[dgbiker1]

I came across a surprising situation this weekend. I took an ill-advised (very busy week), but much needed break this weekend to go back home. I brought along my new-ish K701s for my father to audition, seeing as he's responsible for my obsession. He loved them

Sunday night I brought the whole kit back to my girlfriend's condo and had her listen to the K701s and LD MKIII. Her reaction surprised me- but actually made sense. She was very fatigued within minutes because of the large soundstage

As she explained it, it was very strange to feel something on the ear, but having the sound coming from "far away" when she expected it to be on the ear. Does anyone else experience this?

When I think about it, it seems like a similar situation to people that get car sick with their vestibular and optical systems sending conflicting information. Or maybe she just needs to get used to decent headphones

 

[Don Quichotte]

A situation one can easily adapt to, IMO. I guess nobody who wears glasses is expecting to see all the things very close to the top of the nose where he feels the weight of the glasses.

 

[Rednamalas1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgbiker1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I came across a surprising situation this weekend. I took an ill-advised (very busy week), but much needed break this weekend to go back home. I brought along my new-ish K701s for my father to audition, seeing as he's responsible for my obsession. He loved them Sunday night I brought the whole kit back to my girlfriend's condo and had her listen to the K701s and LD MKIII. Her reaction surprised me- but actually made sense. She was very fatigued within minutes because of the large soundstage As she explained it, it was very strange to feel something on the ear, but having the sound coming from "far away" when she expected it to be on the ear. Does anyone else experience this? When I think about it, it seems like a similar situation to people that get car sick with their vestibular and optical systems sending conflicting information. Or maybe she just needs to get used to decent headphones

I don't think large soundstage is fatiguing - amount of detail present in K701 may be, though - information overload! Huge soundstage (K701, K501) can make you feel less involved in music and isn't very good for heavy rock/metal sometimes.

It's better to have complementary headphones for different genres - K701 and SR325i are a great combo

 

[Mindless]

Quite the contrary for me - I can't listen to headphones with a narrow soundstage. It feels too narrow. Good soundstage makes the music live, lack thereof makes it sound artificial.

To me, the whole point of headphones is to recreate the speaker experience (soundstage) but without disturbing others in the house.

 

[Rednamalas1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindless /img/forum/go_quote.gif Quite the contrary for me - I can't listen to headphones with a narrow soundstage. It feels too narrow. Good soundstage makes the music live, lack thereof makes it sound artificial. To me, the whole point of headphones is to recreate the speaker experience (soundstage) but without disturbing others in the house.

Hmm I have to disagree with 2nd statement there. I like speakers for their bass presentation and "realness" but I also prefer that instrument separation that only headphones are capable of.
Especially when listening to rock (something that is very involving) large soundstage actually makes music seem distant and uninvolving. I like grado's signiture for rock only because it's very forward and "in your head", something that makes you air-guitar and head-bang.

When listening to classical, jazz, blues, I like being able to focus on different layers of instrument and point out exactly where every note is - therefore I like analytical aspect of K701 - being very neutral.

I'm not trying to start an argument here, but my own opinion on few things - and to OP - sorry for jacking the thread

I personally can't stand HD650/HD600 due to its overly bassy presentation and its slowness - HD650/600 has often been mentioned as more "speaker-like" headphones.

I also don't see headphones as inferior substitute to speakers just because they're generally cheaper, but a device which presents different vantage point for enjoying music.

 

[DarKu]

Rednamalas1 GREAT POST!

i think i will stick with my grados for rock and metal music

 

[johnnydrz]

Hi everyone, I don't know if this has ever been discussed here, but if you want to experience something different when soundstage is being discussed, try listening to binaural recordings. The latest from Ottmar Liebert "The Fritz Files" is all in binaural. If you want a taste of it, try this link:
Humble Voice // Video // Snakecharmer-Binaural by Ottmar Liebert

Binaural is great for any type of "live" recording. Unfortunately not almost ignored so far.

Johnnydrz

 

[Beav]

Johnny,

I've been trying to find some binaural recordings on CD but so far I've only found classical recordings, which are not my cup of tea. Does Ottmar have a cd release of this music on binaural?

 

[egokun]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgbiker1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif She was very fatigued within minutes because of the large soundstage As she explained it, it was very strange to feel something on the ear, but having the sound coming from "far away" when she expected it to be on the ear. Does anyone else experience this?

