Time To Stick A Fork In Minidisc and Move On?

[DrBenway]

This is the most recent post from Minidisc.org:

Google Ads on Minidisc.org. Starting today we will be adding Google adsense banners to the website. We apologize to our loyal following for this additional intrusion. The Minidisc format seems to have entered twilight and the Google ads are an attempt to sustain advertising revenue without being overly invasive. Minidisco is still our primary sponsor and we thank them kindly for that. That adsense banners will eventually appear on all pages, as a single banner across the top. Your comments are welcome. -Eric Woudenberg

As a ten+ year minidisc user, I've known that this was coming for some time. Obviously, MD has been a niche market for a number of years. But when I see gloomy pronouncements like the above (boldface added by me for emphasis) originating from the community's main gathering place, I take a deep breath.

I am still quite happy with my MD, currently an RH1. But I'm starting to ask myself how long I'll be able to get blanks, batts, repair/exchange, etc. When I bought my last unit, the retailer stocked not a single MD case; I had to settle for a digital camera bag. Not optimal. Since market penetration was so much higher in Japan, I suspect imports will remain an option, or at least I hope so.

But I ask you, Head-fiers: Is Minidisc finally, really dead?

 

[gloco]

MD has been dead for years, imho. The cons far outweigh the pros. Once HD based daps came around, MD became irrevelant for me and many others.

 

[camille]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gloco /img/forum/go_quote.gif MD has been dead for years, imho. The cons far outweigh the pros. Once HD based daps came around, MD became irrevelant for me and many others.

QFT

I simply could not justify my MD gear while I currently was using iPod at the time. MD simply was not for me at all even when I first got an MD recorder in '03.

There is still a market in used (Hi-)MD gear. However, the asking price for some legacy gear has significantly dropped.

 

[stevesurf]

I believe MDs will continue to be alive and well, though obviously purchased in lower volumes and primarily used at concerts. Now is actually the best time to begin stocking up, as the prices have dropped a bit and manufacturers Sony and TDK will most likely be ramping down production as demand wanes.

I will personally hold onto both my MD and NetMD, as both are very convenient recorders. You don't need a computer to record on an MD!

 

[j-dawg]

As a portable music solution for the everyday joe? Dead as a doornail. I think the RH-1/MZM-200 has a shot at being a solid prosumer field recorder. For what it's intended to do, I don't think you could find a better more cost-effective solution. (Well, at least until flash memory prices come down to around $6/Gb - the price of a single HiMD) It just can't touch a good DAP as a convenient portable music solution for the masses.

 

[Nandro]

Sound quality wise how do MD's compare to DAPS? Are they about equal when using lossless? I have always wanted to try a MD to see the SQ difference and was thinking of trading my iPod Photo as I have a video one just to see how they compare.

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nandro /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sound quality wise how do MD's compare to DAPS? Are they about equal when using lossless? I have always wanted to try a MD to see the SQ difference and was thinking of trading my iPod Photo as I have a video one just to see how they compare.

Before I respond to your question fully, I should point out that while HiMD players can play uncompressed audio, they cannot play lossless. Sony ATRAC Lossless actually generates a file with two images of the encoded music -- a lossless component playable only on the computer, and an ATRAC compressed component (don't recall the bit rate) that can be transferred to the player.

So the only way to make a head-to-head comparison between HiMD and DAP at the highest possible SQ level is to talk about performance with uncompressed files.

When playing uncompressed files, there is no theoretical reason a DAP can't sound as good or better than a minidisc. In fact, under proper circumstances, a DAP should sound as good as a CD. As far as the bits on the disc, uncompressed is uncompressed, and any difference in the sound should come from how those bits find their way, in analog form, into your ear. If you are storing uncompressed audio, it matters not at all whether the medium is a hard drive, a CD, or a minidisc.

The final SQ has to do with the compromises that are or are not made in the chain that links the storage media to your eardrums.

Here's where the fun begins; this is also where my patently anti-iPod bias reveals itself (Hey, at least I'm not trying to B.S. you). The iPod's designers have to make several tradeoffs on their way to a final product. These tradeoffs affect sound.

First of all, it takes juice to spin a hard drive, as evidenced by how critical an issue batt life has been for the iPod and other DAPs. It also takes juice to amplify a signal sufficiently to drive decent headphones. So Apple's designers "rob Peter to pay Paul" by starving the headphone jack to conserve power for that hungry little hard drive. The result? Better batt life, at substantial sonic cost.

Second, iPods are complex devices that contain some fairly expensive components. In order to keep the price down, less-than-steller electronics go into the box. For a great discussion of how this can be ameliorated, see the Red Wine Audio "I-Mod," discussed in detail on the Red Wine site. Essentially, the iMod upgrades the audio components of the iPod by, among other things, ditching the built-in amp entirely in favor of a line-level output. There are quite a few other changes (silver wire among them), but you get the idea.

To get a line-out signal from the stock iPod, you have to go through the bottom conector via a dock, which pretty much means you can't use the lineout while you are walking around. You are restricted to plugging in an external amp to the headphone jack. The HiMd portables have a lineout setting that routes the signal through the headphone jack (whether this is a true lineout is a subject of some controversy, but I have always gotten decent sound this way.)

Another advantage of minidisc is the durability that comes from the absence of that pesky little hard drive. You may get away with dropping an iPod once, but probably not twice. I've dropped MD units many times (though I don't recommend it), and while the accumulated shocks may have eventually killed one or two of them, I've never had an MD fail after just one or two drops. Obviously this drawback is neatly solved by the Nano, with its flash storage.

On the other hand, uncompressed audio takes up *a lot* of space. A 1GB HiMD disk can store about 90 minutes of audio; that's nothing compared to what you can fit uncompressed onto an 80 GB hard disc. Running uncompressed on a HiMD unit means carrying around multiple disks if you want to have even a modicum of choice in what to listen to.

