[sokolov91]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eobet /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ack... some people here claim that Grado have no bass (and that the 325i has too harsh treble), and others say that the D2000 has too much bass and muddle mids (like the Pro 900 then). Is there nothing in between? Or would that actually be the Shure SRH840? (Reference for myself: Posts claiming that full size phones including D2000 have smoother treble than the Triple.fi... interesting.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lex2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not to diverge too much but I do find the Grado SR225i to be somewhat "similar" to my Triple Fi 10 Pros.

Not to be a party pooper or offensive, but I have NO idea how grados could sound close to TF10. TF10 are fairly neutral and accurate... grados are not.

Not to mention OP is looking for an upgrade in terms of comfort, and I am guessing sound too. TF10 sound better than my SR325i did, and they are comfier to boot. SR225i is much lighter, and has less aggressive treble.. but I don't see Grado being what he is looking for :/.

I can't comment on how good the shures would be, but supposedly they are quite nice.

 

[eobet]

Hooooly ****, I just made a discovery that profoundly changes the way I listen with my Ultrasone Pro 900!

The character of the treble completely changes depending on where you position the cups over your ear! If you have them too far back, you get sibilance like you wouldn't believe, but if you push them forward, it actually goes away.

I had no idea you had to do this, but I guess it's a similar skill to learn as getting a good fit and seal using the Triple.fi. Now I may have to start all over an re-evaluate everything I've listened to so far. Ack again! Double ack!

EDIT: I need to go to bed, but...

Linda Ronstadt's 'Round Midnight - fixed the "s" and "sh" sounds.
Harry Connick Jr's Joe Slam and The Spaceship - added some punch to the drums.
Mantovani Orchestra's Elizabethan Serenade - better feeling of being somewhat in front of an orchestra (still not on the stage, as you are with the Triple.fi, though).
Puscifer's Queen B - also sounds very good, although the background breath's long fade is inaudible once the intro passes which doesn't happen on the Triple.fi.
Lazee's Trend Setter - hearing 3D effects on the bass that the Triple.fi actually lacks! (Heartless also sounds very good.)
Eric Gadd's Saint in the Parish - absolute lack of a 3D effect on the vocals in this one (which the Triple.fi immerses you in).

I'm too tired to test mids, but I'm extending the recommendation for these cans from trance to include hip-hop as well (well produced hip-hop, that is).

 

[morphon]

I wonder if that's a side-effect of "S-Logic" which is, if I recall, Ultrasone's method of porting the drivers. Keep experimenting, and keep us updated, especially once you get a chance to hear the new DAC.

 

[sokolov91]

The drivers are decentralized... So the position has greater effect than most, but what you are referring to is a "sweet spot" in headphone placement which is a widely regarded tweak. Try the kees mod too... the pro 900 are not for everyone but are indeed top notch headphones!

 

[Lex2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sokolov91 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not to be a party pooper or offensive, but I have NO idea how grados could sound close to TF10. TF10 are fairly neutral and accurate... grados are not.

TF10 are far from neutral; there is a pronounced bass hump at about 200 Hz coupled with a treble roll off at ca. 1Khz giving it a tonal signature not unlike that of a Senn albeit with a bass that to me sounds slightly boomy/hollow. If anything the Grado SR225i would give a somewhat flatter response compared to the TF10. In terms of soundstage, however, they are quite similar, but I would give the edge to the Grado for its brighter mids and tighter bass. If the OP wants something neutral perhaps he should be getting a K701 or an Ety ER4 instead.

 

[sokolov91]

If we wanna get all smarty pants then you should consider everything . The triplefi10 have much less air to move, and have dedicated bass armatures... The bass is very tight and regardless of that midbass bumb, that grados are far more guilty of, they produce pretty steady bass that is far more accurate and articulate from a grado. With grados you get pretty much one note (exaggeration). FR graph aside, grados are not considered neutral, and were never meant to anyways... they are strictly fun headphones.

