[Gr33d]

Many thanks for taking the time to help me out, appreciated!

I read about the three MQA statuses on the D90 per this message (including OFS):

MQA = not approved/watermarked by studio (e.g. = Norah Jone's Not Too Late album on Tidal)
MQA . = approved by studio and has the blue watermark (e.g. Coldplay's X&Y album)
OFS = D90 is acting as a renderer and not as core decoder

I have an Apple CCK cable out from the iPhone and connect it to the D90 via a USB-A to USB-B. I have a Tidal HiFi account and play the above Masters album but still only get "OFS" status on the display. Please see picture of the display when playing a song of the Coldplay X&Y Masters album per the above post.

 

[Taz777]

@Gr33d I've just played some tracks from that album on my MQA DAP (Cayin N6ii) and I get a sample rate of 352.8kHz, so it's definitely fully unfolding and, hence, it's not an issue with TIDAL's servers.

The MQA D90 should act as a full decoder. Therefore, you need to ensure that the TIDAL app on your iPhone isn't doing the first unfold, as that may cause the MQA D90 to act as a renderer. This seems to make sense from the display panel. 192kHz seems to suggest that the TIDAL app on your iPhone is doing the first unfold and then the MQA D90 acts as a renderer only and does one unfold.

So the flow could be as follows:

Song on TIDAL sample rate: 48kHz

TIDAL app on iPhone does first unfold: 96kHz

MQA D90 acts as a renderer and does one unfold: 192kHz

That's my theory. I suspect that the iOS TIDAL app is not allowing 'passthrough' to the D90 and is always doing the first unfold. In fact, I cannot see an option for passthrough in the settings menu of the TIDAL app on iOS. There's some discussion here around this:

https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/tidal-ios-app-settings-to-get-mqa-not-mqb-purple.1016809/

It might be worth asking on the TIDAL forum on here too:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tidal-masters-mqa-thread.838888/

I suspect the issue is the TIDAL app on iOS lacking passthrough. If you have a Mac then you can install the TIDAL app on it and set Passthrough to your MQA DAC and that should allow the D90 to do all three unfolds. You can do this on a Windows computer too but it's a simple plug and play as you have to download and install drivers, etc.

 

[Gr33d]

Thank you very much for all your help, I will try running it of my desktop setup instead and see if this sorts it out!

 

[Taz777]

Thank you very much for all your help, I will try running it of my desktop setup instead and see if this sorts it out!

No worries. In the desktop app (this is for the macOS TIDAL desktop app, but the Windows one should be very similar), to locate the correct settings to passthrough to your MQA D90, do the following (make sure you MQA D90 DAC is connected via USB to your computer and powered on first):

1. Click on your name in the top left of the TIDAL app window;

2. Select Settings;

3. Click on the Streaming tab;

4. Scroll down and find the Sound section. Your MQA D90 may already be selected. If not, select it from the drop-down list;

5. Click on (More settings);

6. Select/enable all three settings: Use Exclusive Mode, Force volume and Passthrough MQA;

7. Then back out all the way and search for a Masters album and play a song from it. You should get the MQA D90 doing all three MQA unfolds and should see a sample rate of either 352.8kHz or 384kHz - this depends on whether the Masters song is served at 44.1kHz or 48kHz from TIDAL's servers.

Good luck!

 

[Gr33d]

Thanks again, now I get MQA. displayed as expected but sample rate still at 192kHz..

 

[Taz777]

Thanks again, now I get MQA. displayed as expected but sample rate still at 192kHz..

Is this using your computer? If so, have you configured passthrough in the TIDAL app on your computer?

192kHz sample rate means that your D90 is doing a second unfold only, and your TIDAL app is doing the first unfold. The TIDAL app needs to pass the TIDAL datastream straight through to the D90 (i.e. passthrough) for the D90 to act as a full decoder. The only other thing that I can think of is are you on the latest firmware for the MQA D90? There was a firmware update released a few months ago for it.

