[hikaru12]

Is this DAC more detailed than the Bifrost 2? I'm trying to avoid "balanced sounds better" DACs because I plan on pairing it with a SE tube amp. Anything around the MidFi category seems to have that issue - Gumby, Benchmark, etc.

 

[sajunky]

Is this DAC more detailed than the Bifrost 2? I'm trying to avoid "balanced sounds better" DACs because I plan on pairing it with a SE tube amp. Anything around the MidFi category seems to have that issue - Gumby, Benchmark, etc.

It has lot of details, but when comparing to R2R DAC like Bifrost these details are simplified. It doesn’t matter if your music is synthesized, but it shows when playing acoustic instruments that a texture is lost. You need that texture for long listening sessions, otherwise there is no pleasure. For a tube amp get R2R DAC. Bifrost is the cheapest in the Schiit offering I would accept. Alternative is Audio GD R2R-11. There is nothing else in the $350 price range. At $850 is R-1 and Denafrips Ares II $750. Not much more in MidFi range.

 

[hikaru12]

It has lot of details, but when comparing to R2R DAC like Bifrost these details are simplified. It doesn’t matter if your music is synthesized, but it shows when playing acoustic instruments that a texture is lost. You need that texture for long listening sessions, otherwise there is no pleasure. For a tube amp get R2R DAC. Bifrost is the cheapest in the Schiit offering I would accept. Alternative is Audio GD R2R-11. There is nothing else in the $350 price range. At $850 is R-1 and Denafrips Ares II $750. Not much more in MidFi range.

Wouldn’t the Ares or an R2R be too warm with a tube amp? I’m thinking a Qutest might be the step above the Bifrost.

 

[sajunky]

Wouldn’t the Ares or an R2R be too warm with a tube amp? I’m thinking a Qutest might be the step above the Bifrost.

I see Bifrost and THX789 in your gear. The amp is wasting lot of texture and timbre that comes out from Bifrost. If you didn't notice that, perhaps your music preference don't give you a lot of exposure to a natural sound. In such case Ares would not help too.

You see, your amp is wrong, but it is difficult to me to guess what would be result of replacing 789. This sound is described as a sterile dark, nor carrying emotions. It works the best with DS converters. For Bifrost the Asqard 3 would be the best pairing, SS class A in general, I would try tube as well. This is a digression, but it may lead to the point.

However the question was about Qutest. I think with your amp you should try Mojo or Qutest. Mojo fits the right segment perfectly and everything above Mojo is overhyped and the step in the wrong direction. All Chord DACs are Delta-Sigma after all hype.

As for Ares, it is a step above Bifrost, it gives a neutral sound. The most possible neutral sound, due to the lack of active buffers. This is the active amplification stage that gives a warmth. Passive output do not colour the sound. It is a reason I made these comments above. A trade off is that you must pair Ares with right cables and the amp of the standard impedance 47k Ohms (100k for balanced output). Audio GD DACs use a specially designed ACSS link for I/V conversion and class A non-feedback amplifier for the output buffer. This design gives consistent house of sound across the entire range of products. It is characterized as neutral, slightly on the warm scale. It will pair with tube amp very well.

 

[Arniesb]

I see Bifrost and THX789 in your gear. The amp is wasting lot of texture and timbre that comes out from Bifrost. If you didn't notice that, perhaps your music preference don't give you a lot of exposure to a natural sound. In such case Ares would not help too.

You see, your amp is wrong, but it is difficult to me to guess what would be result of replacing 789. This sound is described as a sterile dark, nor carrying emotions. It works the best with DS converters. For Bifrost the Asqard 3 would be the best pairing, SS class A in general, I would try tube as well. This is a digression, but it may lead to the point.

However the question was about Qutest. I think with your amp you should try Mojo or Qutest. Mojo fits the right segment perfectly and everything above Mojo is overhyped and the step in the wrong direction. All Chord DACs are Delta-Sigma after all hype.

As for Ares, it is a step above Bifrost, it gives a neutral sound. The most possible neutral sound, due to the lack of active buffers. This is the active amplification stage that gives a warmth. Passive output do not colour the sound. It is a reason I made these comments above. A trade off is that you must pair Ares with right cables and the amp of the standard impedance 47k Ohms (100k for balanced output). Audio GD DACs use a specially designed ACSS link for I/V conversion and class A non-feedback amplifier for the output buffer. This design gives consistent house of sound across the entire range of products. It is characterized as neutral, slightly on the warm scale. It will pair with tube amp very well.

