[MachineGunz]

Hi,

A few months ago I asked for recommendations for TOTL headphones and dac + amp.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/totl-system-suggestions-for-metal-music.916611/

After reading so much online I decided I can't invest so much money without tying the options for myself.

I am flying to Amsterdam to compare as many headphones as I can.

My current system is:

Headphones: Audeze LCD-X
Dac: Schiit Modi 3
AMP: SMSL SP200

I am going in to this in hopes of:

1. Checking if TOTL sound is an acutal substantial improvement over my current system.

2. Finding the best headphones for my tasted of music (Metal and electronic)

3. Learning as much as I can about different headphones, combinations and sound signatures.


Hopefully I will be able to hear every headphone but I plan to listen to the:

Abyss phi TC
Audeze LCD 4
HE 1000 SE
HE Susvara
Focal Utopia
Meze Empyrean

If you have any special requests you want me to do feel free to ask.

Hopefully my experience will help everyone who is in a similar position.

Edit: wow! Where do I even begin.

I went to Headphone Auditions in Amsterdam.

Stefan, the owner is a super nice guy, Extremely knowledgeable.

At first I went to a private audition and in the span of 4 hours I found my headphones. After the first Audition I came by the next two days to continue and try different headphones, dacs and amps. Overall I had about 10 hours of listening.

Honestly I know it's his job but the way he directed me towards the perfect pair still impresses me.

Basically the process of the private audition %was - I listen to a pair of headphones with a song or two, give me feedback and we move to the next headphone.

The main song I listened to on every headphone was: Deaf among the blind by Orden Ogan

If I didn't like how the song sounded I moved to the next headphone.

If I liked certain aspects I tried a few more songs and came to a conclusion.

The headphones were tested on the Fidelice precision DAC, If I used different equipment I will specify it.

I am now going to write my impressions on every headphone by the order I listened to them:

So the first headphone I tried were the HE1, Stefan said he wanted to clear my ears and let me listen to the music as it should sound, In his words: You were used to see the world with a pink sunglasses and now you will use a clear set and see the world as it should look with no coloration.


1. Sennheiser HE 1 -

Spoiler: Orpheus

Sennheiser HE 1 (with their own amp) (Stefan said that a DSP was active to compensate on the lack of bass on electrostatic headphones) -



ahh the Orpheus, In terms of comfort - They are comfortable, very light, good with glasses, but they don't feel like a premium headphone.

I was extremely excited to see them and more excited to try them, I expected and AMAZING experience that will blow me away!

What I actually got was shocking and disappointing: Metal sounds terrible on these headphones.

Now, before you kill me and say I am crazy- I did try different genres on the Orpheus and they were insane but for metal? No.

These are probably the most revealing headphones in the world - They expose every single flaw in the recording, And in metal there are tons of flaws.

If I can describe how they sounded in one word: metallic.


They sounded distant, tiny, metallic, The dialogues sounded unnatural they were too bright and weak, they also were at the back of the recording hiding and sounded unclear.

When I say they sound metallic I mean that they sound like the sounds come through a megaphone made of thin tin that brightens the sound, creates harshness, focuses too much on the treble and as a result everything sounds tiny and too bright.


Deaf among the blind - Orden Ogan - At the beginning there is amazing detail, the growls at the start aren't clear and sound distant.

The bass quantity was a bit low but it was well defined and had nice impact.

At around 1:24 there are cymbals that are playing in both ears - They didn't sound that detailed and did not have a lot of presence.

This trend continues - Overall the sound is bright, tiny and sounds distorted (which is the fault of the recording).

At around 04:07 there are synths that were very detailed with a good presence and body.

At around 04:38 there are very fast kick drums that are not detailed. I am going to be adding the headphones slowly.

Overall - Horrendous, Tons of distortion, brightness, harshness, nice bass impact and detail but completely unbearable do to the extreme exposure and detail of the faults of the recording.

2. Hifiman Susvara -

Spoiler: Susvara

Hifiman Susvara

Comfort - light, comfortable, good with glasses, good build quality.

Deaf among the blind - Orden Ogan

I noticed that the Susvara sounded brighter than the HE1.

The growl at the beginning sounded a little bit clearer.

There was clearly less bass impact.

Like the HE1 they also sounded bright, However the dialogue sounded just a bit less distant (which is good).

At 1:24 the cymbals were clearer and more defined than the HE1.

At 02:11 there is a single cymbal at the right side, It sounded very clear on the Susvara (which is good)

The bass impact was still low and didn't change.

At 02:27 the two cymbals going from ear to ear were clearer than the HE1 but still didn't sounded small with not much presence.

The guitar solo at 03:30 wasn't detailed and like the HE1 the Soundstage was small.

The synths at 04:06 had less detail and presence than the HE1, But the difference isn't huge and I still liked it a lot.

