Topping D30 DSD DAC XMOS/CS4398

[drteming]

I don't want this to turn into an opamp thing, but I spent the last couple of days critically going back and forth between the OPA2107 and OPA2132.  I did a semi-blind test by taping over the chip, mixing them up, and labeling them A and B.  Keeping my amp at the same volume, I noticed one of them had a little bit less gain, but the bass extended lower with more clarity, resolution, and punch.  The other one was looser, but warm.  The mids and highs were a wash.  When I took off the tape, the OPA2107 was the one with the nice tight bass, and that is the sound I like.  It looks like the OPA2107 is going to permanently reside in the D30.

 

[donkeyxba]

I am a newbie and would appreciate some advices. I was wondering how does it sounds compared with foobar conversion of DSD file to PCM. Could you tell a difference? I am looking to upgrade my JDS labs dac. Do you get more out from an expensive dac or on an amp? Any other native DSD dac out there for under $1000?

 

[drteming]

I am a newbie and would appreciate some advices. I was wondering how does it sounds compared with foobar conversion of DSD file to PCM. Could you tell a difference? I am looking to upgrade my JDS labs dac. Do you get more out from an expensive dac or on an amp? Any other native DSD dac out there for under $1000?

Honestly, I can't reliably tell the difference with any well mastered source material from 44.1Khz/16bit on up. I collect "high resolution" files because generally, there is more care in the mastering, and they are generally taken from the original master tapes rather than generational material. I've played dsd files with Foobar2000 natively and with pcm conversion, and I can't tell the difference. Disclaimer: my gears are considered mid-fi, but so are my ears.

I assume you have an O2 amp/dac. I have an O2 amp, and I love that little box. If I wasn't such a tinkerer, I would be completely happy with it being my only amp. I've never heard the 02 DAC, though, but I understand that it is also excellent.

There's a ton of DSD dac's for under $1000, just look around in this forum. I play around with the lower end stuff because as a realist, I can't fathom spending a ton of money for minimal perceived gain.

 

[donkeyxba]

Thank you for your comment; It will save me a lot of time and money. I have just purchased a used SPL Phonitor Mini from another head-fi member. If my ear cannot pickup any obivous differences to my O2 amp than I have to conclude there is no point in chasing this channel any further. I have the Sennheiser hd650 and a Hifiman He400i atm and will consider to purchase another pair but uncertain whether I should replaced it with the Sennheiser hd800s or the Hifiman He1000 v1 (used). The He400i is very similar to the hd650 but more dynamic (which I like) but lack the sub-bass.

 

[alynx]

In my causal listening tests I couldnt even discern a difference between a dsd 64 file and a 256 kbps aac file. So for me personally everything hi-res is a nice-to have.. but nothing more than that.

 

[donkeyxba]

I agreed that in casual listening tests, it is hard to tell. However, I have decided to do a test my self with an excellent recorded DSF file "So far away" by Dire Straits. With this file, I have converted it to:
1. Flac 24bits at 176400Hz sample rate.
2. AAC with QAAC converted setting it to CVBR at 224 kbps. It produced a file at 48000Hz sample rate.
 
When I played the DSF and AAC file in foobar at random, I could picked the DSF file 80% of the time.
When I played the DSF and Flac file in foobar at random, I could picked the DSF file 70% of the time.
 
I did this by listening to the treble impact coming from the percussion of the becken. The DSF produced a slightly higher impact than the flac. This is much more easier to discern when compared it with the AAC file.
 
So I have concluded that there is a slight difference which explains why I have enjoyed listen to a well recorded DSF file.

 

[drteming]

I agreed that in casual listening tests, it is hard to tell. However, I have decided to do a test my self with an excellent recorded DSF file "So far away" by Dire Straits. With this file, I have converted it to:
1. Flac 24bits at 176400Hz sample rate.
2. AAC with QAAC converted setting it to CVBR at 224 kbps. It produced a file at 48000Hz sample rate.

