[Chu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaZa /img/forum/go_quote.gif I heard an analogy, that tubes distortion/clipping is sort of "rounded" where SS has squared distortion/clipping (digital and sharp). Even if putting two amps, one tube and one SS that both has flat frequency response, tube one sounds more natural and easier to ears even if there is no difference in frequency response. Dont know if there is any truth in it, but I do enjoy the sound of tube amps.

My background is in digital where we pretend every circuit is perfect until the analogue folks yell at us, but my understanding is that digital distortion essentially is hard clipping of the wave form, while tubes preserve the integral of the waveform.

I've always wondered if a lot of the "warmth" is taking all the gunk that we can't hear and beyond its ability to reproduce accurately, and instead of clipping it, injects it back into the audible spectrum along with whatever leakage exists.

 

[PiccoloNamek]

Quote:

Originally Posted by koike /img/forum/go_quote.gif hey any settings to share?

Right now I'm still experimenting, but I have the drive at 1.5db, tube at 0.60, and Bias at 80%. What's cool is if you load up a sine wave and play with the settings while listening. You can hear the distortion coming in! You can see it too, if you have an app like Cool Edit or Audacity that has a frequency analyzer.

 

[jonnywolfet]

cmon guys, everyone knows that music sounds better when your amp its glowing so prettily...

mmmmmm warm tubey goodness. you gotta love it

 

[Murugesh]

I have installed the plugin and could clearly notice the difference it makes. I understand the 'Tube' knob is meant to increase/decrease warmth but I can't hear any difference in sound when I turn 'Bias' knob. What is expected to change when I turn 'Bias' knob? I'm a noob to electronics. Can someone enlighten me?

 

[Hancoque]

How does it compare to skipyrich's Tube Sound plugin (foo_dsp_tube) for foobar2000? Did anyone also try that?

 

[sinsiang]

Actually, the tube warmth(distortion) everyone is talking about it only very apparrent in some tube or badly designed amps. A well designed tube amp should sound clean, tight bass that goes low, impressively lifelike midrange(some tubes are better than others here), and with a high end that is not too.. how should I put it... too sharp or edgy.
But CHU is right here that digital distortion is very like clipping, which sounds horrible and that tube distortion some what preserves the waveform so it sounds nicer. Another note is that most SE tube amp's distortion are 2nd order harmonics which most people like and preceive as tube warmth.
Push-Pull tube amp's distortion contain more 3rd and 5th order harmonics, so when they distort, most people dislike it and say that it more like solid state.
As an ending I would say that well designed amps from both camps are equally beautiful sounding and in the end it boils down to individual preference.

siang

 

[LawnGnome]

If people say tubes can can leave the signal fairly unaltered, what is the advantage of using them over solid state amps?

If your looking for a amp with low distortion, IC's are the only way to go.

Compared to IC's, tubes distort the sound much much more. Some more than other. BUT, it is a distortion many people enjoy.

I'd say for sound the absolute closest to 100% unaltered sound, you need a good SS amp.

If you don't mind having an altered sound that is fuller and warmer, you should go for tubes.

If you want a tube amp that doesn't distort the sound, get a SS amp. Since the distortion is what makes the tune sound the tube sound.

 

[sinsiang]

LawnGnome, I would say you are kinda right, most people go for the tube distortion. But ss amps all have a certain amount of distortion, and the distortion is more of 3rd and 5th order harmonics which most people don't like. All amps have a certain amount of distortion, some more some less, but when you have a good SE tube amp that has little distortion but when it distorts, it is mostly 2nd order harmonics so you have a clean, fast and tight sound that is also liquidy smooth(2nd harmonics).

siang

 

[Murugesh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hancoque /img/forum/go_quote.gif How does it compare to skipyrich's Tube Sound plugin (foo_dsp_tube) for foobar2000? Did anyone also try that?

I just installed the plugin you referred. Irrespective of whatever setting I make it sounds the same. No alteration in sound output !!?!! Am I doing something wrong here? Do you feel this plugin add value to warmth of original sound? Let me know.

 

[003]

Piccolo, a tube amp is not going to produce changes like the plugin you have been using. It will be much, much more subtle, nothing that will hit you in the face, be night and day or totally floor you. Tube overdrive is another matter altogether and the results are actually just distortion... (and in reality you won't be able to hear the differences in distortion from a high quality tube amp and a high quality ss amp. differences will exist but they will be due to other factors such as the topology of the amp, components used, etc...) sinsiang is right on.

 

[LawnGnome]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murugesh /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just installed the plugin you referred. Irrespective of whatever setting I make it sounds the same. No alteration in sound output !!?!! Am I doing something wrong here? Do you feel this plugin add value to warmth of original sound? Let me know.

I tried A/Bing the plugin, but it is VERY difficult to find a difference because the output level also seems to change.

The plugin seems to make everything louder, so I can't AB it very well.

After some playing with the settings, I decided it wasn't for me.

Think I'm going to run RMAA on it to see how it affects the sound.

 

[PiccoloNamek]

Quote:

Piccolo, a tube amp is not going to produce changes like the plugin you have been using. It will be much, much more subtle, nothing that will hit you in the face, be night and day or totally floor you.

Then why are some people so fervent in their support of tube amplifiers?

Quote:

I tried A/Bing the plugin, but it is VERY difficult to find a difference because the output level also seems to change.

The difference is clearly audible even when the levels are matched. Plus, you can see the effect when doing a frequency analysis. There IS a difference, because it can be easily detected and measured.

Truthfully, even if this plugin is completely unrealistic, I still find the effect pleasant enough to leave it on all the time.

 

[darkless]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek /img/forum/go_quote.gif The difference is clearly audible even when the levels are matched. Plus, you can see the effect when doing a frequency analysis. There IS a difference, because it can be easily detected and measured. Truthfully, even if this plugin is completely unrealistic, I still find the effect pleasant enough to leave it on all the time.

Were your comments based on the fact that Hancoque and Murugesh were talking about skipyrich's Tube Sound plugin and not the Voxengo plugin you originally referred to?

 

[003]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PiccoloNamek /img/forum/go_quote.gif Then why are some people so fervent in their support of tube amplifiers?

Because most tube amps are made to audiophile standards and are quite good. There are no "cheap" or "crappy" tube amps really being made because it's such a niche market ... nobody would buy them.

 

[Redo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murugesh /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just installed the plugin you referred. Irrespective of whatever setting I make it sounds the same. No alteration in sound output !!?!! Am I doing something wrong here? Do you feel this plugin add value to warmth of original sound? Let me know.

Do you have the latest Foobar2000? This plugin makes MASSIVE overdrive/distortion at the highest settings. If you crank "asymmetric" all the way, you should have some serious overdrive.

This plugin is more a basic guitar/rock organ* style overdrive though, not a reproduction sweetness tube sound.