Other way around. Bifrost is nothing to write a home about. D90 beat it, Qutest beat it more so and Matrix x sabre destroys it.
Class a amps and old r2r dacs are not linear, because of obvious reasons and thats why they sound warmer and Delta sigma dacs or amps with feed forward error correction sound faster, leaner, more transparent or colorless.
I would get a great source and wont worry about stuff that adds coloration to compensate headphones FR or Source harshness.

 

[gryffe]

I read a review that lists one of the cons of D90 as " RCA out uses only half the DAC"

Could someone please explain that in simple terms, and how much of a "con" is this?

I am using RCA out from the D90 DAC to my amp. Is the reviewer implying that using XLR out would use the whole DAC, and does this improve sound quality?
My amp does not have XLR inputs, could I use a cable that was XLR out at the DAC end, and RCA inputs at the amp end?

 

[sajunky]

I read a review that lists one of the cons of D90 as " RCA out uses only half the DAC"

Could someone please explain that in simple terms, and how much of a "con" is this?

I am using RCA out from the D90 DAC to my amp. Is the reviewer implying that using XLR out would use the whole DAC, and does this improve sound quality?
My amp does not have XLR inputs, could I use a cable that was XLR out at the DAC end, and RCA inputs at the amp end?

Possible, but I wonder... If is it so simple, why it hasn't been done on D90?

 

[viggen]

I read a review that lists one of the cons of D90 as " RCA out uses only half the DAC"

Could someone please explain that in simple terms, and how much of a "con" is this?

I am using RCA out from the D90 DAC to my amp. Is the reviewer implying that using XLR out would use the whole DAC, and does this improve sound quality?
My amp does not have XLR inputs, could I use a cable that was XLR out at the DAC end, and RCA inputs at the amp end?

balanced device usually has balanced topology which is not fully utilized when using rca. and, rca's output is about half has much as the xlr's output. so, maybe the review is referring to one of these. however i wouldn't sweat it.

my amp also only has single ended inputs. but, i did get an xlr to rca adapter so to use D90's xlr output. the sound did improve a slight bit. slightly more dynamic. but, since rearranging my listening area a bit, i am not motivated enough to re-install the xlr adapter. the difference is minimal.

btw, this is the adapter i got:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07WWVCXPC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[gryffe]

Thanks for replies so far. Viggen, I think you are correct, no point in sweating it!

 

[sajunky]

balanced device usually has balanced topology which is not fully utilized when using rca. and, rca's output is about half has much as the xlr's output. so, maybe the review is referring to one of these. however i wouldn't sweat it.

It it said half of voltage, it is normal.

But it is said "RCA out uses only half the DAC", it is something wrong in the statement or in design. It can be true if both outputs RCA and XLR can not be used in the same time, but is not conclusive. Perhaps this statement needs more clarification from the reviewer.

 

[shafat777]

You can use the D90 with the rca and xlr out at the same time. Heres no issue or sound degradation when using both outputs at the same time. Speaking from experience

 

[TheMiddleSky]

I’m currently using the dac of Sr15 with a90. (Connect with 3.5mm to rca cable) I steam music with tidal and Spotify app from my SR15. If I upgrade to D90 dac how much would the sound quality inprove? Would I also still be able to connect my SR15 to the d90 through 3.5mm to rca cable and steam music from the SR15? As I don’t want to connect my pc to the d90 as another setup is already connected and being used with the pc.

thanks for all help in advance

D90 would be a significant upgrade over your SR15.

To connect, you need an USB cable, from USB Micro (for SR15) to USB B (for D90). Then D90 with XLR or RCA cable to A90.

 

[]eep]

I read a review that lists one of the cons of D90 as " RCA out uses only half the DAC"

Could someone please explain that in simple terms, and how much of a "con" is this?

I am using RCA out from the D90 DAC to my amp. Is the reviewer implying that using XLR out would use the whole DAC, and does this improve sound quality?
My amp does not have XLR inputs, could I use a cable that was XLR out at the DAC end, and RCA inputs at the amp end?

I'm seeing lot of opinions on this thread without any effort to back it up with sources or information. Just throwing in opinions as facts (especially when they are really false or half truths) isn't especially helpful. This doesn't pertain to your question or the answers to it but i just had to get this off my chest. Always those halfbaked 'experts' without ears... Sorry for the OT but i just had to vent that.