So now that I've run on for this many paragraphs, I quess it comes down to this. An iPod potentially sounds as good as a minidisc, a CD, or any other kind of portable. But in the real world, minidisc design paid much more attention to SQ right out of the box. My RH1 sounds fantastic, without needing to be modded in any way.

But the handwriting is clearly on the wall. I'm sentimental about the end of this era, because minidisc was my introduction to portable digital music, and it has served me beautifully for more than a decade. I nevertheless know that my next player will probably be either flash or hard disc based. I've even caught myself eyeing the older Cowon players, because of the consistent raves that they get for sound quality. Now that sounds like a DAP I could live with.

Anyway, sorry for the rant. Frankly, none of this means jack compared to the horrors of a war-torn world full of starving children and squandered potential. It is only because we live in this wonderful country that we have the time to consider things like audio.

But it is something I have been passionate about...

 

[Rumz]

Been an MD user since 99... still have a soft spot for it, but it's simply inconvenient compared to an HDD DAP. I'd also debate the merit of the above argument about Apple canibalizing the iPod's amp output in favor of battery life-- that's Sony's game, how on earth do you think they got those NetMD units to get over 100 hours of batterly life?

Having used both I feel like the iPod has a stronger amp, even if there's an absolute lack of usable EQ on the iPod (IMO, of course). In any case, I find my MD units do indeed have a different sonic signature than my 5.5g iPod-- I've grown to prefer the iPod's less colored sound (whilst letting the headphones color or EQ the sound). I find the NH1 and RH1 to be a bit too bright for my tastes though I do like the sound of the RH10.

I agree with others' sentiments in this thread... as a portable audio solution, MD is a dying niche market, but will probably stick around for a while at least as a sort of portable recording solution.

 

[Nandro]

The only part you got wrong was that you can get line out of the iPod without the dock. I use a Sik Ram Din cable and others make them as well. I use it to go directly to my total bithead which sounds great. Anyone of you MD users want to do a trade for an equal value MD player for a 60G iPod photo? I really am interested in the sound quality, and being the nerd I am I love to play with the less popular obscure equiptment. I would even consider a cross loan just to try it out. I just never see MD units for sale in the forums. The people who buy them must keep them for life.

 

[sant430]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nandro /img/forum/go_quote.gif ......... The people who buy them must keep them for life.

quite true for me....check my sig

 

[Nandro]

Have one you would trade for a LD II or X-Cans amp? LOL... cant pry those things off people. I guess it's a love em or hat em type deal huh?

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nandro /img/forum/go_quote.gif The only part you got wrong was that you can get line out of the iPod without the dock. I use a Sik Ram Din cable and others make them as well. I use it to go directly to my total bithead which sounds great.

I didn't realize that. But that's why I hang out here. Thanks for the correction.

As for your comment that The people who buy them must keep them for life.? One word: Yup!

Seriously though, I realize that MD has been on the downward slope for some time now, and I understand that I do have a DAP in my future, in all likelihood. Part of my sadness grows out of watching Sony self destruct. Minidisc has been around for what? Fifteen years? And they let a company with no consumer electronics experience come along and eat their lunch? How very sad. Sony screwed up, literally, at every turn. But waiting as long as they did to put a USB port on the freakin' thing was probably what sealed it. Not to mention several generations of transfer software that bordered on unuseable.

But every time I use my RH1 as a field recorder, I still get so much pleasure from this great device. For that use, it will continue to be my go-to technology. And until I decide on my next move, the RH1 will continue to serve me well as my day-to-day portable player.

 

[sant430]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nandro /img/forum/go_quote.gif Have one you would trade for a LD II or X-Cans amp? LOL... cant pry those things off people. I guess it's a love em or hat em type deal huh?

I do love my md units!! Nonetheless, check your pm box

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrBenway /img/forum/go_quote.gif I didn't realize that. But that's why I hang out here. Thanks for the correction. As for your comment that The people who buy them must keep them for life.? One word: Yup! Seriously though, I realize that MD has been on the downward slope for some time now, and I understand that I do have a DAP in my future, in all likelihood. Part of my sadness grows out of watching Sony self destruct. Minidisc has been around for what? Fifteen years? And they let a company with no consumer electronics experience come along and eat their lunch? How very sad. Sony screwed up, literally, at every turn. But waiting as long as they did to put a USB port on the freakin' thing was probably what sealed it. Not to mention several generations of transfer software that bordered on unuseable. But every time I use my RH1 as a field recorder, I still get so much pleasure from this great device. For that use, it will continue to be my go-to technology. And until I decide on my next move, the RH1 will continue to serve me well as my day-to-day portable player.

I also enjoy using my RH1 for live recording. I use it primarily for my own personal bootlegs with a stealth recording setup. I do have to admit that I still need to break out the RH1 to find which of my amps and headphones will synergize the best with them since I don't use it as a portable player nowhere near as much as i used to.

 

[jant71]

I still use my MZ-G750 since it has an AM tuner. Otherwise, I have pretty much left MD behind. Sony hindered the format too much. They just don't get it. The only thing their DRM/Proprietary crap stops is people buying their products.

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jant71 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sony hindered the format too much. They just don't get it. The only thing their DRM/Proprietary crap stops is people buying their products.

Sony opened a hole in their own defenses big enough for Apple to drive a truck through. And that truck was full of iPods.

Sony's decline is a clear example of what can happen when one hand sells content and the other hand sells consumer electronics...one hand does know what the other is doing, and it doesn't like it one bit. But this doesn't seem to have hindered Apple, does it? Content drives hardware sales, and that's fine with them. Sony, unfortunately, is trying to compete in the 21st century, while clinging to 20th century verities.