[10068]

Funny that the instrumentalists were writing the lyrics as well. Why don't they just kick out LaBrie? They don't need him.

BTW, i've always thought thier lyrics were DT's weakest point. Some lines are killer, but overall there's lots of improvement to be made.

In regards to Jordan Rudess, I think his grasp of classical piano is phenomenal. He is simply a more "jazz" keyboardist than the other guy was, and some people might not be able to adjust to that.

Also, ever stop to wonder if maybe they (the songwriters) simply aren't giving Rudess the time of day? I feel like the times when he has solos, he totally takes the stage. So why not have him blasting us with his talent during all moments of every song?

Probably because the drummer and guitarist of this band are egotistical and like themselves in the spotlight. Look at it on a broad scale... probably 75% of DT's songs focus primarliy on drums and guitar.

Nothing wrong with that; rock and metal are pretty cool with great drums and great guitar. But when you write music BY a drummer and guitarist, FOR a drummer and guitarist, that's really lame. :/


Also, what's this business about people hating Six Degrees? That is a fantastic album. The band really comes together as a whole, and LaBrie finds his old voice again. If you think Rudess is lacking in harmonic and melodic skills, listen to this album all the way through. It makes you guys just sound like a bunch of whiners. lol.

Along that vein, Scenes From A Memory is even better an example of what Dream Theater can do when they really come together as a team. Too bad Petrucci and Portnoy are hijacking the show on other albums...


And finally, I do think Octavarium is a great track (even though his vocals are strained at times). It's quite the prog epic. I like how it portrays the agony and fruitlessness of our lost generation, the moment when they realize that they will never achieve enlighenment or self-actualization in this lifetime. The death of the mainstream man, encapsulated in song.

 

[immtbiker]

I was shocked and let down, when I heard some of the songs on Octavarium, which came out so close to the release of TOT. It's a little bubble gum, and a step in the wrong direction.

This might be obvious to some, or it might be the mushrooms that I took in the '70's coming back to haunt me, buy aren't the lyrics in the section in "The Root of All Evil" -{I can feel my body breaking} from Octavarium, the same as in "The Dying Soul" off TOT. Or is it supposed to be that way?

That's so Beatles/Pink Floyd-like.

I would vote for a fourth option in the poll:

O - Some aspects of the CD are good, and some are trash

 

[10068]

Quote:

Originally Posted by immtbiker I was shocked and let down, when I heard some of the songs on Octavarium, which came out so close to the release of TOT. It's a little bubble gum, and a step in the wrong direction. This might be obvious to some, or it might be the mushrooms that I took in the '70's coming back to haunt me, buy aren't the lyrics in the section in "The Root of All Evil" -{I can feel my body breaking} from Octavarium, the same as in "The Dying Soul" off TOT. Or is it supposed to be that way? That's so Beatles/Pink Floyd-like. I would vote for a fourth option in the poll: O - Some aspects of the CD are good, and some are trash

I think that's the point... this album was much like Pink Floyd's masterpieces in many ways, I think they meant to pay homage to the masters.

And yes, Root Of All Evil quotes actually *3* of their previous songs, not just one. Listen again

It's pretty cool actually, in my opinion.

Dude didn't you see the previous threads about this? DT loves to makes their albums cyclical, and also ties different albums into each other.

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

I would have chosen the option you mention, but since it isn't there, I went with the first, since I don't think the CD on the whole is trash, though it is their weakest certainly since FII perhaps since WDADU.

Regarding the lyrics, the Root of All Evil is supposed to be that was as it is part of a series linking to This Dying Soul and The Glass Prison.