So what does that mean: 'RCA only use half the dac'? It's like saying you only use half your cars... You can only use one at a time. Balanced means your output is going out to 1 pin, the + and an inverted signal is going out on pin 2,the -, and then there's a ground pin that does nothing for carrying the signal, only shield or connect ground to the other device. So if there's 2V on the + and - 2V on the - thats 4V total max amplitude swing. RCA only has 1 centre pin that carries the + signal with 2V. The ground ring is used as common ground and closes the loop. So XLR can supply 6dB more electrical signal, and theres the trick that outside interference on the cable cancel eachother out.

Now where's the 'con'? It sounds like 'not using half the dac' is really bad; like only getting 8bit.But this is a very misleading statement. Because the other half is doing the exact same thing, only inverted. The only missed advantage is that the minute differences between dac line + and - (if a dac is internally truly double balanced and not just inverts the signal for xlr - ) cancel eachother out. Just like interference on long runs of cable. Only... that would be interesting if thete would be considerable tolerences between samples. But isn't the output of the AK4499 already perfect? - 140dB distortion... so what are you going to win there? So only in theory does it improve soundquality. Oh, and of course according to the marketing department that is trying to sell you stuff.

Most (consumer or hifi) amps don't have balanced inputs because it's not of much use and not cost effective. At home you don't have 100" cable runs. If you use an adapter or cable that is xlr on one end and rca on the other all you do is disconnect the - pin and toss all the effort of double circuits away.

In my opinion it is smarter to use your money to to use better components to keep more music information in that signal. Produce a signal as pure as possible and try to keep that. Other than use the double force attack using lesser components that lose more information and fight cable interference on runs of 2". The former more refined system will be better scalable with bettervamp, speakers/hp etc. The latter doesn't scale as well because information lost in the process of defense against cable loss is already lost in the process and can never be retrieved. Unless it's the same circuit as the former only in double barrel at double the cost.

So is balanced overrated? No, you just need to know where's it's useful. It's a good trick but it's not a substitute for quality. The same goes for the whole DS vs R2R controversy. DS is a good trick but it's not a substitute for quality multibit or R2R

 

[silent-circuit]

...I installed the Topping 5.0.0 driver and it made the D90 stop working completely. Basically killed it -- machine doesn't see it at all. Topping software doesn't see it. Uninstalling the driver doesn't restore functionality. Please help. I have an open thread in "help and recommendations" as well.

 

[JHern]

I have been using a Topping D90 (MQA version) for about a week now, and I still need more time before I can make a final decision about this DAC and its value. It certainly ticks many boxes in terms of functionality/features. But I have to hear it through many different familiar sources before I can really judge it appropriately.

So far I'm quite impressed by the implementation of the AKM flagship chip at this price point (hopefully they get the factory going again soon). Topping seems to have kept costs as low as possible while still delivering a solid piece of electronics (time will ultimately tell just how robust it is). There are trade-offs, but so far it looks as if those trade-offs are reasonable. Tear-downs of the D90 show solid components in the places where they need to be.

My ears are sensitive to very high frequencies, and for me various DACs really only differ in the highs. As a physicist, this makes sense, reconstructing low frequencies from a much higher frequency digital signal should be much easier than massaging the highs around Nyquist. When people talk about the "tight bass" or "upfront mids" and such for a DAC, I can't help but think that it has more to do with other pieces in their chain...or how those pieces work together with the DAC, which is non-linear, but we know that "pairing" is important and so by default we know that we live in a non-linear space with audio components.

Anyways, I've been playing with the various filters on the D90, and at least for me they make a big difference. It isn't subtle at all. But then again, I will recoil in severe ear pain at high pitched squeals that are inaudible to others (this isn't necessarily a good thing, since most people don't take care to regulate the volume those pitches).

So I was listening to a Tidal stream that started with Pat Metheny's latest album (very nice!) but ran off on a stream of consciousness to a bunch of other random tracks, and I had filter 1 selected on the D90 (it is the sharpest and most analytical around 20kHz). There was a tune that had a super high frequency resonance bell ring, and it really got to my ears. This doesn't often happen with other DACs, and I was impressed, as well as disturbed, this was one of the first times I've had that happen through a virtual audio source. Is it the Tidal track? The MQA compression/folding (I'm skeptical of this format, but it could have some weird artifacts)? I don't know. I'll have to keep listening and comparing. But I hope that Topping can come up with some more filters, via a firmware update, giving us more options. Or is it limited by the chip? I don't know.

Anyways, one day I'll write a full review, but for now I'm just enjoying the exploration of this new generation of DACs, in the past couple years it seems like things have really gone up a notch, but at the same time there is still no universal solution to deal with the highs and the roll-off. This seems to be where the game is at, now.