[jlingo]

I finally have a chance to compare between EarMax Pro Tube and Grace M902 Solid State.
Bottomline, it's really very hard for me to choose between Earmax Pro and M902. Some songs I prefer EarMax Pro, others I prefer M902. It's simply crazy I think. Especially when I'm selecting shuffle in the computer I tend to keep switching amps, depends on the type of song playing.

Using my GS-1000, this is what I find:
M902:
Amazing Transient
Amazing Decay,
Sparkling,
Twangy exciting guitar,
Amaizing blackness,
CLEAN,
Big Soundstage
Sense of Openess
Amazing Timbre
Great Separation,
Great Detail,

EarMax Pro:
Lush,
Sweet,
Laid Back,
Highly emotional,
Smaller Soundstage,
less Sparkling,
Less Clarity,
Less Detailed,
no Twangy exciting guitar
Warm.


I don't hear any sibilance with GS-1000 from both amps.
Also with m902, it's very rich and detailed that I often play it at a very low volume. With Earmax Pro I have to turn up the volume to be satisfied, perhaps I'm trying to bring up more details?

I can't really decide which one I prefer anymore.

 

[drarthurwells]

All SS has an overly lean tone body.

From your description the Ear Max is too euphonic - too liquid, smooth, and too rich in tone body, but sacrifices detail, sharp 3-D images surounded by empty space, inner detail, and resolution of nuances in timbre.

You need a tube amp with the right tubes to get the best of solid state without its problem of an overly lean tone body.

Get a Doge 6210 for less than $400 with a set of new tubes for $35 that will give you this, and do so for far less money than you would spend otherwise.

 

[jlingo]

You are so right about that though. I just pulled out my 6922 electro harmonix again, making EMP at least closer to the Solid State Sounds, although it's still not quite like m902 yet. I still miss the sparkling airy high and very well extended cymbals of m902.

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by drarthurwells /img/forum/go_quote.gif All SS has an overly lean tone body.

Can you offer any proof of this all inclusive claim?

 

[drarthurwells]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlingo /img/forum/go_quote.gif You are so right about that though. I just pulled out my 6922 electro harmonix again, making EMP at least closer to the Solid State Sounds, although it's still not quite like m902 yet. I still miss the sparkling airy high and very well extended cymbals of m902.

Might try a Telsa 6922s - not the newer one sbut the old ones.

Philips USA JAN 6922 is also less euphonic than most.

The combo is very important - must match the right input tube to your output drivers. What type of input tube does the EMP use?

 

[drarthurwells]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover /img/forum/go_quote.gif Can you offer any proof of this all inclusive claim?

I have heard the best SS amps. I like Pass labs products. All have some leanness to the tone.

No SS can give me the tone body fullness and richness of the right tubes.

Why do you think so many people prefer tubes to solid state, given they have had much experience with both?

The tube tone is capable of a certain wholeness, organic quality, or richness of timbre (patina or glow) that you just can't get with any solid state amp.

With digital, a tube somewhere is essential for me. With analog, it is not as necessary though still better for me.

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by drarthurwells /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have heard the best SS amps. I like Pass labs products. All have some leanness to the tone. No SS can give me the tone body fullness and richness of the right tubes. Why do you think so many people prefer tubes to solid state, given they have had much experience with both? The tube tone is capable of a certain wholeness, organic quality, or richness of timbre (patina or glow) that you just can't get with any solid state amp. With digital, a tube somewhere is essential for me. With analog, it is not as necessary though still better for me.

That is an opinion not proof.

Since we are talkiing about headamps, not power amps, what "best" SS headamps have you heard?

 

[drarthurwells]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover /img/forum/go_quote.gif That is an opinion not proof.

So, what can you prove about audio?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sacd lover /img/forum/go_quote.gif Since we are talkiing about headamps, not power amps, what "best" SS headamps have you heard?

We are talking about SS versus tube sound. I have owned a number of different SS and tube amps, both for speakers and HPs. The more recent ones are listed in my signature. My first SS amp was an Lafeyette back in the late 50s when I was a pre-teen, and my first tube preamp and amps were Dynaco kits in the early 60s.

I have found that solid state has a characteristic sound that does not change in going to HP amps from speaker amps.

Do you hear a difference between these sounds? Do you think SS amps and tube amps sound the same? Do you think SS speaker (or tube) amps sound different from SS (or tube) HP amps?

 

[hciman77]

Quote:

Originally Posted by drarthurwells /img/forum/go_quote.gif So, what can you prove about audio?

