[bpinnell]

Okay, you people are killing me here. I consider myself an amateur audiophile. Budgetary resrictions have limited me to years of enjoyment with Event 20/20bas bi-amped monitors for recording/mixing/musical enjoyment. Headphones have always been an afterthought, and I have been ignorantly plodding along with a pair of Sony V6000's whenever I needed to use them (rarely). I have plunged headfirst into trying to get a pair of headphones that can equal my speakers (mind you they are good but not great by any measure). I have now tried the RS-1/RA-1 and the SA5000 through the RA-1 (and both out of my Event Gina soundcard headphone jack) all hooked up directly to a Pioneer DV-45A DVD-A/SACD player.

Lets just say that neither were my "sound". Similar to KenB who now enjoys Stax, I found the RS-1 to be uneven in freq. response, with too much emphasis on the lower midrange, at the expense of treble extension and air. On the other hand, I found the SA5000 to have great "air" but no substance, with the hollow sound that KenB mentioned. Neither of these phones come close to the more even response and depth of my speakers.

I have been thinking of trying the HD-650, but am worried that it might not be what I am looking for. Considering that KenB prefers the Stax 404/313 combo to the HD-650, and that the HD-650 with amp is about the same price, I am leaning towards the Stax combo unless someone can talk me out of it.

But then I read about the UE-10's and Sensaphonics canalphones, and how effortlessly they reproduce sound, etc. Compared to the Stax 404/313 combo, are these canalphones even comparable? Based on my impressions of the RS-1 and SA5000, I am better of with the Stax, the canalphones, or maybe just the HD-650 with good amp?

Thanks everyone.

 

[Otophonus]

I have been waiting for a while for someone to compare these bad boys...

 

[jjcha]

As between the HD650 + good amp or the Stax, I cannot venture an opinion. I've owned the HD650 but only listened briefly to the Omega 2 + 007t, which I enjoyed very much. I personally don't think there's much question as to the superiority of the Omega 2, but I'm sure there are plenty who would prefer the HD650 over that. But that's more to do with sonic preferences, and again, I only have the briefest experience with the Omega 2. I have no experience with the SR404/313.

As for whether the Sensaphonics compares to the HD650, I don't think it does at all. More than just airiness, the HD650 (+Zu) has a smoother/magical midrange and better top end extension/clarity. I'm sure there are a few Sensa fans who disagree and think they're just as good as the HD650, but I've never been one of them.

And I'm not even a fan of the HD650.

Best regards,

-Jason

 

[Andrea]

If it is of any help for you, my HD650 strongly reminds me of my (now gone) Acoustic energy AE1 MkII's for accuracy/neutrality ...and mostly a sheer sense of close resemblance of sonic character. The headphone twin is the more transparent and definitely the more extended though.

 

[chrisfromalbany]

Well I don't have time to explain my feelings on the UE-10s as compared to the SA5000. I would in short say the resolution on the SA5000 is unmatched. I find the bass in the UE-10s to be more to my liking. It has the same quick attack but the decay isn't as quick so to me there is more of a intense sound. But not so bloated sound like the A900s. The high notes on the SA5000 have more clarity and better in general. Even though the sa5000s are tad bright. UE-10 I think work better for rock music. Ue-10s still have good resolution but the sound is just more intense. It is hard though to compare the SA5000 to an eim headphone. Being that the isolation on the UE’s makes the characteristics of the headphones so different.

 

[iamdone]

I prefer the hd650/zu to both the ue10 and sensas, but I also prefer the RS-1 to the hd650/zu. In my setup the RS-1 has all the airiness of the hd650/zu but has a more agrressive sound that is better suited for my alt rock collection. The hd650/zu are a little more lush and work better for less aggressive music.

As for as the sensas and the ue10, neither are that great for rock. They both don't do electric guitars that well.