Maybe the 225i and 325i are completely different beasts, but I would consider the TF10 to be the better phone, regardless of price and function -IEM vs Headphone. I also thing sound stage is notch or two better on the TF10. TF10 might not the THE MOST neutral or accurate IEM or headphone, but for what they are they are not nearly as bad as the competition.

On another note, the K70X are NOT neutral and all I have heard of the ER4 is that they are very basslight... basslight does not mean neutral, it means basslight. The K702 can't hold lower bass hz to save it's life so it's safe to say its not neutral, as much as people like to think it is. Wheter or not this is due it being open, I have no idea.

Not to mention according to the way humans hear, bass is supposedly in need of a slight bump to be perceived as equal. Also, IEMs will give pretty inconsistent sound and bass depending on the sleeves used, activities while using them etc etc.

So, as much as we are always warned to take FR graphs with a grain of salt, i think it is even safer to say this about IEMs.

 

[eobet]

Right, I'm allowed to return my Pro 900... but I don't think I will.

The reason? I'm not willing to trust that the Shure SRH840 or the Audio Technica ATH-AD700 will deliver a better sound experience than my Ultimate Ears Triple.fi 10 Pro. Call me prejudiced, but I just don't trust them because of the price point.

I emphasized better, because if it sounds similar, but not as good, then no matter the comfort, I think I'll always be longing to put the Triple.fi back on...

You see, to me, the Triple.fi are a pair of reference headphones. Not only do they (again, to me) produce extremely natural sound, but they put you right up on the stage or inside the recording booth even, with incredible definition and 3D. Searching for new music has become so much fun with these, as when I find a well produced or well recorded track, I often find my jaw dropping to the floor and the feeling is close to euphoria.

Since a pair of full size reference headphones cost three to five times what I can afford, I'd rather go with the Pro 900 will gives me a radically different listening experience instead. The extreme bass of them do make me chuckle from time to time, which I think is a feeling I will have to settle with now.

I will never, ever be able to buy any form of music based on the listening experience of the Pro 900, because it in no way reflects the way the track was recorded. I also find myself shut out of entire genres like rock and certain soul and funk, because they simply can't reproduce guitars or brass sections to the level of accuracy that the Triple.fi can (due to the poor mids).

The only alternative I see as viable would be the Denon D2000 with Jmoney earpads. This is based on the more even frequency curves on Rat's site, but what has me worried is that more people on this forum compare the Denon D7000 to the Ultrasone Pro 900, which I bet is better but far to expensive for me.

So do I dare to bet that the D2000 also will make me chuckle? Or will I end up in a place in between euphoria and a chuckle, which might not produce any feelings at all?

EDIT: For personal reference, found another very positive comment on the D2000, although I'm not sure as to the quality of the source:

Quote:

Its little brother, the Denon AH-D2000, is significantly quicker sounding than the Sennheiser or AH-D5000, and may be the most articulate of the lot; we expect these are the closed headphone of choice for media recording professionals and reference-sound afficionados

 

[Amarphael]

You know what makes me chuckle? That you have no problem whatsoever to directly compare these 2 together when the Pro900 is clearly underpowered as opposed to the extremly sensitive TF10's. Pro900's are not accurate? You do realize these are designed for monitoring? I agree thier timbre is not the most natural but they are no more coloured than TF10's are if you drive them appropriately and Kees mod them. Personaly i regret selling mine now, I liked them more than a modded D5000's and i enjoyed them no less and even more than my W5000's for rock, because they were more neutral and analytical but still remain very engaging, I espcially remember the amazing energy i felt thru them in Tool's Lateralus. How's that for a laugh?

 

[eobet]

I'm sorry, but I believe you are the first one ever on this forum who claim that the Pro 900 are "neutral".