Though James definitely doesn't sing as well as he used to, he is not the only culprit for the generally lackluster performance that is 8varium. IMO Panic Attack is the only song on there that is really what DT does best, general insanity, which still manages to be highly melodic and involving, yet mind-bogglingly complex and amazing. There was much more of this on just about every album they've done. A few songs on 8varium have flashes of this from time to time, like These Walls and The Root... The slower, more melodic parts and songs on 8varium lack the genuine emotion and feeling of similar pieces from past albums, with SFAM being their best in this category. Sacrificed Sons is by far the weakest track IMO, as it seems to me to be little more than a rehash of In The Name of God, minus the instrumental pyrotechnics, and the song goes far longer than I'd ever want to hear, for how amazingly dull it is. The epic title track is a hodgepodge of these issues, sometimes it is dull and generally emotionless, sometimes dazzling, and James' voice generally sounds quite a bit less than lustrous.

Before DT puts out another sub-par album like this, they need to address some issues:

1) James' voice: Tour less, give him more time off, something, because I think his voice is such an integral part of the band's history, it would be a shame to have to bring in someone else.

2) Writing better lyrics: Time to let Myung write some songs again for a change, as he has penned some of their most meaningful songs, but hasn't written in years. They certainly need something to change the monotony that Petrucci and Portnoy have apparently gotten themselves into.

3) Writing better music: Again P&P need to drop their obsession fo trying to make each album emulate an "influence," or sound more "modern" and get back to writing the kind of explosively musical songs that really made DT what they are. I'm sure more input from the others (esp. Rudess) wouldn't hurt either.

I would like to think these things can happen, but perhaps we have gotten all we are to get from them, and time has passed them by, and we will never hear the sorts of things from DT that we started to take for granted at some point. Though great and talented artists they certainly are, it pains me to wonder if the creative spark is gone and they are now little more than highly tuned performance robots (or not so well tuned lately in the case of LaBrie).

 

[3DCadman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer 2) Writing better lyrics: Time to let Myung write some songs again for a change, as he has penned some of their most meaningful songs, but hasn't written in years. They certainly need something to change the monotony that Petrucci and Portnoy have apparently gotten themselves into.

I remember reading somewhere that MP & JP introduced some "rule" that no one can bring lyrics for an album without it being fully fleshed out with the music or melody along with it. Seems as though Myung just wrote the lyrics and handed it over to the boys to finish. Apparently, if you want to write for DT, you must go all the way!

Love 'em anyway!

 

[ojnihs]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron_Dreamer I would have chosen the option you mention, but since it isn't there, I went with the first, since I don't think the CD on the whole is trash, though it is their weakest certainly since FII perhaps since WDADU. Though James definitely doesn't sing as well as he used to, he is not the only culprit for the generally lackluster performance that is 8varium. IMO Panic Attack is the only song on there that is really what DT does best, general insanity, which still manages to be highly melodic and involving, yet mind-bogglingly complex and amazing.

I couldn't agree more with your statement Iron... To be honest, I used to like 8varium, mostly the first few times I listened through it. After a few more listens, however, when I really put my ear into it, I began to feel like DT was holding back. James's voice is definitely not as crystal clear as it used to be, and yes, he can't seem to hold the tone very well anymore, but come on, he's an amazing singer with amazing amount of talent, and honestly, I still think he can out-sing many of the artists out there.

But Peter definitely has a point in his statement that James isn't the only one that seems "off" on this album. I didn't hear the crazy drum playing by Portnoy and I didn't hear the amazing guitar shredding that Petrucci is famous for. What happened to this group? For the group that many boast as being the most talented band in the music business today, I was less than impressed. These days, I see myself going back to their older albums, especially Images and Awake.

 

[immtbiker]

Awake is my favorite DT album. Performance wise I give it 5 Speakers, but sonics wise it gets only 2 and 1/2.