I'm currently in a toss up as to which one I like better. I was pretty much settled on the ue10 because of it's better highend but something about the bass has been bothering me. It just doesn't seem to have enough detail, texture, or punch in the lower end that I like. The sensas do this much better and just seem to have more substance in it's midrange. I only use these on my ipod (w/SR-71 amp), so I tried the treble boost and it seems to take care of the sensas highend. With this setup, I think I might prefer it to the ue10 with no eq.

I thought I liked the ue10 because they seem more dynamic but I think the mids suffer from this. Also, I think their tone may be slightly off. I was listening to some familar music, and the sensas (w/treble boost) seems to present it more to my liking. It could also be that I'm used to the RS-1 sound with it nice punchy bass and textured sound and the sensas come closer to this than the ue10.

I don't know if any of this will help or just confuse you more.

 

[bpinnell]

Thats interesting that you prefer the RS-1 to the HD-650. While I have not heard the HD-650 yet, the RS-1's to me have something in their response that makes them sound "squished" in the midrange. I think the bass slam is great, but compared to the SA5000, everything above the bass is muddy and not clear, compounded with occasional harshness in the upper midrange.

But unfortunately the SA5000 is lacking a little in bass which makes its high end sparkle seem even more top heavy. I hooked them up to my cheap Onkyo HT receiver and turned the bass up a bit and they sounded much fuller, but of course you lose some of the magic that a proper amp gives.

It seems like canalphones wouldn't do it for me, especially considering the resale issue. I think now I am mainly wondering whether the Stax 404/313 would be worth it over the SA5000 or HD-650.

Thanks for all of the responses!

 

[Don Quichotte]

For me, Stax 3030 (303/313) is really head and shoulders above HD600 for exquisite purity of tone, detail / focus, speed, soundstage and air as well as an overall smooth and effortless presentation. THERE ARE a few things the Senns do better, namely the sound is somewhat more coherent / integrated because they don't have a gap in the midbass like the Stax and, obviously, the impact is there and helps, unlike the 'stats. Also, the Senns have a rich and colorful sound some may prefer to Stax' almost-no-sound-of-their-own-at-all. I don't.
I have no experience with the HD650. Also, I have not heard the HD600 well amped and with aftermarket cables, but the diference is much too big to be due to this. In my opinion. No, I'm not disconsidering the importance of amps and cables.
System matching seems important especially for the Stax.

 

[pspivak]

Hi bpinnell,

Welcome to HeadFi, just give me your wallet.

I have been a Stax fan since 1976 when I bought and burnt-in my first pair of SRX MkIII's. I have had the 44's, Lambda Pro's, Gamma's, SR-404's and the SR-003's. I like the HD-650's with the Zu cable, the Sony 3000, the balanced Grado's, and the HD-600. All are good phones. Pick the one that you like best.

Currently I use the following:
Home: SR-404 with the SRD-P
Portable (hotel reference): SR-003 with the SRD-X
Portable (walk about, work, and gym): i-Pod shuffle and ER-6i

29 years with one brand is a long time and i really have no interest in switching unless something breaks and I need to get another Stax. I stay with the same brand because I like the way it sounds from song to song. No two recordings really sound the same to me on the Stax. To me this means that I am probably hearing the recording rather than the equipment (a clear picture). Some around here will agree with me, some will not.

When you buy at this level it truly is a matter of personal taste. Oh yeah, and for the record the Stax do have bass (and not just one note bass either).

 

[The Actual]

I recently purchased the SRM313 and SR404 and really like them.

While doing research I did a lot of listening to the HD650s, SA5000s, the 3030 system, and what I have now. While I did like the SA5000s from the CEC HD53 and an SACD player alot more than it sounds like you do, the Stax won out over the 650s easily. I felt that the only area in which I really preferred the Sennheisers was for bass impact and sometimes I preferred the mids.

In conclusion, I have no regrets about getting the Stax, but I am not a fan of the 650s so take that into account. Good luck.