[EFN]

After rigorous testing of various file format from Lame MP3 to AAC to Ogg to WMV I have given up on lossy compressed file (from VBR to 320kbps). I have always wanted to use FLAC but my portable rig does not play FLAC. maybe someday I will buy an iPod or iRiver and get them Rockboxxed.

So what options do I have, back to basic good ol Wave file! I know the size is ridiculous - around 600MB for just ONE album hahahaha. With this in mind I have gotten myself a used Creative ZEN Neeon 5GB, I would have gone for bigger player but due to budget constraint and attractive price offered by a buddy, Neeon is okay.

The decision to abandon MP3 format altogether was simple, as most would have already know, with good player and headphone, any encoding/decoding/compressing imperfections will be quite noticable (or should I say listenable). Not to mention loss of some sweet extended sounds from the original tracks. And they respond very well to file volume increase and Equalizer - totally no distortion!

Now that I have jammed packed my Neeon with 111 songs (9 cds worth), I am enjoying true CD quality songs - no blemishes or distortion whatsoever. And the best part is that I get to hear articulate details unheard before - trully enjoyable.

Oh yes, some will say might as well use portable CD player, well, CD player are still bulky and you need to change the CD amost everytime hahahaha

And thus my tribute to a sound format which has always been there since the beginning of digitized medium.

 

[Laptopia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFN After rigorous testing of various file format from Lame MP3 to AAC to Ogg to WMV I have given up on lossy compressed file (from VBR to 320kbps). I have always wanted to use FLAC but my portable rig does not play FLAC. maybe someday I will buy an iPod or iRiver and get them Rockboxxed. So what options do I have, back to basic good ol Wave file! I know the size is ridiculous - around 600MB for just ONE album hahahaha. With this in mind I have gotten myself a used Creative ZEN Neeon 5GB, I would have gone for bigger player but due to budget constraint and attractive price offered by a buddy, Neeon is okay. The decision to abandon MP3 format altogether was simple, as most would have already know, with good player and headphone, any encoding/decoding/compressing imperfections will be quite noticable (or should I say listenable). Not to mention loss of some sweet extended sounds from the original tracks. And they respond very well to file volume increase and Equalizer - totally no distortion! Now that I have jammed packed my Neeon with 111 songs (9 cds worth), I am enjoying true CD quality songs - no blemishes or distortion whatsoever. And the best part is that I get to hear articulate details unheard before - trully enjoyable. Oh yes, some will say might as well use portable CD player, well, CD player are still bulky and you need to change the CD amost everytime hahahaha And thus my tribute to a sound format which has always been there since the beginning of digitized medium.

Makes good sense to me. I would rather have a few beauties than a player packed-full with tunes ripped in so-so quality. I am surprised, however, that you didn't like a 320kbps MP3 file. I can't tell the difference, even from my "best" sources (which ain't that great, admittedly).

 

[EFN]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob ♫ Makes good sense to me. I would rather have a few beauties than a player packed-full with tunes ripped in so-so quality. I am surprised, however, that you didn't like a 320kbps MP3 file. I can't tell the difference, even from my "best" sources (which ain't that great, admittedly).

Well actually Lame 320 were good. but on certain tracks that are heavy with synthesizers and complex percussions if you compare side by side they lacked depth. And I find bass extension goes deeper in wave - maybe just me. But the day will come when I will run out of space and suddenly Lame 320 looked like a saviour LOL!

 

[sidewinder]

I've been thinking about HD players also to play WAVE, but am worried about the overall SQ of the player or the DAC inside it.

 

[Febs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFN After rigorous testing of various file format from Lame MP3 to AAC to Ogg to WMV I have given up on lossy compressed file (from VBR to 320kbps).

I'm curious. How did you conduct your "rigorous" testing?

 

[DJ e]

Nice; I've been using WAV on my DAP since last yr.

 

[ILikeMusic]

I'm curious. How did you conduct your "rigorous" testing?

Was kind of wondering that myself.

 

[wanderman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Febs I'm curious. How did you conduct your "rigorous" testing?