The fast kick drums at 04:30 sounded a lot like the HE1 but were a tiny tiny bit less metallic (which is good but still too metallic)


Overall they were similar to the HE1 in sound but they were less detailed so they exposed less mistakes - Therefore they were a bit better than the HE1 but still pretty horrible due to the brightness, harshness, lack of bass impact and body to the sound.

The good:
Light and comfortable
Good with glasses.
Ok detail retrieval.

The bad:
too bright
weak bass impact
they sound thin and light without a sense of power.
Can sound distant and metallic.

3. Focal Utopia -

Spoiler: Utopia

They are very comfortable and airy.
Good build quality but feel a bit awkward when you hold them.
Low clamp force and good with glasses.

Deaf among the blind

The guitar at the start seems closer, Has more focus on it (which I like!)
The guitar is nicely detailed

The growl isn't that clear but there is good detail and separation in the drums.

The bass impact is nearly nonexistent.
Larger soundstage and overall sense of space.
Better details than the HE1 and the susvara in the drums and guitars, The dialogue doesn't sound far anymore.
The sound is less metallic.
There is a very good balance between the dialogue and the rest of the song (nothing obscures each other).
At 02:17 the snares are clear.
At 02:25 the snares and drums are clear.

At the guitar solo at 03:23 there was a really nice focus on the guitar while the drums were still very detailed.
The separation between the different instruments were very good.

The synths at 04:07 lost a bit of detail but were still clear.
The drums from 04:20 forward had good detail which I really liked.
The fast drums at 04:42 were really unclear and undefined.

If only they had good bass impact they could have been my totl headphone.


The good:
Very comfortable with low clamp force.
good with glasses.
Really really good detail retrieval while keeping good balance between instruments and dialogue.

The bad:
Bass impact is non-existent and hardly felt.

4. Meze Empyrean -

Spoiler: Empyrean

In terms of weight they were pretty light.

Good build quality, They feel good in your hands.

The clamp force was higher than the utopia and the previous headphones.

Not the best for glasses.

There is much more bass quantity than the utopia and the susvara and the HE1 however it sounded muddy and not that clear and defined.

There is more impact which I like but like I said the definition is low.

Dialogue was ok (not very metallic and fairly natural), But it wasn't forward and in the back.

The snares at 01:50 are very clear.
the snares at 02:07 are again clear and detailed.
The snares at 02:26 are clear once again.
The drums at 02:34 are quite detailed.
The dialogue is a bit metallic, Again, In terms of detail and cleanliness it's ok, But it's behind the rest of the song and not in the front - It is swallowed by the rest of the song.

They don't sound real - The bass is muddy and bloated and a kind of thick layer on them.

The synths were ok.

At 04:20 the drums had a good sense of body and impact but sounded muddy (like there was some kind of veil on them hiding the definition and the details).

The fast leg drums were still unclear but sounded better than the utopia.

Overall they reminded my my LCD-X, If they had better bass definition they could have been really good, They had good details and nice amount of bass, But the muddiness was too much for me.

The good:
Good build quality, They feel premium.
They have more bass quantity and good bass impact for that extra kick of power.
They are detailed and the highs aren't harsh.

The bad:
High clamp force which is not the best for glasses.
Muddiness in the bass that killed it for me.

In the end I tried 14 different headphones on different dacs and amps, The experience was incredible!

 

[Focux]

if u like how X sounds,

prob Empyrean, LCD4 and Phi TC would be to your liking

HFM imo may not have the kind of low end slam Empy and LCD series does

do correct me ^

 

[phaeton70]

for the planned target music, I expect you will find Abyss and (to a lesser extent) LCD4 the best, and Utopia the worst (I actually suggest you don't even waste time on those with metal/electronic...)
Hifiman will be somewhat in the middle.
if you can I suggest you give a try to Kennerton totl and to Sony Z1R, both should be very good with metal and definitely good with electronic

 

[attmci]

To be honest, you need much better DAC and AMP.

 

[paradoxper]

Yup. Upgrade your chain first for consideration.

 

[roadcykler]

Regardless of your components, the headphone, just like speakers, will make the biggest difference in how the music sounds. Very recently in the Schiit thread, Jason had a blind listening test, and the differences, if any, in the amps/dacs was minimal, if even noticeable. Don't fall for the erroneous trap that more expense equals better sound, especially with the stuff between the source and headphones.

 

[Ciggavelli]

I’m predicting it now. You’re gonna get the TCs because they are the best option for most metal and electronic music. I’d suggest getting a nice and powerful tube amp, like the WA33 (some use the WA22), as the TCs love power.

I’m not sure what your budget is, but get a good dac too.

I’ve built my chain specifically for metal and hip-hop first, the rest of the genres next. I’ve tried a bunch of different components, and for both metal and rap, I’d definitely recommend:

WooAudio WA33 (I feel like this an ideal amp for the TCs, and other headphones too).

