Time To Stick A Fork In Minidisc and Move On?

[Nandro]

From all the posts I have seen it seems like the RH1 is a very popular MD? Hopefully I will get to try one out someday. Do these players play multiple formats or is it just MP3 and ATRAC?

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nandro /img/forum/go_quote.gif Do these players play multiple formats or is it just MP3 and ATRAC?

The RH1 plays ATRAC and MP3 files natively. It also supports uncompressed .WAV files but goes through some format formalities without introducing compression. WAV files show up on the player as PCM files. I think this is a housekeeping issue -- the audio content is transferred bit for bit. The difference is in the file container. I'm no expert on this subject, so my description may be off technically. But I'm quite sure that there is no loss of audio information in the process.

WMA files are supported, but transcoded to ATRAC. Not a problem for me -- since a horrible experience with the thieves at Rhapsody, I avoid .WMA like the plague.

AAC and HE-AAC files are also supported, but are transcoded to ATRAC (pretty sure, could be wrong about that. I don't use these formats.)

My one compatibility complaint is the absence of support for lossless CODECs. You can import files to SonicStage in ATRAC Lossless, but the lossless component of the rip is limited to computer playback only. When you transfer to the portable, it is in the form of compressed ATRAC.

There is no support at all for FLAC and SHN files. SonicStage won't import or play them, as far as I know. So you pretty much have to convert those to .WAV files and then inmport the .WAVs to SonicStage. No loss of audio quality involved, but not exactly convenient.

The inability of the player to reproduce lossless files is a double shame. Convenience suffers, certainly. More than that, lossless playback would make the most of the HiMD's 1Gb disk size. You could get roughly twice the content on the disk with no loss of SQ. This is really the only glaring deficiency in the RH1, in my opinion. Since I download a lot of live shows from archive.org, in either .FLAC or .SHN format, this is a a feature I would love to have. And it doesn't escape my notice that a number of DAPs do support lossless codecs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nandro /img/forum/go_quote.gif From all the posts I have seen it seems like the RH1 is a very popular MD?

For hardcore MD users, the RH1 was a dream come true. Very small, much improved MP3 handling, great sound, ability to move recordings to the PC digitally. OLED display is very cool (though certain info -- like artist and track name -- only displays on the remote).

The only hardware feature I miss is TOSLINK out, allowing for an external DAC. But industry politics and the **ACCURSED** RIAA have seen to the elimination of digital audio outs on virtually all portables, other than DVD units, so this one's not necessarily Sony's fault.

On the US Sony site, the RH1 is the only MD portable they are still showing.

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTE...ers&Dept=audio

There is also one home deck.

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTE...2&Dept=tvvideo


The market seems to be much healthier in Japan, if you base your assessment on the availability of a variety of models, from several different manufacturers. AudioCubes still has a pretty good selection of Japan-only models, both portable...

http://www.audiocubes.com/category/H...MiniDiscs.html

...and home decks.

http://www.audiocubes.com/category/H...dio_Decks.html

Note that among the home decks, the older, non-HiMD Denon deck has digital audio I/O (not sure about the other non-HiMDs.) The HiMD units (I think the Onkyo decks are the only ones in existence) do not have digital audio I/O.

None of the home decks, as far as I know, have USB connectors; they are strictly for audio systems.

As someone else already pointed out in this thread, you may see a bump in the number of used units showing up on eBay, Amazon, etc., probably at falling prices.

As for selling mine....well...do you remember the old Eggo waffle commercials?

 

[Rumz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nandro /img/forum/go_quote.gif From all the posts I have seen it seems like the RH1 is a very popular MD? Hopefully I will get to try one out someday. Do these players play multiple formats or is it just MP3 and ATRAC?

I was really excited about the RH1. Still love that it can upload legacy MD recordings to a PC digitally via USB. Mp3 playback is nice, and it sure looks good / has a nice form factor. That said, for listening I find it a bit bright for my tastes-- but many love its sound signature.

I have to say, the latest Sony software allows 352kbps ATRAC3plus files to be encoded and played back on Hi-MD units. I haven't done extensive A/B testing or anything, but it sounds excellent and I'd be hard pressed to tell the difference between that and lossless. But I enjoy listening to those most on Sony's flash players and the RH10.

It's a pity Hi-MD didn't take off. What would have been nice would be some legit decks and especially a car deck-- one of the nice things about Hi-MD is that you have 1gb discs that are portable... it's nice to be able to take a disc out of your player and pop it in a bookshelf unit or into a car player-- like a CD or mp3 CD only much more durable and easier to carry around.

