[enak]

So what exams are required to get into a good university in the U.S, say top 10?

 

[stuartr]

For top 10, you will want to have somewhere between 1200-1600 on your SAT's, but most important, you will have to write an excellent entrance essay, have excellent grades, a balanced application (good in more than one area), with extracurricular activities. OR, you can be really good at sports, or of an ethnicity/social class that the school desires to build their diversity, or have connections in the school. Basically, it is all a crap shoot. If you are an excellent, well-rounded student, you will get in somewhere, just not necessarily your first choice, or a top 10.

 

[enak]

So even if you're an excellent student that fills all the criteria of satisfying the course entry requirements, you can still fail to get in because of the second option you gave? A little unfair IMO.

I dont think i'll come to the U.S for an undergraduate degree but for an MBA I think I will definately go there. BTW I know the Wharton School is very good and highly rated, but how difficult is it to get in?

 

[stuartr]

Yes, in some ways it is a meritaucracy, but there are other aspects of the process that are out of your control. Whether or not you agree with affirmative action, it is a reality in US college admissions, so all other things being equal, African Americans and Hispanics are highly favored over Asian and especially caucasian Americans. The argument is that they have not had the same opportunities that the white and asian students have had, therefore they should be given preference. This becomes an even greater factor in graduate school, where even fewer minority students traditionally attend. Women too receive preferential status in certain application processes (usually not in undergrad though...). Personally, though I understand its rationale, I am not particularly enthralled with the system -- I feel the best students should get priority regardless of who or what they are...but that's just me.
ANYWAY,
Wharton is very good, and it will be extremely hard to get into, especially as a foreigner. I wish you luck.

edit: Oh, and all of this is trumped if you can throw a football well or play hockey. This is capitalism, and the schools argue that sports generate alumni pride, and therefore alumni donations, so if the soccer/football/hockey/basketball teams are good, then the school makes more money. Usually they will try to find "student-atheletes" people who are both good students and good atheletes, but in many of the biggest state schools, you can have students who are quasi-literate, but still got into the school ahead of some qualified student because they bring in the alumni cash. It's a travesty in my opinion....and I have to teach these kids, it is awful. They are usually quite nice, but they just don't deserve to take the place of truly qualified students.

 

[enak]

I can understand why universities do that, but still I agree with your sentiments.

For university, we are allowed to go on exchange with another foreign university, and Wharton is on the list as one. If I were to go on a semester of exchange, would that increase the probability of myself obtaining a spot there?

 

[Born2bwire]

For a top school... Well for MIT I had to do the SAT's but also had to do SAT II's which delve into more specific topics. I did Physics, Math IIc, and US History. They aren't on the level of AP tests (which are basically college equivalents) but they aren't as rudimentary as the SAT's. I also took AP Calc B/C (two levels to calculus, B/C is the higher of the two corresponding to two - three semesters of calculus, basically your Single Variable Calculus) Physics Mech/E&M (both calculus based), US History, Chemistry, and I think I did another AP but can't remember what it was. I also was among the top of my class, did extracurriculars, yadda yadda yadda. And I still didn't get into MIT (Those jerks!) but I did UIUC. Truth of it was, despite how great my credentials were, I was an average applicant to MIT. Then at UIUC I had to take placement exams (like DanG mentioned) that involved more mathematics, science and (UGH) writing (And screw you stuartr

). So it boils down to that there's a lot more you need to do than the high school requirements if you want to get in a top college but it isn't something that I would consider out of reach to students. My math classes so far are: Single Variable Calculus (was given credit from the AP exams so I didn't have to take this in college), Multivariable Calculus w/ Vector Analysis, Differential Equations and Linear Systems (remember, special topics are you friend), Advanced Calculus, Statistics for ECE, and Linear Algebra. So even if you didn't take Calculus in high school you're not at a real disadvantage as you can take it college with no real consequence.

 

[stuartr]

Quote:

Originally posted by enak For university, we are allowed to go on exchange with another foreign university, and Wharton is on the list as one. If I were to go on a semester of exchange, would that increase the probability of myself obtaining a spot there?

Most certainly. Studying abroad somewhere generally does not require any application process within that university (they have an agreement with your school), so it is not a big deal. If you actually want to enter that univerity as a regular student, it is generally more difficult -- you are required to meet all the criteria of that program, and since there are only so many places for foreign students (you are applying against the rest of the world), it can be more difficult. This is unlike a place like Oxford, where it is relatively easy for foreign students to get in, since they account for a major source of income. Anyway, if you are doing an exchange, you should be fine.

