Tube or SS for classical music?
Apr 12, 2012 at 2:16 PM Post #16 of 34


Quote:
Yes.
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To clarify the cheeky response above, the idea is they both do good things for the genre.  SS is certainly more uncolored by nature most of the time, but the warmer tubes can also do wonders for the genre.   Personally I have a hybrid (Lyr) noted as a neutral amp, and I love it for classical (and pretty much everything else.)  I happen to prefer it to all the SS amps I've used, but that's just preference.
 
Three things regarding tubes and classical: Modern wisdom says SS gives you exactly whats on the recording unaltered and thus is better for classical.  In the days when everyone listened to classical on AM radio (early-mid 20th century), tubes were what was around.  Tubes add harmonic distortion.  So do the walls of concert halls.  Coincidence?
 
Ultimately pair based on what your cans prefer more than "adding tube sound or not adding tube sound." If you have high impedance high sensitivity cans, tubes will do a lot for you.  If you have low impedance, low sensitivity cans, there's less of a significant effect, and depending on the tube amp and just how low impedance low sensitivity your cans are, tubes (non-hybrid) may not even power them well. 
 
Apr 12, 2012 at 2:39 PM Post #17 of 34
You already got yourself a nice headset and amp, what do you want more soundwise? I have a very similar amp as yours, and it is very detailed sounding, on the SS side with the magic of tubes. The 337 is not a warmey tubey amp like the Leben X300 for example. 337 is particulary dynamic and flat. What tube are you using?
 
Apr 13, 2012 at 11:31 AM Post #19 of 34
Maybe you should buy a solid state if that's really what you want, you can then easily compare with your tube amp.
My telefunken EF800 with stock 6N5P chinese tube is way more detailed and transparent than the 6N5P with the stock 6*4 tubes. It's weird you think they are lean.
What are you looking for with SS? For me the 339/337 are perfect for headphones sound reproduction and I too listen to classical music. I use it with HD650, it's great..
 
Apr 13, 2012 at 12:02 PM Post #20 of 34
Get a hybrid amp.  I have the Cavalli Liquid Fire and listen to a bit of classical and it is incredible!
 
Apr 13, 2012 at 2:34 PM Post #21 of 34
I find most hybrid amplifiers sound closer to their SS counterparts instead of the other direction. My experience is limited to the SSMH, Millet Hybrid, Schiit Lyr, EHHA (both versions) and the Apex Peak/Volcano though. 
 
Apr 13, 2012 at 8:03 PM Post #23 of 34
Oh yeah sorry 337 and 339 are not the same that's right! My bad
6*4 are 6SJ7 in metal cap from Ruskov land. They are warm and darkey! Lacking in detail compared to EF800 but very OK for easy listenning and ear friendly.
Anyway there are a lot of tube rolling option for our amps, I thought EF80 were more prone to noise than EF800 but that's just an hypothesys. I am waiting for EF80 with mesh grid so I will compare them with Telefunken EF800. Am also waiting for delivery of RFT EF860 which are said to be sub for EF800 with gold pins, but I also read they are only EF80 sub... I went crazy as I am also waiting for 6SJ7WGT JAN philips to be delivered, they are said to be very good (less than the illusive 6SJ7WGT Tungsol mesh plates...)
 
It is said but you might know that the 6AS7G tube is inferior to the 5998 pricey tube, 5998 is said to give more air around instrument, better bass control than RCA 6AS7G, better imaging, less warmness tubey feel, and more control which is the key in big orchestral fortissimo!
Personnally I don't have that much money to put in a rare tube, but when I see those poor audiophile with 300B power tube amps spending 1000€ on a pair the 5998 seems like a bargain, and if funds allow you should try it for classical, it might be your ticket.
 
Apr 15, 2012 at 11:17 PM Post #24 of 34
I listen exclusively to classical music. I've tried SS and tube amps. Tube amps are the way to go for classical. And not just tubes but a particular type of circuit: what you really ought to want is single-ended triode (not push pull) and, if possible, a plate-follower or grounded-cathode output rather than a cathode-follower output. And it's best if global negative feedback is avoided. You can search head-fi and the web for descriptions and discussions of these types of tube headphone amp.
 
The reason for single-ended is that you get a preponderance of even rather than odd harmonics added to the signal. These are a pleasure on the ears. The issue of global negative feedback is debated, but most single-ended tube amps now produced, as far as I'm aware, do not use global negative feedback. So there is more or less a consensus about the matter. The issue of output topology is also debated. Most single-ended tube headphone amps now produced use a cathode-follower output. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, since this produces a more controlled low end. But it also tends to sound -- and this is a metaphor -- less 'open' or less 'alive' or less 'real' in the midrange. And the midrange is where most of the magic lies in classical music. The controlled low end is important for listening to genres other than classical. Rock enthusiasts don't want to listen to an unauthoritative bass drum sound that is blurred. They want it crisp. But for classical music, which has no repetitive bass beat, this isn't a problem and is often a plus even for the low end, which will sound full.
 
I've got both a DV336 and an ASL MG Head OTL Mark II. The MG Head is what I mostly listen to. And it has a grounded cathode output. I've found that the input tube of choice -- the one that gives the most full-bodied presentation in lows and mids but does not lose sparkle in the highs -- is the flying or winged-C 12ax7. I say that from experience -- I've tried many, many input tubes, including the much-coveted and costly Bugle Boy.
 
