TO TWEAK OR NOT TO TWEAK THE STAX 007A? THAT IS THE QUESTION

[spritzer]

They certainly could have changed it since all the phones I've had here were very early samples. That's what you get from the crazy Stax collectors...

The large flange is only used to keep the pads in place and the spring goes between the fabric cover and the inner, smaller flange. The new material is indeed very flimsy so I thought up a few ways to force most of the pleather material underneath the black plate and this was the best one as it is reversible. When you extend the springs they grab the sides of the pads and when combined with the new entry angle of the springs, hold them in place close to the drivers. If you put the spring inside the cloth bit it won't extend to the sides. It could work just as well though since I never tried it...

Btw. When ever I place the springs inside the pads I rotate them a few times so that they sit right. That might give better grip or something like that.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

You have me confused even further

I have the spring touching the inside surface of the cloth barrier that covers the drivers. i.e. it is is placed as deep in the layers of rings and material as you can get, and therefore closest to the ears when the pads are on the headphone.

So when the earpad is installed, the are a couple of layers of material between the spring and the black metal plate, but I have the flimsy pleather pushed into the slit in the black plate, so not only does the spring hold the earpads in place via it's connection to the grommet, but the pleather skirt also holds the pads in place.

 

[majkel]

Maybe it's just a matter of using the right generation of the amp, or a different source instead of modding? I liked very much both SR-404's and the SR-007 MkII's with the SRM-727A, there was no tonal imperfection, especially in the midrange, on any of these two. My only complaint was about the lower bass being excessive sometimes on the O2 II's. BTW, the 007t MkII sounded a bit congested for me and the lesser amps didn't impress me at all.
I'm not experienced in the electrostats but I tried several mods invented in this forum and all of them made things worse. These were for instance cable replacement in the HD25-1's for the HD650 one, or placing HD414 pads on the PX100's. I just don't understand how people obtained changes can consider as imprevement? Just because it's "brand new sound"? Sorry for the off-topic, just a late night speculations.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Incidentally, my way is how they came from the factory and provides more leverage for the spring to pull the pads tight.

 

[edstrelow]

Quote:

Originally Posted by majkel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Maybe it's just a matter of using the right generation of the amp, or a different source instead of modding? I liked very much both SR-404's and the SR-007 MkII's with the SRM-727A, there was no tonal imperfection, especially in the midrange, on any of these two. My only complaint was about the lower bass being excessive sometimes on the O2 II's. BTW, the 007t MkII sounded a bit congested for me and the lesser amps didn't impress me at all. I'm not experienced in the electrostats but I tried several mods invented in this forum and all of them made things worse. These were for instance cable replacement in the HD25-1's for the HD650 one, or placing HD414 pads on the PX100's. I just don't understand how people obtained changes can consider as imprevement? Just because it's "brand new sound"? Sorry for the off-topic, just a late night speculations.

I am by no means sure that the 007A needs any modification at all. Still, the spring mod does make an interesting tonal change, making the 007A darker with a less obvious treble/midrange peak. It does not have any obvious nasties and I am going to try it on these phones for some time.

On the other hand I felt that even though plugging the port gave better bass, other it seemed to suck some of the life and air out of the sound and I only left the plug in for a day before I yanked it out.

Speaking of other tweaks the Koss 950 has 4 ports around the driver which are much more easily accessible than the 007A (basically just take off the pads and lift off the adhesive on the foam insert over the driver .) I plugged these some years ago and left them that way for a while because they helped the bass, but have since reverted back to the stock set-up.

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict /img/forum/go_quote.gif You have me confused even further I have the spring touching the inside surface of the cloth barrier that covers the drivers. i.e. it is is placed as deep in the layers of rings and material as you can get, and therefore closest to the ears when the pads are on the headphone. So when the earpad is installed, the are a couple of layers of material between the spring and the black metal plate, but I have the flimsy pleather pushed into the slit in the black plate, so not only does the spring hold the earpads in place via it's connection to the grommet, but the pleather skirt also holds the pads in place.