Prove is a problematical term especially in audio, however one can find evidence to support a hypothesis if one works at it critically.

Now in this case a set of blind tests pitting tube amps vs SS amps would be a good way to go as long as the amps are driven below clipping.

John Atkinson himself was unable to discern the difference between a tube amp and a SS amp. (http://www.enjoythemusic.com/hifi200...onkrueger.html) Atkinson later bought the SS amp and came to hate it, but that is another story.

 

[kramer5150]

I hear you brother....
Heres the conclusion I have come too: If you want a fast, detailed, speedy tube amp that has the tube warmth/groove without sacrificing resolution... expect to pay a considerable amount. If you want a SS amp that is warm and groovy-fun, without congesting or rolling off the high end... expect to pay considerably again.

So... my solution thus far has been a millet hybrid, earmax, and larocco PPA. If I sold all 3 I could probably get around $500 for them all, and put that $$$ into a used PPX3. I ponder over this regularly, but there are sonic qualities I like about all 3, and I DO like the snappy-speedy sound of the PPA.

?????

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by drarthurwells /img/forum/go_quote.gif We are talking about SS versus tube sound. I have owned a number of different SS and tube amps, both for speakers and HPs. The more recent ones are listed in my signature. My first SS amp was an Lafeyette back in the late 50s when I was a pre-teen, and my first tube preamp and amps were Dynaco kits in the early 60s.

Neither your signature nor the experience you list would seem to justify the categorical statement that "all" SS amps have an overly lean tone body. It would seem that the most that you could say was that all of the SS amps you have heard have had an overly lean tone body (to your ear or in your opinion, of course, but I think we could presume that's what you meant). In any event, I could think of, and I'm sure others could also, of some very fine SS headphone amps of recent vintage that you probably don't have experience with, at least based on what you list (or don't list).

P.S. I am a tube fan as well, but it just really bothers me when people make such broad statements on this forum -- even if they mirror my experience -- as other folks my have different experiences.

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hciman77 /img/forum/go_quote.gif John Atkinson himself was unable to discern the difference between a tube amp and a SS amp. (http://www.enjoythemusic.com/hifi200...onkrueger.html) Atkinson later bought the SS amp and came to hate it, but that is another story.

I wouldn't say it's "another story," I said it's the not-so-surprising and very important "rest of the story," as Paul Harvey would say.

 

[edisonwu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlingo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't hear any sibilance with GS-1000 from both amps. Also with m902, it's very rich and detailed that I often play it at a very low volume. With Earmax Pro I have to turn up the volume to be satisfied, perhaps I'm trying to bring up more details?

Oh, Jeffri, you listen really loud to me. With DAC1 and most CDPs, I normally listen HD600 (high impedance) at turning up the EMP's volume knob to between 7.5-9.5 clock (with 7 is mute). With DA10 at volume 38 (45-48 is at the same output level as DAC1), I have never turned up the volume knob beyond 11. Congregation on your new arrivals. Enjoy~

 

[hciman77]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS /img/forum/go_quote.gif I wouldn't say it's "another story," I said it's the not-so-surprising and very important "rest of the story," as Paul Harvey would say.

Well, I would rather not get into a heavy duty Blind testing debate just now, immense fun though they are, my point obliquely made was that if such differences were universal that any decent blind test with decent supporting kit, especially using a trained audio professional would pick these up effortlessly, such is apparently not always the case. Thus Art's "all" may be regarded as possibly a case of over generalization.

That John Atkinson couldnt live with the SS amp long term is open to several interpretations and has been covered to death by various other commentators.

If you read coverage of the Atkinson V Kruger "Great debate" it is fascinating to see how differently the debate is interpreted by the Objectivist and Subjectivist camps, the debate itself is quite interesting.

http://stereophile.com/news/050905debate/

 

[edisonwu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by drarthurwells /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have heard the best SS amps. I like Pass labs products. All have some leanness to the tone. No SS can give me the tone body fullness and richness of the right tubes. Why do you think so many people prefer tubes to solid state, given they have had much experience with both? The tube tone is capable of a certain wholeness, organic quality, or richness of timbre (patina or glow) that you just can't get with any solid state amp. With digital, a tube somewhere is essential for me. With analog, it is not as necessary though still better for me.

Gernally tube amps do sound tuby while SS amps tend to be more clear and detailed. However people should always compare apple to apple. If two machines are not at the same grade, gernally the well made tube amp at higher grade should sound completely (everything) superior than a SS amp at a lower grade.