[AndrewF]

After reading a few comments yesterday suggesting SQ was better with the HG setting on the Tomahawk, even with IEM's (I have UM2), I tried it out yesterday. It did sound better- more alive, with better soundstage. I tried to make sure I was keeping the volume level the same, but it's pretty hard to r/o a placebo effect, or just the effect of more volume. Anyone else experimented with this, maybe in a more objective fashion (db measurement etc)? Why would there be any difference in the SQ? What's accounting for this?

Andrew

 

[Yokosuka Guy]

I did a similar experience with Hornet by setting the gain.
I thought that the SQ of Hornet changed into me depending
on the setting of the gain.

placebo effect?

I'm sorry in strange English.

 

[tnmike1]

let me try it for a couple days with my Portaphile and see. Using Ety4, Vibes and Beyer 880s, so should be interesting with this array of 'phones

 

[TzeYang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndrewF /img/forum/go_quote.gif After reading a few comments yesterday suggesting SQ was better with the HG setting on the Tomahawk, even with IEM's (I have UM2), I tried it out yesterday. It did sound better- more alive, with better soundstage. I tried to make sure I was keeping the volume level the same, but it's pretty hard to r/o a placebo effect, or just the effect of more volume. Anyone else experimented with this, maybe in a more objective fashion (db measurement etc)? Why would there be any difference in the SQ? What's accounting for this? Andrew

higher the gain, the lower the bandwidth, sometimes, also the more stabilize the circuit is.

If the circuit is working very fine, normally, the lower the gain, the better it is. You have a wider bandwidth when the the gain is lower. There's also channel imbalance to consider, but if the gain of each channel is properly match, this should not be a problem.

There should be no SQ difference IMO. It's most probably placebo because gain only affects the voltage multiplication factor. (although it also reduces bandwidth, but i doubt anyone could really hear the difference because the bandwidth is very very wide still) Which means the AB test you did was not accurate enough when you were adjusting the volume.

 

[AndrewF]

Thanks. Intellectually, I feel like it should be just a placebo effect. Obviously, this was not a rigorous A/B test. Any other thoughts? Ray?

Andrew

 

[65535]

Considering the quality and Ray's exceptional effort to great transparent gear I would say it's probably a placebo effect.

 

[GAD]

For me I don't hear a difference that can't be reconciled with an increase in volume. Double negative - I know.

In other words, I think the sound is the same when you match the volume.

GAD

 

[Wildcard30]

I found the Low gain setting sounded best with my e500.

 

[unclejr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yokosuka Guy /img/forum/go_quote.gif I did a similar experience with Hornet by setting the gain. I thought that the SQ of Hornet changed into me depending on the setting of the gain. placebo effect? I'm sorry in strange English.

Placebo effect, essentially, is the perception of a difference due to expectation and not to an actual difference.

The head-fi definition of placebo effect is the perception of a huge difference in sound quality to justify the amount of money spent for a diminishing return

 

[oicdn]

No way it's a placebo. I listened to the same tracks for HOURS ON END. Literally around 4.5 hours on each setting. As well as having my nephew randomly switching it and not letting me know which gain it was on, in addition to keeping the volume at the same level when switching to either mode. I was bewildered by the fact of a high priced amp, soundling like **** in low gain. It should make no difference except for the output volume. But the SQ is definitly affected, WITHOUT A DOUBT.

The High gain sounds MUCH MUCH MUCH fuller and transparent. Also, the volume knob also does much more of a dramatic volume change when in high gain. i.e. the sound level is NOT the same between the two. Meaning the sound level difference from min-max on low gain, the quantitive volume changes were very subtle, almost like the knob wasn't doing much. On High gain, I could achieve the same quantative difference in volume with less than half the knob travel.

No duh that theres going to be less knob travel, but I'm saying if you could put a value on the difference between min and max volume, on the low gain, there was a span of like 5. On High gain, there was a span of like 10 between min and max. You would think the quantative amount of volume would be the same between both gain modes, the only difference being OUTPUT volume. Meaning if you had the same cans with only variences in resistance, you should have the same sound quality in low and high gain on thier respective cans.....but you won't because low and high gain sound SOOOO different. It's not just a volume change, there's definitly a change in SQ.

 

[silverrain]

Not a placebo.
I've found that on ALL my various amps, using the highest gain available on the amp, always seems to give the most dynamic SQ -- as far as I'm concerned, the higher gain allows more flexibility (headroom) to handle music's transient spikes with power to spare (= dynamic).
I have *never* found better SQ at a lower gain on any given amp.
Just my personal experience.

 

[tnmike1]

well, been about ten hours since last post and have listened for about five hours on and off with Portaphile changed to hi gain with my lo-gain IEMs. THINK I hear a difference. Psychological?? Placebo?? Dunno. But I DO like it on hi gain, esp since I also listen to Beyer 880s which should use hi gain anyway. So will keep it on hi gain for awhile.

Interesting to see it's good for Portaphile as well as the Samuels' units

 

[lan]

I prefer low gain on anything. I believe if it doesn't need it, it shouldn't have it. I thus optimize the sonics for it.

 

[mrarroyo]

The only way is to have two of the same side by side with the overall volume being the same. Otherwise your memory will play games on you. Besides a louder passage sounds better than a quiet one.

 

[Ray Samuels]

Quote:

Originally Posted by oicdn /img/forum/go_quote.gif No way it's a placebo. I listened to the same tracks for HOURS ON END. Literally around 4.5 hours on each setting. As well as having my nephew randomly switching it and not letting me know which gain it was on, in addition to keeping the volume at the same level when switching to either mode. I was bewildered by the fact of a high priced amp, soundling like **** in low gain. It should make no difference except for the output volume. But the SQ is definitly affected, WITHOUT A DOUBT. The High gain sounds MUCH MUCH MUCH fuller and transparent. Also, the volume knob also does much more of a dramatic volume change when in high gain. i.e. the sound level is NOT the same between the two. Meaning the sound level difference from min-max on low gain, the quantitive volume changes were very subtle, almost like the knob wasn't doing much. On High gain, I could achieve the same quantative difference in volume with less than half the knob travel. No duh that theres going to be less knob travel, but I'm saying if you could put a value on the difference between min and max volume, on the low gain, there was a span of like 5. On High gain, there was a span of like 10 between min and max. You would think the quantative amount of volume would be the same between both gain modes, the only difference being OUTPUT volume. Meaning if you had the same cans with only variences in resistance, you should have the same sound quality in low and high gain on thier respective cans.....but you won't because low and high gain sound SOOOO different. It's not just a volume change, there's definitly a change in SQ.

Wow man, you seem to be mad at something.
The low gain has "ALMOST" no gain, the amp acts just like a buffer, The high gain amplifys the signal 4 times.
Ray Samuels