 

[Gr33d]

Is this using your computer? If so, have you configured passthrough in the TIDAL app on your computer?

192kHz sample rate means that your D90 is doing a second unfold only, and your TIDAL app is doing the first unfold. The TIDAL app needs to pass the TIDAL datastream straight through to the D90 (i.e. passthrough) for the D90 to act as a full decoder. The only other thing that I can think of is are you on the latest firmware for the MQA D90? There was a firmware update released a few months ago for it.

Yes using desktop computer and I have enabled "Passthrough MQA" in Tidal per your instructions per the above. I just installed the latest D90 drivers (from 2021) but perhaps I should have gone with the latest specific D90 MQA update.

Update:..and now I only get "MQA" (I.e. with no ".") And 44.1kHz when playing the same song as before which then was MQA. and 192. Clearly something is off with my computer setup.

@Taz777 thank you for all your help but understand that you have now done all you can for me

 

[sajunky]

Just forget about MQA. It will be better for you and everybody in the music industry. Starting the artists, recording studios and ending on the equipment manufacturers. It is how it is designed to enslave everybody, not to bring better sound quality, but cheating. Numbers on the display means nothing, as it is still a lossy compression. Even worse: A heavily watermarked lossy compression.

Get a good music source and if D90 is not good enough to play ordinary CD sample rate, look around, there are DAC's can do.

 

[Marlowe]

Hi all,
Got the A90 + D90 (MQA) stack here and I am trying to get everything up and running with Tidal MQA (bare with me as I am not very experienced).

Iphone 12 (Tidal Masters) >> USB >> D90 (DAC only) >> XLR >> A90 (HPA) >> 6.5mm output to my Sundaras.

Trying to run MQA from Tidal based on the above setup but only get "OFS" on the D90 screen, shouldn't it say MQA. for instance when playing Coldplay X&Y?

Anyone have any clue what I could be doing wrong?

You may need to make another change in Tidal settings, at least you do in Windows 10. By default, Tidal is set to use it's own software to decode MQA and pass it on to your DAC. In streaming settings under Sound Output (where you select the device to which Tidal sends its signal) select More Settings. Enable the last setting (disabled by default)--Passthrough MQA, which will disable software decoding of MQA. (I apologize if you've already done this. Also, my D90 MQA is connected to a Windows 10 laptop, I don't know if it works or looks different with an Apple device. For example, the Tidal Android app on my phone does not appear to have these setting, but I've never connected it to the D90 and don't have the proper cable to do so.)

BTW, the Topping D90 MQA manual says that OFS confirms that the DAC is receiving a MQA file or stream. I'm really not sure what that means and I have never see OFS on my display. When playing Masters tracks, I have only seen MQA. (with a period) and MQA (no period). The manual definition of these two modes is confusing and I am not sure of the difference between them.

UPDATE: Ack, I see that you got his problem mostly resolved while I was composing this. (I'm slow and was double checking on both the Windows and Android Tidal apps.) I apologize for unnecessarily repeating what others have, but will leave it up in case there is anything of value here.

 

[Taz777]

Yes using desktop computer and I have enabled "Passthrough MQA" in Tidal per your instructions per the above. I just installed the latest D90 drivers (from 2021) but perhaps I should have gone with the latest specific D90 MQA update.

Update:..and now I only get "MQA" (I.e. with no ".") And 44.1kHz when playing the same song as before which then was MQA. and 192. Clearly something is off with my computer setup.

@Taz777 thank you for all your help but understand that you have now done all you can for me

As I understand things, the regular D90 and MQA D90 may need different drivers as they certainly have slight hardware differences. There's also firmware available for the MQA D90 (in addition to the drivers). You should double-check that you are installing drivers and firmware specifically mentioned for the MQA D90.