I would also like to know.

 

[EFN]

Rigorous testing simply means collecting all those CDs and start encoding them using the following software: Fast CD Ripper (MP3 & Ogg), Nero 6 Ultra Edition (Lame MP3, MP3 Pro, Nero AAC, Nero M4A), Windows Media Player 11 (WMA all models), iTunes (M4A and AAC) and lastly Foobar (Lame MP3 and Wave). I played them on different sources with a few set of cans.

It's a cycle of listening to different format with the same songs with varying bitrate everyday, from 128 to 320 to VBR. Spent countless hours listening to them for the last two weeks every single day. It was just recently I decided to test the uncompressed source which is the wave file and I was pleasantly amazed by the subtle differences - the refinement. Then it dawned to me that the good ol PCM Wave still rules despite the shortcoming in insane size

 

[sidewinder]

Refinement is indeed the right description of WAVE.

 

[vranswer]

Assert something like this over at HydrogenAudio, and get a chorus response such as this: "A-B-X, A-B-X...you MUST ABX!!!" However I find the differences very difficult to discern by flipping back and forth between the two file types.

The audio pundits will then say that means you can't hear a difference, but that's simply untrue. The improvement is quite subtle, and shows itself only over time (for me) with extended listening. As said here it is in a depth of sound and a more rich and scaleable bass response. I now can only fit one or two albums on my two iPod Shuffles but WAV it is for them.

P.S. - on my iAudio U2, ogg files compressed at q8 setting sound pretty darn good.

 

[EFN]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vranswer Assert something like this over at HydrogenAudio, and get a chorus response such as this: "A-B-X, A-B-X...you MUST ABX!!!" However I find the differences very difficult to discern by flipping back and forth between the two file types. The audio pundits will then say that means you can't hear a difference, but that's simply untrue. The improvement is quite subtle, and shows itself only over time (for me) with extended listening. As said here it is in a depth of sound and a more rich and scaleable bass response. I now can only fit one or two albums on my two iPod Shuffles but WAV it is for them. P.S. - on my iAudio U2, ogg files compressed at q8 setting sound pretty darn good.

How true. The subtle differences is audible if you pay attention to them - I called that "enjoying music"....getting relaxed and focus on appreciating the tunes - for this sort of listening WAV reigns supreme. But truthfully on the same rig while walking about and doing other stuffs they all sounded the same to me - definitely VBR Lame wins for compactness and compromise in that scenario.....duh how I wish I have a Rockbox to enjoy FLAC or Ogg Q8.

 

[ILikeMusic]

Quote:

Assert something like this over at HydrogenAudio, and get a chorus response such as this: "A-B-X, A-B-X...you MUST ABX!!!"

I wouldn't be so quick to poke fun at them because in the above statement they would be exactly correct. Without such a test your comments can never be anything more than a mere assertion.

You don't have to A-B-X in short bursts, that is usually done only because most people find it easier to resolve differences that way. If you like you can use longer cycles, say a full day of WAV and then a full day of high-bitrate compressed and see if you can reliably resolve the difference in a blind test. That's what it takes to be able to make any credible claim one way or the other.

 

[Febs]

With something like Foobar2000's ABX feature, you can listen to the entire song during your ABX test, as many times as you need to listen to make your decision about whether X is A or X is B. I suggest that if an entire song is not sufficiently long to allow you to hear a difference, there is no difference.

 

[vranswer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILikeMusic I wouldn't be so quick to poke fun at them because in the above statement they would be exactly correct. Without such a test your comments can never be anything more than a mere assertion. You don't have to A-B-X in short bursts, that is usually done only because most people find it easier to resolve differences that way. If you like you can use longer cycles, say a full day of WAV and then a full day of high-bitrate compressed and see if you can reliably resolve the difference in a blind test. That's what it takes to be able to make any credible claim one way or the other.

Sorry, wasn't poking, just a difference of experience. My ABX happens in real life/real time - I do the full day comparison sans the Foobar, and that's how I know the difference.