The way I do it, there is only the inner (smaller) flange between the spring and the black backing plate and the angle was bent to about 85°. This made them a bit tough to install but I wanted to mimic the Mk1 setup and keep the springs as close to the drivers as possible. You could place the springs inside the loose cloth bit but then they can't extend as far outwards and make contact with the side walls of the earpads. The whole point was to take that flimsy pleather crap out of the equation so the springs grab a hold of the earpads on the leather sidewalls (so much so that you can see the shape of the springs through the leather) and the pleather is simply tucked under the black plate. I'm not sure if that made it any clearer though...

Quote:

Originally Posted by majkel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Maybe it's just a matter of using the right generation of the amp, or a different source instead of modding? I liked very much both SR-404's and the SR-007 MkII's with the SRM-727A, there was no tonal imperfection, especially in the midrange, on any of these two. My only complaint was about the lower bass being excessive sometimes on the O2 II's. BTW, the 007t MkII sounded a bit congested for me and the lesser amps didn't impress me at all. I'm not experienced in the electrostats but I tried several mods invented in this forum and all of them made things worse. These were for instance cable replacement in the HD25-1's for the HD650 one, or placing HD414 pads on the PX100's. I just don't understand how people obtained changes can consider as imprevement? Just because it's "brand new sound"? Sorry for the off-topic, just a late night speculations.

This isn't a mod in that way as my goal was to simply restore the phones to the way they should have sounded in the first place. Most of those that that have compared the Mk1 and Mk2 share my point of view that something is very wrong and needs to be fixed. You only have to look at the market for used Mk1's to see they last hours at best. The German distributor has also demanded changes to the Mk2 as they weren't happy either.

In the end it all boils down to experience and having a point of reference. If you have never heard a Mk1 then how would you know if something was off? If you've only heard the SR-Omega then how could you know that the bass is a bit loose and they don't perform well at high volume? Both these phones are excellent but without a long term comparison to the Mk1 it is impossible to to know for sure. I've owned a lot of headphones and the SR-007 mk1 has always remained the gold standard against which everything is measured.

 

[leberserkfury]

I like the stock sound just fine. Wouldn't mess with it...

 

[Elephas]

I also like the stock Mk2. I don't agree with spritzer that "something is very wrong" with it. If the Mk1 and Mk2 sound very similar to each other, how can the Mk2 be very wrong?

If the Mk2 sounds very wrong, I would hate to imagine what spritzer thinks of the Airbow SR-SC1, SR-Omega, 4070, Lambda Pro, HE90, HE60, R10, Qualia, K1000, K701, HD650, L3000, W5000, AD2000, PS-1, HP-2 ... whew, you get the point... all of which sound more different from the O2Mk1 than the O2Mk2.

I think that people should experiment with whatever modifications they want to do.

I would be willing to try some of the mods, but I'm not as brave or capable as some people.

 

[spritzer]

I think you know full well what I think of the HE90 and Lambda Pro.

I judge each headphone on their merits so while the He90 isn't worth the asking price they are by no means a bad headphone. I'd rather have a SR-Lambda or Lambda Signature then the L-Pro's but again not a bad headphone compared to all the crap out there but easily outclassed by older models.

As for the Omega's I simply hold them to a higher standard then the rest. The SR-Omega was a breakthrough product and it's flaws are minor. The SR-007 Mk1 took all the good things from the SR-Omega and made them better, more precise imaging, deeper bass, no treble etch etc. So along comes the Mk2 which should have been even better but it has a midrange honk and no real deep bass due to the massive midbass hump. There is a clear family line (extending though out all of the Stax lineup) and Stax just took a great headphone and messed it up due to some stupid design choices. The effect may be minor to you but then I guess I'm more critical then you as they are simply unusable and I can't stand them stock. They are still an SR-007 but without any real bass or that glorious midrange I just don't see the point.

 

[dvse]

Here is a picture from the Stax earpad box - we can see that indeed SR-007A pads are meant to be mounted differently, likely to reduce 'fart' by making it impossible to achieve a good seal (and this also explains the smaller spring).


By the way, I'm definitely with spritzer on the 007A vs 007 issue - the very qualities that make the headphone stand out are tampered with for no apparent reason.