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sant430 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I also enjoy using my RH1 for live recording. I use it primarily for my own personal bootlegs with a stealth recording setup.

I have also enjoyed using the RH1 (and several previous players) to make live recordings. But I don't go the stealth route -- I think it's fine, but I have the world's worst poker face, and I'm very paranoid about getting my stuff confiscated. So I always ask the artist and the house sound tech for permission. I have yet to be told no, but I am careful about where and when I do this. Small clubs that present up and coming or unsigned acts are a great place to start; the BS factor is smaller, and the artists are usually amenable, especially if you offer them a CD copy of the recording.

Security is also an issue. Some clubs here in NYC just seem to habitually hire a--h---s, while others hire decent people.

My live recording rig consists of an Audio Technica 822 mic (single-point stereo) ---> Sound Professionals Mic Preamp ----> RH1 via line-in jack. Using the outboard pre and the line-in jack bypasses the built-in mic pre, which actually sounds pretty good by itself.

The results, particularly with small group/acoustic stuff, are great.

 

[Sparky191]

I've used MD & HiMD for a few years. But I've dropped MD/HiMD for playback, its just too much hassle especially with SS limitations, even if it now it works most of the time. But I'm keeping my HiMD and a couple of HiMD disks for recording. Everything else is gone. The RH1 is the best MD/HiMD ever. For me though its too expensive, and you can't really use it without the remote. For all usual comments about MD/HiMD long life, you still find comments about dying lasers, and disk errors on the MD forums. So its not bullet proof either.

BTW there is HiMD bookshelf/deck
http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php?showtopic=7920

 

[SoundGoon]

What I mainly used minidisc for was recording of live music and recording or records (until I got a CD Recording Deck). I think that the MD is almost unrivaled in terms of convenience and affordability for the masses that want to record a live concert, etc. and do not have access to the "proper" equipment. I LOVE my MD player and the MD medium in general, however, it cannot compete with a 30+ gb MP3 player; there is just so much more room on the MP3 player. My plans are to get a Creative Vision eventually and keep my MD for recording rehearsals, concerts, etc., whihc I think that it is second to none for. There should be a mic input on EVERY MD recorder, and unfortunatly, there's not. If minidisc were marketed more as a portable digital recorder than a portable digital music player, I think it could revive itself. Regardless, I love my MD Player/Recorder for what I use it for.

 

[Subaru]

I still have my Sony MZ-R55 the worst battery life MD recorder that sony made.. matter of fact I just made a recording on it today.

I will agree with others here it's a hassle to carry around.. I really only take it with me if I know I will record something and thats about it.

 

[Otaku-Cyber]

isn't MD more durable than DVD or even blue ray because they have the external plastic protector cover? I think it is still a safe way to store data, or am i wrong?
I still love the MD players i got and not planning to give them up.

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otaku-Cyber /img/forum/go_quote.gif isn't MD more durable than DVD or even blue ray because they have the external plastic protector cover? I think it is still a safe way to store data, or am i wrong? I still love the MD players i got and not planning to give them up.

Minidisc still has plenty of virtues that other formats simply lack. I've got an RH1 and and an MDS-E10 component deck, and I use both of them every day.

But now that there is so much competition from whizzy PMPs and fashion accessories like the iPod, I think the game is basically up.

The saddest part to watch has been the erosion of core support for the format. Minidisc.org refers to the "twilight" of the technology, and Minidisco.com offers only the RH1 portable (with or without bundled mic, your choice) and a limited selection of component decks (although, oddly, they've just added the Tascam pro decks, which to my knowledge they haven't sold before).

Anyway, I'm sure blanks will be available for a while, and to paraphrase Charleton Heston, "You can have my minidisc when you peel my cold dead fingers..." etc, etc.

But most of all, ANYTHING BUT iPOD!!!!!!! I will not spend a cent to support Steve Jobs's evil plans for hippie-pinhead world domination. Not that I'm real fond of the Wintel axis of evil, either. I mean, I've long since gotten used to choosing the lesser of two evils in politics; why do I have to do that with technology, too? If I could support the RH1 under Linux, I'd be gone like a cool breeze.

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoundGoon /img/forum/go_quote.gif If minidisc were marketed more as a portable digital recorder than a portable digital music player, I think it could revive itself.