Chord TT2 or DAVE (DAVE has better Bass)

M-Scaler to improve resolution and timing (if budget allows).

The Super Conductor Cable (really helpswith bass extension and instrument separation)

Some usb reclocker (SOtM txusb, ISO Regen, Innuos Phoenix, etc,) for a more “analog” sound with much better timing

Quality cables to further tune the chain to your liking (check out thecableco.com)

 

[smoothb0re]

I was shocked to hear how tight HE1000se's low end is. Despite how great the resolution, speed and imaging is, the low end quality is the thing I keep marveling at. It's difficult to imagine anything better. Was nice to see that I'm absolutely fine running a TOTL class headphone with a $300 amp in the SP200. THX are total wizards.

 

[cmarsili]

Hi,

A few months ago I asked for recommendations for TOTL headphones and dac + amp.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/totl-system-suggestions-for-metal-music.916611/

After reading so much online I decided I can't invest so much money without tying the options for myself.

I am flying to Amsterdam to compare as many headphones as I can.

My current system is:

Headphones: Audeze LCD-X
Dac: Schiit Modi 3
AMP: SMSL SP200

I am going in to this in hopes of:

1. Checking if TOTL sound is an acutal substantial improvement over my current system.

2. Finding the best headphones for my tasted of music (Metal and electronic)

3. Learning as much as I can about different headphones, combinations and sound signatures.


Hopefully I will be able to hear every headphone but I plan to listen to the:

Abyss phi TC
Audeze LCD 4
HE 1000 SE
HE Susvara
Focal Utopia
Meze Empyrean

If you have any special requests you want me to do feel free to ask.

Hopefully my experience will help everyone who is in a similar position.

Edit: wow! Where do I even begin.

I went to Headphone Auditions in Amsterdam.

Stefan, the owner is a super nice guy, Extremely knowledgeable.

At first I went to a private audition and in the span of 4 hours I found my headphones. After the first Audition I came by the next two days to continue and try different headphones, dacs and amps. Overall I had about 10 hours of listening.

Honestly I know it's his job but the way he directed me towards the perfect pair still impresses me.

Basically the process of the private audition %was - I listen to a pair of headphones with a song or two, give me feedback and we move to the next headphone.

The main song I listened to on every headphone was: Deaf among the blind by Orden Ogan

If I didn't like how the song sounded I moved to the next headphone.

If I liked certain aspects I tried a few more songs and came to a conclusion.

The headphones were tested on the Fidelice precision DAC, If I used different equipment I will specify it.

I am now going to write my impressions on every headphone by the order I listened to them:

So the first headphone I tried were the HE1, Stefan said he wanted to clear my ears and let me listen to the music as it should sound, In his words: You were used to see the world with a pink sunglasses and now you will use a clear set and see the world as it should look with no coloration.


1. Sennheiser HE 1 -

Spoiler: Orpheus

Sennheiser HE 1 (with their own amp) (Stefan said that a DSP was active to compensate on the lack of bass on electrostatic headphones) -



ahh the Orpheus, In terms of comfort - They are comfortable, very light, good with glasses, but they don't feel like a premium headphone.

I was extremely excited to see them and more excited to try them, I expected and AMAZING experience that will blow me away!

What I actually got was shocking and disappointing: Metal sounds terrible on these headphones.

Now, before you kill me and say I am crazy- I did try different genres on the Orpheus and they were insane but for metal? No.

These are probably the most revealing headphones in the world - They expose every single flaw in the recording, And in metal there are tons of flaws.

If I can describe how they sounded in one word: metallic.


They sounded distant, tiny, metallic, The dialogues sounded unnatural they were too bright and weak, they also were at the back of the recording hiding and sounded unclear.

When I say they sound metallic I mean that they sound like the sounds come through a megaphone made of thin tin that brightens the sound, creates harshness, focuses too much on the treble and as a result everything sounds tiny and too bright.


Deaf among the blind - Orden Ogan - At the beginning there is amazing detail, the growls at the start aren't clear and sound distant.

The bass quantity was a bit low but it was well defined and had nice impact.

At around 1:24 there are cymbals that are playing in both ears - They didn't sound that detailed and did not have a lot of presence.

This trend continues - Overall the sound is bright, tiny and sounds distorted (which is the fault of the recording).

At around 04:07 there are synths that were very detailed with a good presence and body.

At around 04:38 there are very fast kick drums that are not detailed. I am going to be adding the headphones slowly.

Overall - Horrendous, Tons of distortion, brightness, harshness, nice bass impact and detail but completely unbearable do to the extreme exposure and detail of the faults of the recording.

2. Hifiman Susvara -

Spoiler: Susvara

Hifiman Susvara

Comfort - light, comfortable, good with glasses, good build quality.

Deaf among the blind - Orden Ogan

I noticed that the Susvara sounded brighter than the HE1.

