[pretzel]

You guys are getting me all excited about Ryerson!!!!!

So whats the weather like between August - December??
i heard its COLD??

 

[Skipinder]

I say go to Ryerson, better University (IMO), and there is a lot more stuff to do there. However, if you were to move somewhere permanently, Ottawa is better.

 

[TrevorNetwork]

Now this is my opinion, so no flames!

Toronto is not a world class city. In fact, I feel it has very few redeeming qualities as a city. It is dirty, with poor air quality. It has very little real culture, and the people feel quite cold. The city itself is ugly, with an undeveloped waterfront (bordering a major highway) on a polluted lake. It has severe traffic and smog problems. It is far from a "cosmopolitan" city. On the world scale, in ranks lowly in many aspects. It has the widest delta between rich and poor as well. Closest American city... buffalo.

 

[Wodgy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrevorNetwork Toronto is not a world class city. In fact, I feel it has very few redeeming qualities as a city. It is dirty, with poor air quality. It has very little real culture, and the people feel quite cold. The city itself is ugly, with an undeveloped waterfront (bordering a major highway) on a polluted lake. It has severe traffic and smog problems. It is far from a "cosmopolitan" city. On the world scale, in ranks lowly in many aspects. It has the widest delta between rich and poor as well. Closest American city... buffalo.

I lived in Toronto for eight months in the late '90s, and I have to say I largely agree with you. While it has its high points, the city is not a very good place to live in general. It's crowded and dirty. It also feels unsafe, even in areas you'd think would be safe. When I was living there, a set of mentally ill homeless squatters had set up permanent residence on a patch of ground right across the street from the Osgoode subway station -- literally in the core of downtown -- and they'd threaten people on their way to the subway station after dark. As far as I could tell, the police couldn't do a thing about them (due to the ludicrously liberal Canadian legal system?). The sky was almost always grey because of the smog. Due to the housing situation, almost everyone has at least an hour long commute to work, and people just generally seemed tired and irritable. Toronto is not the New York of Canada, except in the minds of Torontonians. The two cities are completely different.

Ottawa (and Montreal, which is nearby) on the other hand is gorgeous. For reasons I don't completely understand, Ottawa is almost the complete opposite of Washington, D.C. The downtown is clean and safe after hours. Despite not having a subway, the public transportation system is among the best I've seen anywhere. In the winter it is much colder than Toronto and there is more snow, but the skies are brighter.

 

[jlo mein]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aerius Just because UBC has a nudie beach behind it doesn't make it nicer.

What? UBC has a nudie beach? man ive been missing out...

sigh the sacrifices i made to go to SFU up on the mountain opposed to UBC on the water...

 

[eyeteeth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pretzel You guys are getting me all excited about Ryerson!!!!!

Ryerson is a polytechnical university not a university proper. They were lobbying to be officially considered a university and I'm not sure how that went. You can't study medicine there so I don't consider it a university. Stick with U. of T.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pretzel So whats the weather like between August - December?? i heard its COLD??

Off the top of my head:
August is summer 25-33 degrees. [Sept 20-26 degrees] [Oct 10-14 degrees] [Nov 4-7 degrees] [December minus 2-3]. December is a tough call as I consider it mild but as December approaches January the temperature can be anywhere from zero to -10. January & February are the two cold months, average being -5 to -10 and there may be a few days of -10 to -18.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrevorNetwork Toronto is not a world class city.

I consider that to be true because I am critical. New York-Paris-London...they are world class. Toronto mouthed off for awhile a few years ago about being "world Class" but these were aspirations mostly and were too much of an invitation for internal critics (yours truely

) to point out the differences between real WC and also rans. No one dares say it anymore. Although on the basis of economic & social/racial integration Toronto can be considered world class.

Quote:

It is dirty, with poor air quality.

Dirty? Dirt is relative. Toronto is the place where when movie crews need to replicate an American street scene, they put garbage on the street for authenticity. If the temperature rises into the 30s and the humidity is high apparently the air is officially considered unhealthy but I have not noticed the difference.
Air quality index
0-15 Very Good
16-31 Good
32-49 Moderate
50-99 Poor
100+ Very Poor
Today downtown Toronto is 15
http://www.airqualityontario.com/reports/summary.cfm

Quote:

It has very little real culture,

By real culture do you mean culture indigenous to the area? Aside from ridiculous politeness people generally bring their cultures from abroad and do as they please.

Quote:

and the people feel quite cold.

Well no one is walking about with the gorgeous smile of TrevorNetwork's avatar greeting all before them warmly

. People in cities are externally conservative. But ask a question and you'll get full and warm explanation of whatever the question.