 

[viggen]

 

[Gr33d]

You may need to make another change in Tidal settings, at least you do in Windows 10. By default, Tidal is set to use it's own software to decode MQA and pass it on to your DAC. In streaming settings under Sound Output (where you select the device to which Tidal sends its signal) select More Settings. Enable the last setting (disabled by default)--Passthrough MQA, which will disable software decoding of MQA. (I apologize if you've already done this. Also, my D90 MQA is connected to a Windows 10 laptop, I don't know if it works or looks different with an Apple device. For example, the Tidal Android app on my phone does not appear to have these setting, but I've never connected it to the D90 and don't have the proper cable to do so.)

BTW, the Topping D90 MQA manual says that OFS confirms that the DAC is receiving a MQA file or stream. I'm really not sure what that means and I have never see OFS on my display. When playing Masters tracks, I have only seen MQA. (with a period) and MQA (no period). The manual definition of these two modes is confusing and I am not sure of the difference between them.

UPDATE: Ack, I see that you got his problem mostly resolved while I was composing this. (I'm slow and was double checking on both the Windows and Android Tidal apps.) I apologize for unnecessarily repeating what others have, but will leave it up in case there is anything of value here.

Thank you for your help, appreciated!

As I understand things, the regular D90 and MQA D90 may need different drivers as they certainly have slight hardware differences. There's also firmware available for the MQA D90 (in addition to the drivers). You should double-check that you are installing drivers and firmware specifically mentioned for the MQA D90.

Thank you again, should have been more clear - I've updated it with the latest D90 MQA firmware and latest D90 drivers (been reading around various forums that states that this driver also works for the D90 MQA even though it would have been prudent by Topping to explicitly state this on their webpage...).

Been trying out Roon now to get a better understanding of the signals path, please see a snapshot as per the below. This has all been a humbling experience but very much appreciate the help I have received here.

 

[Taz777]

...
Been trying out Roon now to get a better understanding of the signals path, please see a snapshot as per the below. This has all been a humbling experience but very much appreciate the help I have received here.

What's interesting is the Source line of your signal path. I have a feeling that something is wrong there. I searched for Politik Coldplay on my Cayin N6ii DAP that (now) has native MQA support. I used the Android TIDAL app. Strangely, I found three Masters tracks of that song. Here are three screenshots that I took when I played each of those Masters tracks. If you look at the top of the screen, it shows the final sample rate after four unfolds (in other words, x 8 of the original source sample rate):

The two 384kHz sample rate tracks suggest a 48kHz TIDAL source rate. The 352.8kHz sample rate image suggests a source rate on TIDAL of 44.1kHz.

If someone else has n MQA D90 then perhaps they could see what's showing on their D90's display for this song? Of course, your equipment could be showing the right thing and mine could be wrong!

Suggested next moves:

1. Check in the TIDAL thread;

2. Check with Topping support.

 

[theveterans]

What's interesting is the Source line of your signal path. I have a feeling that something is wrong there. I searched for Politik Coldplay on my Cayin N6ii DAP that (now) has native MQA support. I used the Android TIDAL app. Strangely, I found three Masters tracks of that song. Here are three screenshots that I took when I played each of those Masters tracks. If you look at the top of the screen, it shows the final sample rate after four unfolds (in other words, x 8 of the original source sample rate):

The two 384kHz sample rate tracks suggest a 48kHz TIDAL source rate. The 352.8kHz sample rate image suggests a source rate on TIDAL of 44.1kHz.

If someone else has n MQA D90 then perhaps they could see what's showing on their D90's display for this song? Of course, your equipment could be showing the right thing and mine could be wrong!

Suggested next moves:

1. Check in the TIDAL thread;

2. Check with Topping support.

192 KHz is the correct final unfold for Coldplay's albums. Your DAP takes the 192 KHz and upsamples them to 384 KHz which is not the correct way of decoding the MQA file.

 

[Taz777]

192 KHz is the correct final unfold for Coldplay's albums. Your DAP takes the 192 KHz and upsamples them to 384 KHz which is not the correct way of decoding the MQA file.

I believe you are right. I've asked on the N6ii thread for clarification about the sample rate displayed. Apologies @Gr33d for taking you down this rabbit hole!

I've just checked on my LG V30 under UAPP and it is showing 192kHz: