make sense to put down some good money for the source.

 

[rsaavedra]

Quote:

Originally posted by commando Seems that it'd be more than it's worth to me, so i'll probably end up with a little home stereo.

If you go for a little stereo, instead of a Sony I would go for one of the Denon mini's. I haven't listened to any of those, but they have been supertest award winners in several occasions at the face-offs done by some British magazines.