The growl at the beginning sounded a little bit clearer.

There was clearly less bass impact.

Like the HE1 they also sounded bright, However the dialogue sounded just a bit less distant (which is good).

At 1:24 the cymbals were clearer and more defined than the HE1.

At 02:11 there is a single cymbal at the right side, It sounded very clear on the Susvara (which is good)

The bass impact was still low and didn't change.

At 02:27 the two cymbals going from ear to ear were clearer than the HE1 but still didn't sounded small with not much presence.

The guitar solo at 03:30 wasn't detailed and like the HE1 the Soundstage was small.

The synths at 04:06 had less detail and presence than the HE1, But the difference isn't huge and I still liked it a lot.

The fast kick drums at 04:30 sounded a lot like the HE1 but were a tiny tiny bit less metallic (which is good but still too metallic)


Overall they were similar to the HE1 in sound but they were less detailed so they exposed less mistakes - Therefore they were a bit better than the HE1 but still pretty horrible due to the brightness, harshness, lack of bass impact and body to the sound.

The good:
Light and comfortable
Good with glasses.
Ok detail retrieval.

The bad:
too bright
weak bass impact
they sound thin and light without a sense of power.
Can sound distant and metallic.

3. Focal Utopia -

Spoiler: Utopia

They are very comfortable and airy.
Good build quality but feel a bit awkward when you hold them.
Low clamp force and good with glasses.

Deaf among the blind

The guitar at the start seems closer, Has more focus on it (which I like!)
The guitar is nicely detailed

The growl isn't that clear but there is good detail and separation in the drums.

The bass impact is nearly nonexistent.
Larger soundstage and overall sense of space.
Better details than the HE1 and the susvara in the drums and guitars, The dialogue doesn't sound far anymore.
The sound is less metallic.
There is a very good balance between the dialogue and the rest of the song (nothing obscures each other).
At 02:17 the snares are clear.
At 02:25 the snares and drums are clear.

At the guitar solo at 03:23 there was a really nice focus on the guitar while the drums were still very detailed.
The separation between the different instruments were very good.

The synths at 04:07 lost a bit of detail but were still clear.
The drums from 04:20 forward had good detail which I really liked.
The fast drums at 04:42 were really unclear and undefined.

If only they had good bass impact they could have been my totl headphone.


The good:
Very comfortable with low clamp force.
good with glasses.
Really really good detail retrieval while keeping good balance between instruments and dialogue.

The bad:
Bass impact is non-existent and hardly felt.

4. Meze Empyrean -

Spoiler: Empyrean

In terms of weight they were pretty light.

Good build quality, They feel good in your hands.

The clamp force was higher than the utopia and the previous headphones.

Not the best for glasses.

There is much more bass quantity than the utopia and the susvara and the HE1 however it sounded muddy and not that clear and defined.

There is more impact which I like but like I said the definition is low.

Dialogue was ok (not very metallic and fairly natural), But it wasn't forward and in the back.

The snares at 01:50 are very clear.
the snares at 02:07 are again clear and detailed.
The snares at 02:26 are clear once again.
The drums at 02:34 are quite detailed.
The dialogue is a bit metallic, Again, In terms of detail and cleanliness it's ok, But it's behind the rest of the song and not in the front - It is swallowed by the rest of the song.

They don't sound real - The bass is muddy and bloated and a kind of thick layer on them.

The synths were ok.

At 04:20 the drums had a good sense of body and impact but sounded muddy (like there was some kind of veil on them hiding the definition and the details).

The fast leg drums were still unclear but sounded better than the utopia.

Overall they reminded my my LCD-X, If they had better bass definition they could have been really good, They had good details and nice amount of bass, But the muddiness was too much for me.

The good:
Good build quality, They feel premium.
They have more bass quantity and good bass impact for that extra kick of power.
They are detailed and the highs aren't harsh.

The bad:
High clamp force which is not the best for glasses.
Muddiness in the bass that killed it for me.

In the end I tried 14 different headphones on different dacs and amps, The experience was incredible!

I’ve been to that store. Great experience for sure. In the end which headphone did you go for? Cheers

 

[HBen]

Hi,

A few months ago I asked for recommendations for TOTL headphones and dac + amp.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/totl-system-suggestions-for-metal-music.916611/

After reading so much online I decided I can't invest so much money without tying the options for myself.

I am flying to Amsterdam to compare as many headphones as I can.

My current system is:

Headphones: Audeze LCD-X
Dac: Schiit Modi 3
AMP: SMSL SP200

I am going in to this in hopes of:

1. Checking if TOTL sound is an acutal substantial improvement over my current system.

2. Finding the best headphones for my tasted of music (Metal and electronic)

3. Learning as much as I can about different headphones, combinations and sound signatures.


Hopefully I will be able to hear every headphone but I plan to listen to the:

Abyss phi TC
Audeze LCD 4
HE 1000 SE
HE Susvara
Focal Utopia
Meze Empyrean

If you have any special requests you want me to do feel free to ask.

