[cel4145]

As a general nudge to the P7's and the pm-3's... both being closed back, how does the sound stage and signature vary in comparison to the hd650s? Im okay with a pretty neutral sound sig, but emphasis on certain areas isn't unwelcome.

Open headphones typically have much better soundstage than closed.

So would an external dac provide more clarity or what?

Maybe. Possibly. Depends a bit on who you ask and what device you are connecting to. Some devices have very low distortion output, so an internal DAC may not improve much or at all. And then how much an improvement, when there is any, is very much a subjective thing. I see people swearing that X made a giant difference with equipment where I find the differences is minor. Know that the majority of people agree that the biggest SQ benefit usually comes from (a) the quality of the headphones and (b) that you have an amp capable of powering them.

 

[mysticstryk]

As a general nudge to the P7's and the pm-3's... both being closed back, how does the sound stage and signature vary in comparison to the hd650s? Im okay with a pretty neutral sound sig, but emphasis on certain areas isn't unwelcome.

I have owned the pm3 twice. I've returned them both times. They are really good at what they are made for, portable isolating headphones. They honestly don't hold a candle to my hd650 setup. Pm3 is rather neutral in the bass and mids, but the treble rolls off early, making for a rather boring sound to a lot of people. They do respond to EQ well though.

Unless you need the isolation, open back will generally be better at almost any price point.

Thanks, the more you know right. Like I said, im pretty new to dacs and amps so that little crash course is nice . So would an external dac provide more clarity or what? still a bit confused on what the overall effect a dac has on the sound of a pair of headphones.

A DAC can affect the sound signature just like an amp. Generally speaking yes, they will give you more clarity.

Everything is digital if you playing music from a computer. The DAC converts it into analog and feeds the analog signal into the amp.

Edit: The DAC inside your PC's soundcard will do this if you don't buy an external DAC. Unless you have a really nice soundcard, an external DAC could provide a noticeable benefit. However generally speaking, the DAC will provide the smallest benefit out of the main chain. Usually sonic benefits go as such: headphone>>>amp>DAC.

 

[Zelderon]

Open headphones typically have much better soundstage than closed.
Maybe. Possibly. Depends a bit on who you ask and what device you are connecting to. Some devices have very low distortion output, so an internal DAC may not improve much or at all. And then how much an improvement, when there is any, is very much a subjective thing. I see people swearing that X made a giant difference with equipment where I find the differences is minor. Know that the majority of people agree that the biggest SQ benefit usually comes from (a) the quality of the headphones and (b) that you have an amp capable of powering them.

That bit about distortion makes perfect sense. For now im leaning toward forgoing an external DAC, ive definitely heard the external dac worshipers out there but I have faith that the hd650s will be able to handle them self with a decent amp. A large sound stage sounds pretty nice as well.

 

[Zelderon]

So far the Sennheiser hd650's are sounding like the way to go, unless there's some other open back headphone that can compete at its price point. there are some good open back planar magnetic headphones, but I've heard mixed feelings about them... now all that's left is to pick an amp... the vali 1 sounds like a nice option

 

[mysticstryk]

So far the Sennheiser hd650's are sounding like the way to go, unless there's some other open back headphone that can compete at its price point. there are some good open back planar magnetic headphones, but I've heard mixed feelings about them... now all that's left is to pick an amp... the vali 1 sounds like a nice option

At the hd650s price point? No, not really, unless your looking for a particular sound signature that the hd650 just doesn't have. The nice thing about the 650 is that it scales like mad and competes with headphones many times its price. It's ability to resolve with higher end gear is fantastic, while still being great out of budget setups.

The Vali 1 and Vali 2 are really the best there is at that price point when pairing with the hd600 or hd650.

If you do decide to get a DAC at some point, the hd650 will scale up with your new gear.

 

[PinkyPowers]

I agree that the DAC is the least important part of the chain, since all modern DACs are pretty good now. But don't mistake that for unimportant.

Do yourself a favor and get an external DAC. Even the cheapest Schiit box will resolve cleaner and with more detail than one fed by your PC's power. The HD650 deserves at least that much.

 

[Zelderon]

Thanks for all the help and advice guys, I'll give you all a heads up when I've made a decision and purchase. I'm sure my wallet will eventually recover

 

[mysticstryk]

Thanks for all the help and advice guys, I'll give you all a heads up when I've made a decision and purchase. I'm sure my wallet will eventually recover

Sounds good! Stop by the official hd650 thread to give your impressions if you get it.