To a certain degree, I do. Please note that I don't have that much experience regarding headphones, and the K701 is my first serious HP.
I think that the soundstage of the K701 is probably its most controversial feature, as far as I'm concerned. It's something I'd really like to be able to turn off at times, and it's the reason I felt the need to try something different (the ATH-AD2000, to be specific). The K701 really makes me feel distant from the music, there is a bit too much air between my ears and the music. This can be partially solved by turning up the volume, but unfortunately, the K701's treble is very fatiguing, when not just painful, for me at such volumes. OTOH, the airiness of the K701 is a nice thing when I have to concentrate on something else when I'm listening to music, because the sound comes from such a distance that I'm not distracted by it. But if I just want to sit down and enjoy the music, I find it difficult to do that with the K701: my ears try to "get closer" to the sound, and yes, it can be fatiguing, albeit only at times.

Funny thing is, I've had the K701 long enough that their enormous soundstage has become the standard for my ears. Whenever I put on the AD2000, for a couple of minutes I always feel that they have no soundstage at all, because my brain expects that airiness that this phone doesn't provide. But I have to say that for me, the AD2000 is much more involving than the K701, which I find more relaxing.

 

[Mindless]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rednamalas1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hmm I have to disagree with 2nd statement there.

Hence the to me-part

 

[edstrelow]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dgbiker1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif . She was very fatigued within minutes because of the large soundstage As she explained it, it was very strange to feel something on the ear, but having the sound coming from "far away" when she expected it to be on the ear. Does anyone else experience this? When I think about it, it seems like a similar situation to people that get car sick with their vestibular and optical systems sending conflicting information. Or maybe she just needs to get used to decent headphones

It sounds like she is uncomfortable with "externalization" i.e. the ability of phones to make the sounds appear to be coming from out in space rather than in the head. However most people want externalization and it is an unattainable "holy grail" of audio reproduction. You get something like this with binaural recordings.

Doe she listen to headphones much? Possibly she is just bothered by headphones. I seem to see people, usually older who just don't like them . My wife is like that, but my kids have grown up with phones and like me do most of their listening that way.

 

[hiccamer]

I have to agree with the folks who point out that large soundstage is nice for certain things and not others. I, like a couple of posters in this thread, love to listen to Grado/Alessandro HP's for rock music. It took my a while to get used to the soundstage of the DT770 when I first got them, and while I am in love with them now I will still pick up the grado's first if i am going to listen to some Rawk!

BTW-- I think she would quickly get comfortable with the soundstage if she listened...

 

[ethebull]

One common theme here and all over this site - the use of different headphones for different genre of music. Or this amp works for classical better than rock, or what’s the best speaker for… etc.

I’ve always strived to buy products that satisfy and deliver for everything. Outstanding headphones are far more affordable than speakers, so I can understand multiple pair ownership. Changing things up offers variety and I guess adds to the fun factor for many. But for me, I’ll invested my time and money to carefully purchase complementary products and build a system to my satisfaction - creating my personal reference system.

Sound production preferences and quality in the 2000 CD’s and LP’s I own encompasses the full spectrum from dreadful to spectacular. I’ve heard many “audiophile” products that leave me cold. Ultra revealing components can lead to listening fatigue and render poorly recorded old favorites un-listenable. I find having one or two tube components in the chain helps avoid hyperdetailstereophileitis.

Taking the all purpose approach some will say results in a jack of all trades master of none package. Frankly, that’s exactly what I seek. A neutral system that lets me experience the differences in recording technique, variety in sound stage presented, depth, brightness, etc.

 

[johnnydrz]

Hi Beav, the CD from Ottmar is called "The Fritz Files". You can buy it (download) from his website. It's all binaural. You can also find many other cd's from the www.binaural.com site. It has some links to some resources.

I personally have "Living Air" by Peter Acker which is probably the best nature sounds CD.

There just simply isn't enough binaural stuff out there...

Johnnydrz

 

[pbirkett]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rednamalas1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hmm I have to disagree with 2nd statement there. I like speakers for their bass presentation and "realness" but I also prefer that instrument separation that only headphones are capable of. Especially when listening to rock (something that is very involving) large soundstage actually makes music seem distant and uninvolving. I like grado's signiture for rock only because it's very forward and "in your head", something that makes you air-guitar and head-bang. When listening to classical, jazz, blues, I like being able to focus on different layers of instrument and point out exactly where every note is - therefore I like analytical aspect of K701 - being very neutral. I'm not trying to start an argument here, but my own opinion on few things - and to OP - sorry for jacking the thread I personally can't stand HD650/HD600 due to its overly bassy presentation and its slowness - HD650/600 has often been mentioned as more "speaker-like" headphones. I also don't see headphones as inferior substitute to speakers just because they're generally cheaper, but a device which presents different vantage point for enjoying music.

Good post...

Personally I dont think any headphones sound like speakers to me, no matter how much they are touted as doing so. As such, I'd rather have the speed and clarity they can offer rather than trying to immitate something its not, and doing it rather badly to my ears (HD650, step right up).