When I played the DSF and AAC file in foobar at random, I could picked the DSF file 80% of the time.
When I played the DSF and Flac file in foobar at random, I could picked the DSF file 70% of the time.

I did this by listening to the treble impact coming from the percussion of the becken. The DSF produced a slightly higher impact than the flac. This is much more easier to discern when compared it with the AAC file.

So I have concluded that there is a slight difference which explains why I have enjoyed listen to a well recorded DSF file.

Dire Straits BIA may not be the ideal recording to test between DSD/FLAC. The album was recorded on a 16 bit machine at 44.1 KHz. Subsequent remasters were done at a higher bit rate and frequency, but it doesn't change the original material. What you want is an excellent original analog recording like Aja or Hotel California. Boy, this is getting off-topic.

 

[donkeyxba]

I have looked at the Dire Straits's file and the spectral graph indicates it is a 44.1Khz source. There were infrequent remastered spikes go beyond the the 44.1Khz range. I believe what I was able differentiate were these infrequent spikes. Unsurprisingly, I could not tell a difference when I have repeated the test with the Hotel California HDtrack as there were much more spectral spikes above this range but they were so frequent and close together that my ear could not differentiates them.

 

[JMX1]

  I am a newbie and would appreciate some advices. I was wondering how does it sounds compared with foobar conversion of DSD file to PCM. Could you tell a difference? I am looking to upgrade my JDS labs dac. Do you get more out from an expensive dac or on an amp? Any other native DSD dac out there for under $1000?

Hi Donkeyxba
 
I will share my personal experience, most of the time I like to sit and listen to music using tower speakers not headphones, before purchasing the D30 I listened to DSD files doing PCM conversion with foobar, my setup was Sound Blaster Z  line out (Stereo Direct/No Effects/No EQ) > Yamaha AS500 I tried most sampling rates in foobar and I did not like how the DSD files sound, for me the sound was too bright in most cases, then I did the test with the D30 and I could tell a difference,  I enjoy more listening to DSD/ALAC/FLAC files using the D30. For me the Rage Against the Machine SACD/DSD is one of the best sounding SACD I ever hear, I have the vinyl of this album and the SACD just blow away the vinyl playing the album thorugh the D30 did sound way better for me than the PCM conversion, I do not have the CD version of this album for use it as reference, but RATM album is a must if you like this kind of music. Schiller - Leben DSD album for me sounds better on the D30 too, well a lot of albums sound better to me on the D30.
 
In the Yamaha I have the Ipod dock that sounds pretty good, then I played some ALAC albums on the D30 and the D30 sounds ways better. Overall I'm very, very  happy with the D30 as a DAC also the price was unbeatable!
 
Just my two cents.
 
JM

 

[donkeyxba]

Have you got another DAC other than the sound blaster to compare it with the D30?

 

[JMX1]

Have you got another DAC other than the sound blaster to compare it with the D30?

I do not have any other dedicated DAC so I can't compare the D30 to other external DAC, The SB Z with the CS4398 dac chip is the only PC interface tested in my audio setup.

I only got the D30 for the DSD playback capabilities by the way the D30 use the same DAC chip as the SBZ, in the SBZ the DSD pins on the chip are not used so it's impossible to enable native DSD playback with a SBZ.

Regards

 

[erich6]

Does this stream "bitperfect" out up to 192kHz and with DSD?  Looks like great specs and build quality for this price.

 

[drteming]

  Does this stream "bitperfect" out up to 192kHz and with DSD?  Looks like great specs and build quality for this price.

 
You just gotta set up Foobar2000  to do so.

 

[erich6]

   
You just gotta set up Foobar2000  to do so.

​OK, thanks! Does the XMOS driver support ASIO?

 

[drteming]

​OK, thanks! Does the XMOS driver support ASIO?

Yup. Just install the driver and set up Foobar.