Hopefully my experience will help everyone who is in a similar position.

Edit: wow! Where do I even begin.

I went to Headphone Auditions in Amsterdam.

Stefan, the owner is a super nice guy, Extremely knowledgeable.

At first I went to a private audition and in the span of 4 hours I found my headphones. After the first Audition I came by the next two days to continue and try different headphones, dacs and amps. Overall I had about 10 hours of listening.

Honestly I know it's his job but the way he directed me towards the perfect pair still impresses me.

Basically the process of the private audition %was - I listen to a pair of headphones with a song or two, give me feedback and we move to the next headphone.

The main song I listened to on every headphone was: Deaf among the blind by Orden Ogan

If I didn't like how the song sounded I moved to the next headphone.

If I liked certain aspects I tried a few more songs and came to a conclusion.

The headphones were tested on the Fidelice precision DAC, If I used different equipment I will specify it.

I am now going to write my impressions on every headphone by the order I listened to them:

So the first headphone I tried were the HE1, Stefan said he wanted to clear my ears and let me listen to the music as it should sound, In his words: You were used to see the world with a pink sunglasses and now you will use a clear set and see the world as it should look with no coloration.


1. Sennheiser HE 1 -

Spoiler: Orpheus

Sennheiser HE 1 (with their own amp) (Stefan said that a DSP was active to compensate on the lack of bass on electrostatic headphones) -



ahh the Orpheus, In terms of comfort - They are comfortable, very light, good with glasses, but they don't feel like a premium headphone.

I was extremely excited to see them and more excited to try them, I expected and AMAZING experience that will blow me away!

What I actually got was shocking and disappointing: Metal sounds terrible on these headphones.

Now, before you kill me and say I am crazy- I did try different genres on the Orpheus and they were insane but for metal? No.

These are probably the most revealing headphones in the world - They expose every single flaw in the recording, And in metal there are tons of flaws.

If I can describe how they sounded in one word: metallic.


They sounded distant, tiny, metallic, The dialogues sounded unnatural they were too bright and weak, they also were at the back of the recording hiding and sounded unclear.

When I say they sound metallic I mean that they sound like the sounds come through a megaphone made of thin tin that brightens the sound, creates harshness, focuses too much on the treble and as a result everything sounds tiny and too bright.


Deaf among the blind - Orden Ogan - At the beginning there is amazing detail, the growls at the start aren't clear and sound distant.

The bass quantity was a bit low but it was well defined and had nice impact.

At around 1:24 there are cymbals that are playing in both ears - They didn't sound that detailed and did not have a lot of presence.

This trend continues - Overall the sound is bright, tiny and sounds distorted (which is the fault of the recording).

At around 04:07 there are synths that were very detailed with a good presence and body.

At around 04:38 there are very fast kick drums that are not detailed. I am going to be adding the headphones slowly.

Overall - Horrendous, Tons of distortion, brightness, harshness, nice bass impact and detail but completely unbearable do to the extreme exposure and detail of the faults of the recording.

2. Hifiman Susvara -

Spoiler: Susvara

Hifiman Susvara

Comfort - light, comfortable, good with glasses, good build quality.

Deaf among the blind - Orden Ogan

I noticed that the Susvara sounded brighter than the HE1.

The growl at the beginning sounded a little bit clearer.

There was clearly less bass impact.

Like the HE1 they also sounded bright, However the dialogue sounded just a bit less distant (which is good).

At 1:24 the cymbals were clearer and more defined than the HE1.

At 02:11 there is a single cymbal at the right side, It sounded very clear on the Susvara (which is good)

The bass impact was still low and didn't change.

At 02:27 the two cymbals going from ear to ear were clearer than the HE1 but still didn't sounded small with not much presence.

The guitar solo at 03:30 wasn't detailed and like the HE1 the Soundstage was small.

The synths at 04:06 had less detail and presence than the HE1, But the difference isn't huge and I still liked it a lot.

The fast kick drums at 04:30 sounded a lot like the HE1 but were a tiny tiny bit less metallic (which is good but still too metallic)


Overall they were similar to the HE1 in sound but they were less detailed so they exposed less mistakes - Therefore they were a bit better than the HE1 but still pretty horrible due to the brightness, harshness, lack of bass impact and body to the sound.

The good:
Light and comfortable
Good with glasses.
Ok detail retrieval.

The bad:
too bright
weak bass impact
they sound thin and light without a sense of power.
Can sound distant and metallic.

3. Focal Utopia -

Spoiler: Utopia

They are very comfortable and airy.
Good build quality but feel a bit awkward when you hold them.
Low clamp force and good with glasses.

Deaf among the blind

The guitar at the start seems closer, Has more focus on it (which I like!)
The guitar is nicely detailed

The growl isn't that clear but there is good detail and separation in the drums.

The bass impact is nearly nonexistent.
Larger soundstage and overall sense of space.
Better details than the HE1 and the susvara in the drums and guitars, The dialogue doesn't sound far anymore.
The sound is less metallic.
There is a very good balance between the dialogue and the rest of the song (nothing obscures each other).
At 02:17 the snares are clear.
At 02:25 the snares and drums are clear.

At the guitar solo at 03:23 there was a really nice focus on the guitar while the drums were still very detailed.
The separation between the different instruments were very good.

The synths at 04:07 lost a bit of detail but were still clear.
The drums from 04:20 forward had good detail which I really liked.
The fast drums at 04:42 were really unclear and undefined.

If only they had good bass impact they could have been my totl headphone.


The good:
Very comfortable with low clamp force.
good with glasses.
Really really good detail retrieval while keeping good balance between instruments and dialogue.

The bad:
Bass impact is non-existent and hardly felt.

4. Meze Empyrean -

Spoiler: Empyrean

In terms of weight they were pretty light.

Good build quality, They feel good in your hands.

The clamp force was higher than the utopia and the previous headphones.

Not the best for glasses.

There is much more bass quantity than the utopia and the susvara and the HE1 however it sounded muddy and not that clear and defined.

There is more impact which I like but like I said the definition is low.

Dialogue was ok (not very metallic and fairly natural), But it wasn't forward and in the back.

The snares at 01:50 are very clear.
the snares at 02:07 are again clear and detailed.
The snares at 02:26 are clear once again.
The drums at 02:34 are quite detailed.
The dialogue is a bit metallic, Again, In terms of detail and cleanliness it's ok, But it's behind the rest of the song and not in the front - It is swallowed by the rest of the song.

They don't sound real - The bass is muddy and bloated and a kind of thick layer on them.

The synths were ok.

At 04:20 the drums had a good sense of body and impact but sounded muddy (like there was some kind of veil on them hiding the definition and the details).

The fast leg drums were still unclear but sounded better than the utopia.

Overall they reminded my my LCD-X, If they had better bass definition they could have been really good, They had good details and nice amount of bass, But the muddiness was too much for me.

The good:
Good build quality, They feel premium.
They have more bass quantity and good bass impact for that extra kick of power.
They are detailed and the highs aren't harsh.

The bad:
High clamp force which is not the best for glasses.
Muddiness in the bass that killed it for me.

In the end I tried 14 different headphones on different dacs and amps, The experience was incredible!

I was really curious how you came to all these detailed but sometimes rather negative conclusions about the headphones you mentioned since I know 3 of the 4 well.
So I fired up my gear and listened to that song you used to judge these headphones above on the following headphones:
Focal Utopia, Abyss Diana, Hifiman Susvara, Audeze LCD4Z, Senneheiser HD800(SDR), Stax 009, Hifiman HE1000 and Sony MDR-Z1R.
That should cover a pretty broad range of headphones with a flavor of pretty much everything - from bass cannons to speed and detail kings.

To make a long story short: that main song you used to judge these headphones sounded somewhere between poor and barely listenable, muddy and bass light on all of them. Some worse than others but none even above of what I'd expect from a 100$ headphone.
To what conclusion would that bring me? Maybe all my gear is not up to the task or this song was basically mixed/mastered to be "enjoyed" on beats. Well now I know why you complained about the bass on every headphone you mentioned Yeah that's one of the downsides of TOTL headphones - bad recordings just sounds plain bad.

Using a TOTL headphone on this kind of source material is not exactly recommended - it's like buying a microscope to look at a computer screen from 1990 and then complain that you see too many pixels If that's your source material you probably get happier by spending less.

Edit: I tried the Grado PS500e on that song even though I usually barely use that headphone but it was better than all the TOTL's above ... not awesome and still kind of bass light ... but still better ... maybe try some Grado's?

 

[MachineGunz]

I’ve been to that store. Great experience for sure. In the end which headphone did you go for? Cheers

Indeed a great experience, I can't wait to come and visit in the future, I ended up with the Abyss phi TC with the Chord Hugo TT2

I was really curious how you came to all these detailed but sometimes rather negative conclusions about the headphones you mentioned since I know 3 of the 4 well.
So I fired up my gear and listened to that song you used to judge these headphones above on the following headphones:
Focal Utopia, Abyss Diana, Hifiman Susvara, Audeze LCD4Z, Senneheiser HD800(SDR), Stax 009, Hifiman HE1000 and Sony MDR-Z1R.
That should cover a pretty broad range of headphones with a flavor of pretty much everything - from bass cannons to speed and detail kings.