Also, this seems to counter your "underpowered" comment:

Quote:

Originally Posted by T.R.A.N.C.E. /img/forum/go_quote.gif Don't bother spending on Dac/amp if you don't like the sound of the ultrasone, the amp/dac won't reduce the bass or lessen treble.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eobet /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also, I'm using my Mac Mini to listen now, and it's actually noticeably better than the Macbook Pro,

And when I sent in my return request, I got this:

Quote:

FYI you can't use some balanced armature earphones as a reference against some dynamic, full sized headphones, they are not supposed to sound anything like each other, in ear headphones like the UE cannot compete in levels of bass or the very top end

(Yes, btw... I'm leaving for vacation tomorrow so I took the plunge and decided to return the Pro 900, and will get a pair of D2000 with Jmoney earpads and Nuforce Icon uDAC... if nothing else, I thought it'd be interesting to compare. I never realized that the worlds of in-ear and full sized would be this different... I mean, natural sound reproduction can only sound one way, right... natural?)

 

[tdockweiler]

Just as a quick note. I have the Triple Fi 10 and the shure SRH-840. The sound is not any better with the Shure SRH-840 over the Triple Fi 10. It's about the same. I almost think it's like MAYBE 5% better, but it's hard to tell exactly how this is. Overall, to me they sound similar. That's what I really was looking for.

I got the SRH-840 because I was tired of sticking things in my ears. Yes, that's a stupid excuse to fork over $150 for a new pair of headphones!

If I had my box still i'd return the SRH-840 because they fall off my head. I wish I would have tried the D2000 from Denon. I guess I learned my lesson. I guess I don't regret buying the SRH-840 since the sound is so good. I think I mentioned it before, but they sound better then my old AKG 701 and Beyer DT-990. Not the Triple Fi's, but maybe close.

I'm curious, has anyone with the Triple Fi 10's upgraded to something better for under $400? If so, what was it? I doubt anything better then the TF10 can be found for under $400. Not that i've tried. I once tried to upgrade to the Sennheiser HD-650, but immediately returned them after the first week!

 

[Ra97oR]

I would not recommend K701 at all, the Triple Fi eats it for breakfast if you are looking for speed.

That being said I am rather happy with my current setup TF10 for outside, and AD1000PRM inside. But the AD1000PRM needs an amp to sound remotely nice.

Having owned and sold the SRH840, I would clearly say it is clearly inferior to the Triple Fi. I am also really not sure on the D2000, it sounded rather terrible to me when I audition them.

 

[Amarphael]

Quote:

Originally Posted by eobet /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm sorry, but I believe you are the first one ever on this forum who claim that the Pro 900 are "neutral".

Don't distort what i said, I compared them to the W5000 which is as far from netrality as you can name. Oh and i'm sorry myself, Just how many topics on the PRO900 you read before claiming "i'm the first person to claim they're neutral"? If you go over some threads on them you can find similiar comments, And i've no qualms saying that once kees modding them, And actually listening to them thru a proper amplifier as they should, they indeed turn out much more neutral than what you expireince currently.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eobet /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also, this seems to counter your "underpowered" comment:

Wha? It's not countering the fact that they ARE not efficient enough to be listend striaght from a laptop, As i myself checked when i had them, and thus not comparable to an IEM.

 

[eobet]

Sorry, I got a bit confused when reading the sentence with the neutral comment. I still don't agree about your color comparison comment, though (since I see the bass as a huuuuuuuuge colorization).

I'll check back here in two weeks time. By then, I should at least have gotten the stock D2000, and perhaps even some of the other goodies as well (have to order that from America which may take some time to arrive).

EDIT: Forgot to say, as a last "warning" regarding the Pro 900... the headband did hurt on the top of my head after a while (which was surprising, because the build quality seemed very good).

 

[tdockweiler]

Please let us know what you think of the D2000 when they come in. I really want to try these out and just can't buy them right now. Buying Four pairs of headphones in two months is a bit overkill for me!

 

[T.R.A.N.C.E.]

I'm going to be perfectly honest, you have to spend a crap load in headphones to equal the sound of good IEM's. The Denon's your getting should be more neutral and slightly less energetic than the pro 900 but far more comfortable However they will still not equal the TF10 in terms of pure sound quality I'm afraid.

If you really want a fullsize can that's better than the TF10 then get a Beyerdynamic T1