 

[enak]

Quote:

Originally posted by stuartr Most certainly. Studying abroad somewhere generally does not require any application process within that university (they have an agreement with your school), so it is not a big deal. If you actually want to enter that univerity as a regular student, it is generally more difficult -- you are required to meet all the criteria of that program, and since there are only so many places for foreign students (you are applying against the rest of the world), it can be more difficult. This is unlike a place like Oxford, where it is relatively easy for foreign students to get in, since they account for a major source of income. Anyway, if you are doing an exchange, you should be fine.

For the exchange, the competition is only between the students from the university ie, the one I will be attending. For the entry as a regular student, thanks for reminding me that the rest of the world is my competitor

, gets me back to earth. As with Oxford, wouldn't the international fees be more than the local fees as well? Oh well, Wharton is the only Ivy school on the list for exchange

What are the other top five MBA schools in the U.S?

 

[stuartr]

Quote:

Originally posted by enak As with Oxford, wouldn't the international fees be more than the local fees as well? Oh well, Wharton is the only Ivy school on the list for exchange What are the other top five MBA schools in the U.S?

For Oxford, since it is extremely cheap for local students and very expensive for foreign students, it is easier for foreigners to get in. I got in there, but it was not such a big deal. I wound up doing a Fulbright instead, since it would ultimately be better for my resume. Anyway, you will find the business school rankings here: http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/gra...rank_brief.php But rankings are really not the best things to decide where to go to graduate school. Ivy certainly isn't everything. Anyway, it's best to choose based on professors who specialize in what you want to do, and by your preferences -- city vs. country, small school versus big etc.

 

[yidimsum]

Quote:

Originally posted by stuartr For top 10, you will want to have somewhere between 1200-1600 on your SAT's snip

You basically need to hit at least 1400 for a top 10 school. Also it seems like the big three like Harvard, Princeton, and Yale only readily accept students who have national awards or distinction, while other top 10 schools want state level awards/distinction.

Here's a link to the top liberal arts schools

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/col...rtco_brief.php

 

[enak]

Stuart: Thanks for the info.

Yidimsum: I've read somewhere that 1550 wasn't enough for some of the Ivies. What kind of national/state awards are there in the U.S?

 

[yidimsum]

Quote:

Originally posted by enak Yidimsum: I've read somewhere that 1550 wasn't enough for some of the Ivies. What kind of national/state awards are there in the U.S?

National awards could be academic (i.e. Spelling Bee), in music (national or international competitions), or sports. State awards would be down a notch, for music i.e. All-State orchestra or state-level competitions.

The admissions process is all a crap shoot even if you might have the test scores. Seems like a perfect 1600 score is much more common nowadays than several years ago (approximately 3 kids at this Math/Science High School in town got perfect). Even with 1600 and a high G.P.A. it doesn't guarantee anything.

 

[BoyElroy]

Especially at the Ivies, the admissions process can become arbitrary and especially unfair to a great majority of first generation college aspirants. Years ago, I was rejected at a certain Ivy League school that my dad had graduated from. During a followup interview, it turned out that they were not aware of the fact that I was a "legacy" applicant. I was told on the spot that I would now be accepted if I still wanted to go, but by that time I had my mind set on a different school and turned them down.

I am pretty sure that had I chosen to go, I would have taken the place of another "borderline" applicant who did not have the good fortune (in this case) of having a parent attend an Ivy League University.

No matter how you look at it, its a pretty screwed up process.

 

[stuartr]

The reason I put a larger range on the SAT's is because they don't matter as much as you think. You don't even have to turn them in a most schools now. Plus, you may have things that demonstrate different talents, such as 5's on all your AP's, great talent in the arts, music or theater and so forth. Or, perhaps you are skewed...800 verbal and 400 math...the SAT's have diminished in importance in the last 20 years. But anyway, I would prefer (and did) go to one of the top liberal arts colleges over an Ivy, because you get more personal attention as an undergraduate. The biggest class I was ever in had about 50 students, and that was a chemistry lecture. My average class size was 8-15, with many smaller than that. Add this with excellent professors and you get an education that is better than what 90 percent of the students at Ivies get, where they are responsible for creating student-teacher interaction where it is normally absent. Also, you cannot really get away with not doing your work/going to class etc at a small liberal arts college (unless you want to fail), which is unlike a big state school or Ivy where you are just another face in the crowd. All this of course only applies to undergrad...graduate level is a whole new ballgame. Ohh, forgot. Even though I am a TA, I can say that another advantage of liberal arts schools is that you usually don't have to deal with people like me. Professors teach all the classes and discussion sections, so the teaching is generally at a higher standard....(but I've got to learn somewhere, right? I hope the students of UCSB don't mind...)

 

[enak]

Damn, this is looking tough to get it!