To make a long story short: that main song you used to judge these headphones sounded somewhere between poor and barely listenable, muddy and bass light on all of them. Some worse than others but none even above of what I'd expect from a 100$ headphone.
To what conclusion would that bring me? Maybe all my gear is not up to the task or this song was basically mixed/mastered to be "enjoyed" on beats. Well now I know why you complained about the bass on every headphone you mentioned Yeah that's one of the downsides of TOTL headphones - bad recordings just sounds plain bad.

Using a TOTL headphone on this kind of source material is not exactly recommended - it's like buying a microscope to look at a computer screen from 1990 and then complain that you see too many pixels If that's your source material you probably get happier by spending less.

Edit: I tried the Grado PS500e on that song even though I usually barely use that headphone but it was better than all the TOTL's above ... not awesome and still kind of bass light ... but still better ... maybe try some Grado's?

That's an amazing collection you have!

I think a major influence on my impressions was the dac / amplifier I was using to test the headphones - It was the Fidelice Rupert Neve Precision dac.

And I was stupid to not test the headphones with other dacs / amplifiers.

What you said here: "To make a long story short: that main song you used to judge these headphones sounded somewhere between poor and barely listenable, muddy and bass light on all of them. Some worse than others but none even above of what I'd expect from a 100$ headphone."

Is exactly what I felt when listening to the headphones myself.

I am fully aware this is a crappy mastered song that by many people should not be used with TOTL headphones. However that is the music I like to listen to haha

And I need my system to sound exceptionally good with my "crap music" - Most of the songs I listen to have the same level of mastering.

I listen to a lot of metal / electronic music - And metal music is unfortunately not well mastered.

Again I made a stupid mistake to try all of the headphones on the precision dac but I tested the Abyss Phi TC on the Abyss stack and the dave, TT2, And never tried them with the precision dac.

When I got to the Abyss phi TC and heard the song I was shocked because that was exactly what I wanted from a TOTL headphone / sound.

And to explain further (it's me just babbling and explaining what I was looking for in my preferred sound):

I always liked bass and I am a bit of a bass head. While I always appreciated bright / neutral equipment and can really see their appeal and their strengths - I never liked gentle precise sound with little bass.

In 2017 I bought my LCD-X and my home theater system.

I was looking to upgrade my TV to a newer larger model, Then I found out from Z reviews that having a projector is possible. After doing research I bought a projector for my bedroom and turned it into a small home theater.

It was an amazing visual experience to have a 100 inch screen in my room, However the sound from my speakers at the time (Harman Kardon Soundsticks III) could not match the cinematic experience the projector gave me. So after doing more research I bought my home theater system (svs prime satelite system - 5 prime satelites and 1 sb 1000 subwoofer) - It was an amazing shocking experience for me to have this sound in my room.

With having a decent subwoofer I noticed that I really enjoy the powerful chest punching thumping bass, And I found myself using the headphones less and less (together with a problem I had with the LCD-X which was the fazor touching my right ear and causing extreme physical pain) - So my preference to the physical bass of the subwoofer + the fact that the LCD-X were painful to use caused me to use them less and less.

Then in 2020 I purchased the carbon fiber for my LCD-X which almost completely fixed the issue with the fazor hurting my ear, And I started to use the LCD-X more and more and really appreciated how much more detailed they were from my speaker system - But I still wanted to have that physical bass from my subwoofer in my headphones.

I knew that the LCD-X are not TOTL and that I can reach possibly much greater levels of sound quality so my search for the best system began.

To explain what I mean by physical bass - It's very easy to understand if you have a subwoofer.

It's like the effect of a movie theater - When you hear an explosion in a movie theater and everything shakes and vibrates and you feel the sound waves going through your body. The feeling of being at a live concert and feeling the bass from the speakers, Or being in a dance club and feeling the bass moving through your whole body.

That's the kind of bass that unfortunately headphones cannot do. Headphones can play down to 20hz just like subwoofers, The can be very strong and deep and detailed and layered, But from any headphones I heard - It was impossible for the bass to be physically felt, Because headphone drivers are just not able to push a lot of air to your ears and make you feel the bass like a subwoofer does when he fills the room with bass.

The LCD-X and LCD-4, Orpheus, and any other TOTL can have amazing bass - It's just not physical.

So when I tried the Abyss phi TC with the song deaf among the blind

(On the abyss stack - formula s + powerman with the Chord Dave + mscaler) And also on the TT2 alone.

I was shocked because I finally found what I was looking for.

First of all the bass was PHYSICAL, Every drum that is playing is felt, It has a body and weight and is physical.

For me that is a revolution and the strongest point of the Phi TC above any other headphone.

Together with this amazing punchy physical bass I also got extreme levels of detail and separation.

After testing some other songs from: Orden Ogan, Brothers of metal, Sabaton and more.... - All bands I listen to a lot, I found out that I liked how all of the songs sounded.