Quote:

The city itself is ugly, with an undeveloped waterfront (bordering a major highway) on a polluted lake. It has severe traffic and smog problems.

The eye of the beholder reigns here. The architecture is generally unremarkable aside from the usual number of exceptions. The city is packed with trees and has many parks if you consider that ugly. I guess it can't compare with Vancouver mountains though. The undeveloped waterfront is true. This has been a political football for quite awhile with many proposals but no resolution in sight. Which of the Great lakes is not polluted?


Quote:

It is far from a "cosmopolitan" city. On the world scale, in ranks lowly in many aspects. It has the widest delta between rich and poor as well.

cosmopolitanertinent or common to the whole world: an issue of cosmopolitan import.

As the most multi-cultural city in the world and one where culures are co-existing without strife or tension, I consider Toronto "cosmopolitan".

I don't see this delta. One of the accidental benefits of developing later than our great neighbours to the south is that we could avoid some urban trends such as 'the ghetto'. I believe at some time all dwellings in Toronto must allocate a small percentage of units for lower income residents to avoid ghetto syndrome. A naturally occuring low income neighbourhood has developed in a north-western part of the city which is experiencing Jamaican on Jamaican crime. Where there are housing projects they have been intensionally made tiny and spread out. One exception built prior to the realization exists is the south-east of the city. There are about 2,500 units in Regent Park spread across 69 acres of land. All 69 acres are social housing. Another political football, it is under development. They have a web link

http://www.vibrantcommunities.ca/g2s2b.html#toronto
And they have a plan http://www.regentparkplan.ca/

Quote:

Closest American city... buffalo..

Toronto's closest American city geographically is Buffalo, but in all regards Chicago would be the closest American city. Population and economic figures are cited as is the waterfront location. Chicago is held up as a model of a similarly sized city whos infrastructure is working better than Toronto's by those who wish to improve Toronto.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wodgy It also feels unsafe, even in areas you'd think would be safe. When I was living there, a set of mentally ill homeless squatters had set up permanent residence on a patch of ground right across the street from the Osgoode subway station -- literally in the core of downtown -- and they'd threaten people on their way to the subway station after dark. As far as I could tell, the police couldn't do a thing about them (due to the ludicrously liberal Canadian legal system?).

I dare say you're too delicate Wodgy.
The uniform exchange between the panhandler who is seated non-threateningly 99% of the time and the declining passerby:
Panhandler:"spare some change sir?"
Passerby:silence
Panhandler:"thank you" sometimes "have a nice day" without sarcasm.
Real threatening

Panhandling arrived in the late 90s and it is true panhandling is not illegal but there is real annoyance politically about its development and any deviation from "thank you have a nice day" is dealt with by the police in a heartbeat. Ironically the downtown core is safer than some of the outlaying neighbourhoods.

And I don't remember the last time I didn't see someone ahead of me drop some change into the cup. Damn cold Torontonians

The last time I gave change was to a guy who asked for some change to take the subway to a new job. He was totally convincing. I gave him $2, he turned on his heel and got into the back of a taxi.

Life expectency in the unsafe, polluted, tired, uncultured, overcrowded, ugly city of Toronto? 81 years. YIKES! ""This put Vancouver and Toronto on a par with the top two OECD countries, Japan and Switzerland;" link Hmm..link's not working. another link
City ranking
Vancouver 81.1
Toronto 81.0
Victoria 80.9
Calgary 80.0
Edmonton 79.8
Québec 79.8

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrevorNetwork It has very little real culture, and the people feel quite cold.

HUH!?!?

ok, I will agree with the dirty / ugly comments... I dont live in toronto, I just work there... but no culture!?!?

 

[minya]

I loved Toronto both times I've been there. I think I'd definitely enjoy living in it. Reminded me of San Francisco but slightly bigger.

- Chris

 

[TrevorNetwork]

Vancouver:

Generally clean, great air quality, surrounded by mountains, bordered by the ocean, and its inlets. Some of the top skiing destinations on the planet, great scuba diving, most provincial parks of any province, high education, teeming with culture, Canada's only official clothing optional beach... on a University no less!

No snow for the most part, moderate termperatures, all the boutique stores from Europe without the attitude, closest american city... Seattle.

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrevorNetwork surrounded by mountains Some of the top skiing destinations on the planet most provincial parks of any province teeming with culture

well... the points I quoted here are more benifits to living in mainland BC... and can you explain to me how Vancouver is teeming with culture and Toronto is not?

 

[Zanth]

pretzel: The University of Ottawa is a better school than Ryerson, it is also, as eyeteeth put it, a full university. However, since you are considering between Carleton and Ryerson, the point is really moot. If I had a choice, I would choose U of T over any of the choices in the two cities, but then you would have to be attending U of T, which of course, means living in Toronto.