With this setup and HD600s you can't go wrong. Listening to Inbal's Mahler cycle on Denon (which is recorded binaurally), Berglund's Sibelius cycle with the Chamber Orchestra of Europe, Boulez's Sur Incises, or Ensemble Organum's Machaut mass is heaven on this setup.
 
Apr 16, 2012 at 7:51 AM Post #25 of 34
I think the larger question is whether to go to PP- or SET-based system with classical, especially if you listen to "big" symphonic music. 
 
Apr 16, 2012 at 3:52 PM Post #26 of 34
What it really comes down to with all this is do you want to listen to your music or do you want to listen to your amp?
 
Are you into high fidelity audio or are you into the sound of whatever gear you happen to fancy/own?
 
Does classical music (or really any music) need to be altered to sound better?
 
Am I the only one that thinks it's ridiculous to covet amps that can't faithfully reproduce the sound they're fed?
 
Apr 16, 2012 at 4:37 PM Post #27 of 34


Quote:
Originally Posted by cws5 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
And the midrange is where most of the magic lies in classical music. The controlled low end is important for listening to genres other than classical. Rock enthusiasts don't want to listen to an unauthoritative bass drum sound that is blurred. They want it crisp. But for classical music, which has no repetitive bass beat, this isn't a problem and is often a plus even for the low end, which will sound full.

 
To play devil's advocate, I'd argue that you couldn't be more incorrect regarding authoritative bass and classical.  In fact I'd argue that a solid low-end is the crux of what makes the difference between added realism and not, in classical especially.  You owe the cellists, bassists, timpanists, and kettle drummers of the world a big apology for your statements
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I agree the midrange is where a lot of the magic lies, but that solid low-end, venue dependent of course, provided by the chorus of bass, cello and drum can go quite low, and adds a lot of the meat to classical.  It's that visceral impact that makes Holst.  It's the low rumble that makes that hauntingly heavy sound of Berlioz, and the careful low-reaching melodic bass runs are what make Tchaikovsky.  The impact of the bass notes are what adds the grip to any cello sonata.  And yes, in person, these instruments all can have quite the rumble. 
 
Now, to come back to your side for a moment, I also agree, there are two ways to hear classical, both in speakers and in person and it varies by orchestra and concert hall.  I love the sound of my K702 for example with classical.  That even and neutral tone is fantastic.  HD600 is in a similar mode.  It's that light, airy, non-bass-laiden detailed sound of an orchestra up close. 
 
However I've recently learned to appreciate, even more, the sound of my new HE-400's for classical.  The mids are neutral, highly detailed, and the pushed, clean bass gives that authentic emotional pull of the darker instruments in a cavernous hall from up in the balconies.  Both are valid, but bass impact, if accompanied by detail and texture, is no less critical, if not more critical for classical if you're not going for the up-close sound. 
 
That doesn't involve amplifiers at all.  But it's a useful item to consider for classical since you mentioned it.  And no, I'm not ragging on you
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Quote:
What it really comes down to with all this is do you want to listen to your music or do you want to listen to your amp?
 
Are you into high fidelity audio or are you into the sound of whatever gear you happen to fancy/own?
 
Does classical music (or really any music) need to be altered to sound better?
 
Am I the only one that thinks it's ridiculous to covet amps that can't faithfully reproduce the sound they're fed?


An argument I often make is that when you hear live music the venue itself alters and colors the sound in much the same way as colored playback equipment.  The tone of the same orchestra will be completely different in their native hall, a guest hall, an outdoor ampitheater, and again at front row, mid seating, or balcony seating.  I don't see sound coloration as "altering the recorded sound" so much as "choosing the venue and seats in which I want to hear them play."
 
 
 
Apr 17, 2012 at 12:04 AM Post #28 of 34

 
Quote:
What it really comes down to with all this is do you want to listen to your music or do you want to listen to your amp?
 
Are you into high fidelity audio or are you into the sound of whatever gear you happen to fancy/own?
 
Does classical music (or really any music) need to be altered to sound better?
 
 


You'd be surprised that even musicians get crazy too with the types of wood that they feel should be used or what brands for their cello and the kinds of strings as well. There is so much detail involved in the madness of creating music. Audiophiles are actually sane compared to many musicians. 
 
Music is insanity and we are insane too and there definitely is that crazy side to the details. Go to the guitar forums where guitarists discuss their gear and it may not be for the faint of heart brotha.
 
Apr 17, 2012 at 12:32 AM Post #29 of 34

As someone who attends the Met Opera and NY Phil. on a regular basis, but also enjoys swapping audio equipment, I can't agree with this statement more.  
Quote:
I don't see sound coloration as "altering the recorded sound" so much as "choosing the venue and seats in which I want to hear them play."
 
 



 
 
Apr 17, 2012 at 10:38 AM Post #30 of 34
Master's degree in musicology here, I listen to classical on a regular basis and to really enjoy it you've got to get yourself a headphone tube amp! Solid state do color the sound in harshness not in frequency alteration! Saying solid state is more true than tube is not really true.
Enough already and go listen to some tube amps! And compare for yourself, it's the only way..
 

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