So now I have the Abyss Phi TC with the Chord Hugo TT2, And hopefully in the future I can add a TOTL amplifier to complete the system.

It's the closest to my perfect sound - Still not perfect, But very close to it.

 

[paradoxper]

You made the wise choice with the 1266 TC.

 

[cmarsili]

Indeed a great experience, I can't wait to come and visit in the future, I ended up with the Abyss phi TC with the Chord Hugo TT2

That's an amazing collection you have!

I think a major influence on my impressions was the dac / amplifier I was using to test the headphones - It was the Fidelice Rupert Neve Precision dac.

And I was stupid to not test the headphones with other dacs / amplifiers.

What you said here: "To make a long story short: that main song you used to judge these headphones sounded somewhere between poor and barely listenable, muddy and bass light on all of them. Some worse than others but none even above of what I'd expect from a 100$ headphone."

Is exactly what I felt when listening to the headphones myself.

I am fully aware this is a crappy mastered song that by many people should not be used with TOTL headphones. However that is the music I like to listen to haha

And I need my system to sound exceptionally good with my "crap music" - Most of the songs I listen to have the same level of mastering.

I listen to a lot of metal / electronic music - And metal music is unfortunately not well mastered.

Again I made a stupid mistake to try all of the headphones on the precision dac but I tested the Abyss Phi TC on the Abyss stack and the dave, TT2, And never tried them with the precision dac.

When I got to the Abyss phi TC and heard the song I was shocked because that was exactly what I wanted from a TOTL headphone / sound.

And to explain further (it's me just babbling and explaining what I was looking for in my preferred sound):

I always liked bass and I am a bit of a bass head. While I always appreciated bright / neutral equipment and can really see their appeal and their strengths - I never liked gentle precise sound with little bass.

In 2017 I bought my LCD-X and my home theater system.

I was looking to upgrade my TV to a newer larger model, Then I found out from Z reviews that having a projector is possible. After doing research I bought a projector for my bedroom and turned it into a small home theater.

It was an amazing visual experience to have a 100 inch screen in my room, However the sound from my speakers at the time (Harman Kardon Soundsticks III) could not match the cinematic experience the projector gave me. So after doing more research I bought my home theater system (svs prime satelite system - 5 prime satelites and 1 sb 1000 subwoofer) - It was an amazing shocking experience for me to have this sound in my room.

With having a decent subwoofer I noticed that I really enjoy the powerful chest punching thumping bass, And I found myself using the headphones less and less (together with a problem I had with the LCD-X which was the fazor touching my right ear and causing extreme physical pain) - So my preference to the physical bass of the subwoofer + the fact that the LCD-X were painful to use caused me to use them less and less.

Then in 2020 I purchased the carbon fiber for my LCD-X which almost completely fixed the issue with the fazor hurting my ear, And I started to use the LCD-X more and more and really appreciated how much more detailed they were from my speaker system - But I still wanted to have that physical bass from my subwoofer in my headphones.

I knew that the LCD-X are not TOTL and that I can reach possibly much greater levels of sound quality so my search for the best system began.

To explain what I mean by physical bass - It's very easy to understand if you have a subwoofer.

It's like the effect of a movie theater - When you hear an explosion in a movie theater and everything shakes and vibrates and you feel the sound waves going through your body. The feeling of being at a live concert and feeling the bass from the speakers, Or being in a dance club and feeling the bass moving through your whole body.

That's the kind of bass that unfortunately headphones cannot do. Headphones can play down to 20hz just like subwoofers, The can be very strong and deep and detailed and layered, But from any headphones I heard - It was impossible for the bass to be physically felt, Because headphone drivers are just not able to push a lot of air to your ears and make you feel the bass like a subwoofer does when he fills the room with bass.

The LCD-X and LCD-4, Orpheus, and any other TOTL can have amazing bass - It's just not physical.

So when I tried the Abyss phi TC with the song deaf among the blind

(On the abyss stack - formula s + powerman with the Chord Dave + mscaler) And also on the TT2 alone.

I was shocked because I finally found what I was looking for.

First of all the bass was PHYSICAL, Every drum that is playing is felt, It has a body and weight and is physical.

For me that is a revolution and the strongest point of the Phi TC above any other headphone.

Together with this amazing punchy physical bass I also got extreme levels of detail and separation.

After testing some other songs from: Orden Ogan, Brothers of metal, Sabaton and more.... - All bands I listen to a lot, I found out that I liked how all of the songs sounded.

So now I have the Abyss Phi TC with the Chord Hugo TT2, And hopefully in the future I can add a TOTL amplifier to complete the system.

It's the closest to my perfect sound - Still not perfect, But very close to it.

I have very similar taste and idea what the bass should feel like. I tried the abyss and I'm hooked. Specially after PEQ. Heavily match. Covers all genres for me. Too bad I have to wait 9 weeks for restock.