 

[edstrelow]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvse /img/forum/go_quote.gif Here is a picture from the Stax earpad box - we can see that indeed SR-007A pads are meant to be mounted differently, likely to reduce 'fart' by making it impossible to achieve a good seal (and this also explains the smaller spring). .

Well I'll be d*****d!

 

[spritzer]

Where the hell did you dig that one up??

Great find and clearly shows that the Stax engineers have simply lost their minds...

I really can't see where this problem of the earpads not being deep enough came from as the SR-Ω is about the same.

 

[Elephas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think you know full well what I think of the HE90 and Lambda Pro. I judge each headphone on their merits so while the He90 isn't worth the asking price they are by no means a bad headphone.

I agree the HE90 is very expensive, but apparently it is worth it to me because I haven't sold it.

Quote:

As for the Omega's I simply hold them to a higher standard then the rest. The SR-Omega was a breakthrough product and it's flaws are minor. The SR-007 Mk1 took all the good things from the SR-Omega and made them better, more precise imaging, deeper bass, no treble etch etc.

I agree that the O2Mk1 has better imaging and deeper and better-quality bass than the SR-Omega, and its treble is smoother. However, I also think that the SR-Omega has a larger headstage, larger soundstage, a less-dark sound that has a more natural-sounding tonality to me, and greater sense of air and space.

Quote:

So along comes the Mk2 which should have been even better but it has a midrange honk and no real deep bass due to the massive midbass hump. There is a clear family line (extending though out all of the Stax lineup) and Stax just took a great headphone and messed it up due to some stupid design choices. The effect may be minor to you but then I guess I'm more critical then you as they are simply unusable and I can't stand them stock. They are still an SR-007 but without any real bass or that glorious midrange I just don't see the point.

Anytime there's a change some people like it and some people don't. I like both Mk1 and Mk2. I don't think the Mk2 is a messed up version of the Mk1. I understand that people who like the Mk1 very much might be upset by its discontinuation and the different-sounding Mk2.

But I think that being so critical of the differences between the Mk1 and Mk2 is an exaggerated perspective. If the Mk2, which sounds the most like the Mk1 than any other headphone, is so "simply unusable" and horrible, how can you listen to anything other than the Mk1?

Actually, maybe being so critical that only the Mk1 will do is good thing for the wallet: a one headphone collection.

That's not for me, though. I like listening to many different headphones and enjoying how they all sound different with a variety of music.

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elephas /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree the HE90 is very expensive, but apparently it is worth it to me because I haven't sold it.

Have you ever sold a headphone? I was like that once... never again!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elephas /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree that the O2Mk1 has better imaging and deeper and better-quality bass than the SR-Omega, and its treble is smoother. However, I also think that the SR-Omega has a larger headstage, larger soundstage, a less-dark sound that has a more natural-sounding tonality to me, and greater sense of air and space.

I've never found the SR-Ω to all that less dark then the SR-007 though I agree on the more airy soundstage. The SR-Ω has the soundstage that the He90 should have had i.e. expansive yet controlled.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elephas /img/forum/go_quote.gif Anytime there's a change some people like it and some people don't. I like both Mk1 and Mk2. I don't think the Mk2 is a messed up version of the Mk1. I understand that people who like the Mk1 very much might be upset by its discontinuation and the different-sounding Mk2. But I think that being so critical of the differences between the Mk1 and Mk2 is an exaggerated perspective. If the Mk2, which sounds the most like the Mk1 than any other headphone, is so "simply unusable" and horrible, how can you listen to anything other than the Mk1? Actually, maybe being so critical that only the Mk1 will do is good thing for the wallet: a one headphone collection. That's not for me, though. I like listening to many different headphones and enjoying how they all sound different with a variety of music.

I do have a very low tolerance for stuff I don't like so my reactions may be overblown compared to others. Still I couldn't even force myself to listen to the stock SR-007A and I didn't stop tweaking them until I found the sound I was looking for i.e. a slightly more forward Mk1 and with a bit deeper and faster bass.

 

[Elephas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spritzer /img/forum/go_quote.gif Have you ever sold a headphone? I was like that once... never again!!

I'm envious.

Hey, I sold an Ultrasone Proline 2500 once.