I agree, and Sony seems to have had the same idea, albeit belatedly. On the Sonystyle website they are now referring the the RH1 as a "field recorder": http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTE...ers&Dept=audio

You are also correct, in my opinion, in pointing out that minidisc (even the older NetMD models) still gives the best bang-for-the-buck when it comes to pro-sumer live recording.

 

[Sparky191]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Otaku-Cyber /img/forum/go_quote.gif isn't MD more durable than DVD or even blue ray because they have the external plastic protector cover? I think it is still a safe way to store data, or am i wrong? I still love the MD players i got and not planning to give them up.

http://forums.minidisc.org/index.php...78&mode=linear

Same rules apply to all data. Backup multiple copies, on different types of media, and store in more than one location.

 

[Sparky191]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrBenway /img/forum/go_quote.gif ....Minidisc.org refers to the "twilight" of the technology, a.... But most of all, ANYTHING BUT iPOD!!!!!!! I will not spend a cent to support Steve Jobs's evil plans for hippie-pinhead world domination. Not that I'm real fond of the Wintel axis of evil, either. I mean, I've long since gotten used to choosing the lesser of two evils in politics; why do I have to do that with technology, too? If I could support the RH1 under Linux, I'd be gone like a cool breeze.

The irony of this thread...

"The Decline and Fall of the MP3 Format"
http://www.technewsworld.com/story/57016.html

 

[gloco]

Old thread re-visited...

I would personally never consider the RH1 a great field recorder, due to its limited wav recording time (94 mins right? Not long enough for most concerts). The iriver line (h100/h300 series) has picked up a lot of new users due to rockbox opening it up to become a mean, lean recording machine. I use one and many other recordists do too. I used MD to record concerts (Sharp DR7) and it was a pita (the levels sucked and there was no way to digitally transfer the recording at the time). I used dat after the sharp and although it was a step in the right direction, dat was basically dead too.

MD died a premature death because Sony failed to support it properly update MD as technology moved ahead (removeable discs are so last decade). Frankly, Hi-MD should have supported multi-gig discs (2, 4, 6, 8GB). That would've allowed it to stick around much longer. Even if Sony dropped the actual MD media and used some sort of memory stick instead of discs....the actual MD unit would be much smaller and comparable to other solid state players/recorders.

 

[Sparky191]

I thought the h100/h300 series were all discontinued?

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gloco /img/forum/go_quote.gif MD died a premature death because Sony failed to support it properly update MD as technology moved ahead (removeable discs are so last decade). Frankly, Hi-MD should have supported multi-gig discs (2, 4, 6, 8GB). Old thread re-visited...

There's no point in my trying to argue with you about Sony's failure to properly support and update MD technology, because...you are right (who was it that said the truth hurts?)

That said, I do take issue with your contention that removeables are "so last decade..." Practically speaking, of course, you are right again, since there are virtually no other platforms still based on the idea. But think about it for a moment. What if Sony had delivered that 6 or 8MB cartridge, or even a 10 or 20MB? That would have been the best of both worlds: ample storage on a single disk, plus the ability to instantly swap out the cart for XMB of fresh memory on an inexpensive disk. A classic "wouldn't it have been nice," I know, but the basic idea of removeable storage is still sound, in my opinion. So I think Sony's failure to aggressively support the medium stands alone as the cause of death for MD.


Quote:

Originally Posted by gloco /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would personally never consider the RH1 a great field recorder, due to its limited wav recording time (94 mins right? Not long enough for most concerts).

That's true for uncompressed PCM recordings in MD, certainly. But you can get nearly eight hours on a single disk using ATRAC3plus 256kbps, or "Hi-SP." That allows for plenty of room to capture the meanderings of even the most diffuse jam band (sorry to be redundant <g>) while still preserving acceptable, if not lossless, SQ. For many "prosumer" applications, that's gonna be just fine. I've gotten excellent results using the higher quality ATRAC settings in conjunctions with a good mic and outboard preamp.

And just to make the whole thing look like a done deal, consider this post from ATRAC Life:

http://www.atraclife.com/2007/04/25/...-drop-walkman/

It seems that Sony plans to release a new line of flash players which support drag and drop transfer without the hated SonicStage, and -- get this, earthlings -- the new players will not support ATRAC.

Those of us who have faithfully continued to warm our hands on the dying embers of ATRAC can only ask one question:

Et Tu, Sony?