 

[asmox]

here's my take on Octavarium and Train of Thought, the two most blatant love/hate DT albums -

Train of Thought was a severe departure from the majority of what DT had done prior, but it was still interesting music. the album was full of mind-boggling passages, creative rhythms, tasty unisons, incredible drumming, and pretty much a lot of everything that makes you stop and say, 'wow!!!'.

what did 8vm have? really bad lyrics, lots of mainstream appeal, rather uninteresting drumming, a decisive lack of Petrucci, a noticeable absence of anything creative or 'progressive', and influences-worn-on-your-sleeve in a way never before witnessed on a DT album.

i don't know. i actually bought Train of Thought really late compared to most of the DT fanbase.. and when i finally did buy it, i had already been exposed to all the crap-talking that album had received. i wasn't expecting much.. yet, my first impression after listening through Train of Thought in my car was, 'that was insane, man!'.

on the other hand, my first impression after listening through Octavarium in my car was something like, 'what? that was Dream Theater?'. here i am, around five months later, and my very negative opinion of Octavarium has not really changed. i think i enjoy 'The Root of All Evil' a bit more than i used to, and 'These Walls' a little less.. but that's all.

it's just.. ugh. i really think that ToT and 8vm have been the victims of lots of crap for completely different reasons.. and in 8vm's case, it's far more justified.

one final thought - a lot of my hate towards Octavarium comes from putting the album next to other recent albums from other bands, and next to DT's own past albums. it's important that you do not misinterpret what i'm trying to say here. i was NOT expecting an album that sounds just like Awake, or SFAM, or any other album that they have put out in the past. nor was i expecting an utter progressive masterpiece to rival the likes of Pain of Salvation's 'Entropia' or the best of Ayreon.. i think that's a really silly thing to expect of a band. not to mention that those kinds of expectations are almost always a precursor to disappointment.

so what WAS i expecting? a recording with a level of quality that's consistent with what the band is capable of. i don't care if it actually SOUNDS like anything that DT has released in the past.. so all the guys that like to say, 'you don't like Octavarium because it's different!' - no, that is absolutely not why i don't like Octavarium. they can put out a recording that sounds like the latest skull-crushery from Ion Dissonance, or the laid back psychedelic space rock of Ozric Tentacles. as long as it's done with the creativity, mastery, innovation, and originality that Dream Theater are capable of.. i don't give a crap WHAT it sounds like.

Octavarium is, in my eyes, a totally generic recording.. i hate that, especially in a genre of music that's supposed to be "progressive".

 

[10068]

Quote:

Octavarium is, in my eyes, a totally generic recording.. i hate that, especially in a genre of music that's supposed to be "progressive".

Even the title track? Hm. I like the title track more and more every time I hear it

And Panic Attack rocks.

 

[asmox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sduibek Even the title track? Hm. I like the title track more and more every time I hear it

the title track - while it has several neat moments - reeks of The Flower Kings and Pink Floyd. i don't mind having inspiration and influence in your music, but damn.. sometimes bands just go overboard, you know?

the only track from 8vm that grabs my attention in any sort of significant way is Sacrificed Sons.. and even then, it's mostly the latter half. i find it extremely difficult to love any single song on this record in its entirety.. much less the whole album.

 

[pne]

Am I the only one who liked scenes??

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pne Am I the only one who liked scenes??

I think it's their best full album.

 

[Doc Sarvis]

I'm amazed at the polar extremes and love/hate viewpoints of DT fans - more pronounced than in any other fan base IMO.

I see Octavarium as kind of a sampler of DT styles - it doesn't really break any new ground but it contains examples of genres that one can find in abundance on other DT recordings. As a result, it's a good intro to the band, but is not likely to make any true fan's list of favorites.

And, the truth is, a singer's voice does not stay the same forever. One can only hope that it changes in pleasing ways, and I think LaBrie's has done just that.

My 2 cents...

 

[10068]

Quote:

Originally Posted by asmox the title track - while it has several neat moments - reeks of The Flower Kings and Pink Floyd. i don't mind having inspiration and influence in your music, but damn.. sometimes bands just go overboard, you know? the only track from 8vm that grabs my attention in any sort of significant way is Sacrificed Sons.. and even then, it's mostly the latter half. i find it extremely difficult to love any single song on this record in its entirety.. much less the whole album.

All I know is that I can't help but air guitar during Panic Attack... gets me everytime