[Battou62]

Unrecoverable playback error: Unsupported stream format: 44100 Hz / 16-bit / 2 channels
 
This is what I see when I set the output mode to Wasapi. I do not see where to change the output mode using the Entertainment Center or the audio control panel. I need to know how you are selecting the 44.1 khz output for the dac.
 
 

 

[Battou62]

Oops double post

 

[Roller]

Oh wait, the Mode Changer is for desktop versions only, totally forgot about that

Given that it's working on Entertainment Mode, sample rate and bit depth can only be changed through Windows control panel. With the current reinstall, you still only have 16/48 to 24/96? Oh, and does it support 88.2KHz? I ask, because it could be an alternative format for the time being, until there's further development on the 44.1KHz issue, and 88.2KHz specifically due to minimizing quantization errors, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Battou62]

Only 16/48 16/96 24/48 24/96 are available as output modes.

 

[Roller]

Then I think you'll have to resample for the time being

But in your case, I'd recommend on doing resampling of content with original sample rates of 44.1<->88.2 and 48<->96. But then again, resampling is one of those controversial subjects.

 

[Mad Max]

Yeah, resampling reduces fidelity a bit and colors the sound.  =\

 

[Roller]

Quote:

Yeah, resampling reduces fidelity a bit and colors the sound.  =\

Upsampling or downsampling? There are a bit more variables to be taken in account there. Ideal ratios based on original source formats, among other things.

 

[windcar]

 
Quote:

I have another small follow up on this unit. I have been firing emails at Creative to get more information on this dac. The only thing that bothers me about this unit is the lack of proper driver support. This dac only supports 16-48, 16-96, 24-48, and 24-96 natively. I hooked up my old Onkyo 502 receiver to my computer last night to do some listening. I ran digital coax to the Onkyo, fired up Foobar with the Wasapi plugin and did listening tests. My music files were flac. With the receiver I was able to achieve bit perfect playback using Foobar and Wasapi with no problems. I then switched over to the X-fi HD USB and listened to the same flac files. Even though I can not use Wasapi with the Creative dac because of lack of driver support, I was easily able to tell that the Creative Dac sounded much better than my receiver. The improved clarity of the Creative dac was very apparent, even though I had to use DirectSound. I'm sure this is really no surprise to many people here. The X-fi HD USB sounds great, and has plenty of power. I think the only thing keeping the Creative dac from being a wonderful product is the driver support. I know the fact you can't achieve bit perfect playback with this dac is a big turn off to many people. I have notified Creative of this problem and I received an email saying that they actually forwarded the recommendation to the driver team, but it wasnt a guarantee that 44.1 Khz support would be added. I really like the unit, but the decision to not support 44.1 playback really confuses me on this one.

I am afraid that no driver can make it support 44.1 playback. I suspect there isn't a 44.1kHz crystal in that DAC, only a crystal that supports multiple of 48kHz. Creative definitely dropped the ball on this one. It is still a great gaming card, not so much an audiophile one. You may want to check out E-MU 0204 card which has the best spec I have ever seen.
 

 

[Roller]

Quote:

I am afraid that no driver can make it support 44.1 playback. I suspect there isn't a 44.1kHz crystal in that DAC, only a crystal that supports multiple of 48kHz. Creative definitely dropped the ball on this one. It is still a great gaming card, not so much an audiophile one. You may want to check out E-MU 0204 card which has the best spec I have ever seen.
 

What are you basing yourself on to state that the DAC can't do 44.1KHz? Drivers do limit the formats that DACs can output, there are a few cases of that.

 

[windcar]

Quote:

What are you basing yourself on to state that the DAC can't do 44.1KHz? Drivers do limit the formats that DACs can output, there are a few cases of that.

I am not stating that the DAC chip cannot supports 44.1. The chip Creative is using is the same as the E-MU 0204  can but there is no 44.1 crystal in that unit therefore does not support 44.1 playback. E-MU 0204 includes a crystal that can sync at 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96 and 192Khz.
 

 

[Roller]

Quote:

I am not stating that the DAC chip cannot supports 44.1. The chip Creative is using is the same as the E-MU 0204  can but there is no 44.1 crystal in that unit therefore does not support 44.1 playback. E-MU 0204 includes a crystal that can sync at 44.1, 48, 88.2, 96 and 192Khz.
 

 
Either I didn't read you right, or you didn't express yourself correctly. If Creative is using the same chip on both X-Fi HD USB and on E-MU 0204, and 0204 can sync from 44.1 to 192KHz, how exactly does that make the X-Fi HD USB not being able to output 44.1, or 192KHz for that matter?

 

[Mad Max]

It's not the DAC, but the USB or SPDIF receiver chip.
There are DACs that do up to 24/192, but then they only have, for example, a BB/TI 2704 chip for receiver, thus that DAC will only take 16/44.1 or 16/48.  Or a DIR9001 and only take up to 24/96.

 

[windcar]

Quote:

 
Either I didn't read you right, or you didn't express yourself correctly. If Creative is using the same chip on both X-Fi HD USB and on E-MU 0204, and 0204 can sync from 44.1 to 192KHz, how exactly does that make the X-Fi HD USB not being able to output 44.1, or 192KHz for that matter?

Basic Engineering knowledge. Most microchip require a crystal oscillator to provide stable clock to the chip. Some Microchip has an internal clock of its own but it will not be very accurate, and most devices relies on an external crystal to provide the clock signal. There is at least 1 crystal in your mobile phone and modem.
Same for audio DAC, it relies on an external crystal to provide its clock source, so it will determine if the device can supports native 44.1 playback or it require to resampling to the frequency it supports. Most crystal oscillators only supports a multiple of 1 frequency (e.g. 20hkz, 2x20khz, 3x20khz etc).
 

 

[Roller]

Quote:

Basic Engineering knowledge. Most microchip require a crystal oscillator to provide stable clock to the chip. Some Microchip has an internal clock of its own but it will not be very accurate, and most devices relies on an external crystal to provide the clock signal. There is at least 1 crystal in your mobile phone and modem.
Same for audio DAC, it relies on an external crystal to provide its clock source, so it will determine if the device can supports native 44.1 playback or it require to resampling to the frequency it supports. Most crystal oscillators only supports a multiple of 1 frequency (e.g. 20hkz, 2x20khz, 3x20khz etc).
 

That's what I've been saying regarding the resampling issue. But it does make more sense that a crystal with a minimum of 48KHz was used. What really made no sense was what you wrote before, you must have had a typo or something because I just didn't understand your sentence at all. Thing is, how do you know exactly that there is no crystal supporting 44.1KHz? Factual info?

 

[Mad Max]

 
Quote:

Upsampling or downsampling? There are a bit more variables to be taken in account there. Ideal ratios based on original source formats, among other things.

They're both bad to my ears.
 
 
I mean specifically, SoX, PPHS, SRC, SSRC, etc., resamplers are all awful.  They ruin the sound.  I don't have the best ears or rig ever, but the difference is too much to ignore.