I live in Ottawa, it is incredibly beautiful, safe (actually I believe it was ranked as the cleanest and safest capital city in the world, if not this past year, it was a very recent polling).

We have an incredible amount of museums, art galleries, festivals, theatres etc. However, our night life is lacking. If you want to party, Toronto will be superior hands down. Note though...that if you live in Ottawa, you are only about an hour or so (depending on navigation and speed) to Montreal which in my opinion demolishes Toronto in nearly every respect.

Toronto is big, very big, it feels big too. It smells bad. My last trip to Toronto was in Sept 2002. Downtown smelled of urine in many many spots. This is practically unheard of in Ottawa (except in the really dodgy areas, of which there are few). What is ironic is that Toronto is always considered so very clean to Americans coming from big metros. I'm floored, I do recall how filthy NY city was...but if the rest of the spots are dirtier than Toronto, count me out! (yes I do realize this is a generalization but coming from the US Press, particularly after filming in TO and remarking on its cleanliness, needing to ADD trash to make it feel more American, I can't help but hold to that stereotype).

Toronto has better cuisine by far, though Ottawa is coming on strong. I fully believe that Montreal is leagues ahead of even Toronto on that front.

In the end it certainly is a tough call. Toronto is likely more expensive. Not positive on that (certainly more to live permanently, mortgage etc). Ottawa is by far nicer in the winter and is likely Canada's most beautiful city in the winter. Plenty to do, winter festivals, the canal (longest rink in the world) etc. It goes get cold because of the Ottawa Valley and its odd wind and moisture properties. Though it rarely reaches -30C, with the wind it feel like it and certainly -40 with wind is not unheard of for some significant stretches. Toronto is far milder, in comparison.

I would like to point out that Carleton is NOT in the boonies (it is smack in the center of Ottawa actually, but certainly not downtown like U of O is.) It is close to farm land, but this is government research fields. Genetic crops etc. Carleton is right at the end of the canal, close to one of the best bay's in the area and is on 4 major routes to downtown if need be. Important to note as well is the free bussing to the University of Ottawa so you can get downtown (though its more of a milk run than taking city transit but it is free!). You will likely buy a city transit student pass anyhow, so that is moot.

All in all, either choice would be nice. I mean, Canada is a beautiful country, Toronto is exciting and has lots to do but its large and a bit overwhelming for me...Ottawa is not as exciting but it offers lots to do, is the home of our gov, supreme court, national galleries and museums, most of our chief research facilities and is proximate to the US, Quebec and specifically Montreal.

For your field of study, Carleton is actually a strong choice. I'm not as familiar with Ryerson's faculty.

Good luck and happy decision making!

 

[minya]

Most of the criticisms of Toronto that I've read in this thread are more general "big-city" complaints rather than Toronto-specific complaints. Big cities are dirty. Parts of them smell. They're noisy. Frankly, I think they're beautiful, but I can see how some might think they're ugly. Living in a big city is a very different experience from living in a suburb or a more relaxed city (like I imagine Ottawa to be). If you like and want that experience, Toronto is a great place to be.

- Chris

 

[philodox]

I agree with you completely minya... I dont think that toronto is a bad example of a big city... its just a big city

...and thats the reason I dont live there

 

[tomek]

pretzel, where in Australia do you live?

i spent some time there and could maybe help you out.

i found Toronto and Melbourne to be quite similiar in that there seems to be a lot of cultural integration and look to the two cities.

i know a lot of Aussies make their way to Vancouver though because it's got a very 'canadian' landscape that you just don't see in Australia.

 

[pretzel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomek pretzel, where in Australia do you live? i spent some time there and could maybe help you out. i found Toronto and Melbourne to be quite similiar in that there seems to be a lot of cultural integration and look to the two cities. i know a lot of Aussies make their way to Vancouver though because it's got a very 'canadian' landscape that you just don't see in Australia.

I'm in Adelaide! Though i have been to Melbourne a couple of times.

Thank you guys So much for all the replies! very interesting read and im finding myself checking this thread as often as i can to see if anyone else has posted!! HaHa

I'm just stumped! all the talk about temperatures below zero

It never gets below 0 here,and i've never seen snow! Im shaking already!

i want to go to Toronto because Adelaide is one of the more quieter and smaller cities of Australia, and i kinda have the perception that Ottawa will be similar. I want to experience something different. But im a little afraid Toronto will be a little too overwhelming. And the talks about toronto being dirty...would it just be the same as if i go to New York or Las Angeles?

How far is naragra falls from Toronto? Thats one place i wouldn't mind going to

Montreal is a french speaking city isn't it?